From: Dutch <no@email.com>
Subject: Re: Where Are All Our Wingnuts?
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Subject: Re: Where Are All Our Wingnuts?
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From: Dutch <no@email.com>
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On 2/3/2018 10:00 PM, Clave wrote:
> On 2/3/2018 9:19 PM, Dutch wrote:
>> On 2/3/2018 7:50 PM, Clave wrote:
>>>> And yes, I am aware that "collusion" per se, in and of itself is not 
>>>> a crime.
>>>
>>> The obstruction *IS* the collusion.
>>
>> I don't follow. The Trump campaign colluded with Russia, i.e. 
>> *illegally* exchanged promises to drop sanctions in exchange for the 
>> release of *illegally obtained* damaging information about Clinton, 
>> then subsequently the Trumpsters have, in a variety of ways, worked to 
>> *illegally* obstruct the investigation into it. There appears to me to 
>> be separate and independent sets of crimes.
> 
> There is no such crime as "collusion."

I know, I didn't call it a crime.
> 
> There currently exists no (public) proof of the quid pro quo you allege 
> regarding sanctions.  Correlation is not proof of causation, although 
> there are hot bullet shells all over the floor.

afaik Flynn admitted it. It also appears that he is admitting that he 
cleared it with the Whitehouse.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBXk-Ybe09U
It all tracked with weird mutual conciliatory 'wink-wink' public 
statements by Putin and Trump.

> 
> What we *DO* know is that obstruction of justice has happened, and is 
> still happening.  The T-Rump campaign, transition and administration 
> have all been complicit, and now the majority of the GOP is as well.
> 
> That much is beyond rational debate.
> 
> Russia helped put this clown in office, and obstructing the 
> investigation and prosecution of that, all by itself given the magnitude 
> it now possesses, is enough quid pro quo to satisfy not only any 
> reasonable definition of "collusion", but should be enough to satisfy 
> any reasonable juror of "obstruction of justice."
> 
> "Treason" comes later.
>