From: Dutch <>
Subject: Re: Where Are All Our Wingnuts?
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Subject: Re: Where Are All Our Wingnuts?
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On 2/4/2018 1:03 AM, Clave wrote:
> On 2/4/2018 12:58 AM, Dutch wrote:
>> On 2/4/2018 12:27 AM, Clave wrote:
>>> On 2/4/2018 12:08 AM, Dutch wrote:
>>>> On 2/3/2018 11:53 PM, Clave wrote:
>>>>> On 2/3/2018 11:32 PM, Dutch wrote:
>>>>>> On 2/3/2018 10:00 PM, Clave wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2/3/2018 9:19 PM, Dutch wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2/3/2018 7:50 PM, Clave wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> And yes, I am aware that "collusion" per se, in and of itself 
>>>>>>>>>> is not a crime.
>>>>>>>>> The obstruction *IS* the collusion.
>>>>>>>> I don't follow. The Trump campaign colluded with Russia, i.e. 
>>>>>>>> *illegally* exchanged promises to drop sanctions in exchange for 
>>>>>>>> the release of *illegally obtained* damaging information about 
>>>>>>>> Clinton, then subsequently the Trumpsters have, in a variety of 
>>>>>>>> ways, worked to *illegally* obstruct the investigation into it. 
>>>>>>>> There appears to me to be separate and independent sets of crimes.
>>>>>>> There is no such crime as "collusion."
>>>>>> I know, I didn't call it a crime.
>>>>> What does "illegally" mean to you then?
>>>> The illegality is not simply colluding with a foreign power, but how 
>>>> they did it.
>>> *boggle*
>> It's not complicated. It's not illegal to collude to obtain 
>> information on your opponent. If however you collude to get 
>> information that you know was obtained as the result of a crime that 
>> makes you an accessory to that crime. And, if in the process of 
>> colluding you make an illegal promise then you are committing a crime.
> Goshthanks, I didn't know any of that obvious stuff.
> Even though I said as much myself a post or two ago.

Your comment was "The obstruction *IS* the collusion.", which is wrong, 
unless you mean to say that through their collusion they obstructed a 
fair election.

Crimes were committed while the Trump team was colluding with the 
Russians, these were not obstruction. Then obstruction of justice crimes 
were committed afterwards during the investigation. Those crimes do not 
prove the earlier crimes.

> We're done here.  Again.

Fine by me.