From: Dutch <>
Subject: Re: This is why Dutch hates Canada
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Subject: Re: This is why Dutch hates Canada
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Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2018 02:14:57 -0800
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On 2/8/2018 1:38 AM, BillB wrote:
> On Thursday, February 8, 2018 at 12:45:31 AM UTC-8, Dutch wrote:
>> Calling someone a racist is name calling.
> Calling a pig a pig is not "name calling", it is describing reality, which is what I did here.

Bad analogy. To satisfy that analogy you would have to use the term 
"people" or "human beings", "Britishers" or something, a pig is a pig is 
not a judgement.

> There people PACKED UP AND SOLD THEIR HOUSES because they saw some Muslims on the street. If you
can't accept that those are racists you are totally divorced from reality. Being "uncomfortable"
around people simply because they are different from you is a the hallmark of a racist.

That's bullshit, that's not what racism is, and it goes far deeper than 
that. The local pubs had to shut down for lack of business. The new 
people don't mix with the Britishers. There's no longer any social cohesion.

>>>    England is more than just an island in the
>>>> North Sea. It, and its people are the source of the language,
>>>> government, laws and culture that we enjoy, and specifically of that
>>>> country.
>>> What does that have to do with being a racist?
>> More name calling.
> So you have nothing? What justified their racism? Why did they move away? What did the Muslims do
to them?

Read the stories, they are keeping to themselves and imposing their 
culture in this area where people have lives for generations.

>>> So you propose a heirarchy of first and second class citizens? How very Nazi of you. I would
expect no less.
>> No, I expect newcomers to an ancient culture to bend over backwards to
>> respect the culture of the people who have invited them into their
>> country
> So you are holding them to a different standard of behavior than anyone else.

No, the people there already respect the culture. Newcomers should meet 
the old timers halfway at least, if there is going to be a community.

>> , to try really hard to fit in,
> Try to "fit in" how? Do they have to watch hockey at least once a week? Speak English at least 30%
of the time? Convert to Christianity? Start drinmking like a fish and abusing women? Be specific.

They're human beings, they should be able to figure it out, every other 
culture does.

>> Instead they
>> expect to be accommodated and have all their complaints heard.
> So you want this group not to be able to complain like "real" citizens, but you wouldn't call it a
second class of citizen?  You want to take away their constitutional right to speech and peaceful
protest, is that correct? But IN NO WAY does that make them second class. Not in Dutch's world.

I am simply noting that it is always Muslims who have this great 
difficulty integrating. The reason is either they don't want to, and 
polls have shown that many don't, and/or their culture is simply 

>> OMG, you can't even admit to being uncomfortable without being branded a
>> racist. Talk about fascism.
> Why would you be uncomfortable if you aren't racist?

Why would being uncomfortable make you racist? A racist believes that 
other races are inferior. Muslims are not even a race.

> I didn't see anything there that made me uncomfortable. They inteviewed white racists who were
"uncomfortable" seeing Muslims walk down the street. If you can't see that as racism, it can only be
because you are one too.

They didn't say that. That march was loud and aggressive. It would 
disturb anyone.

>>> You just finished saying yesterday that the whole concept of multiculturalism is "redundant"
because it is already encompassed by existing Canadian values. Now you say multiculturalism is a
failed idea, therefore you are saying Canadian values are a failed idea.
>> Circular nonsense.
> It's not circular at all. If multiculturalism is just an amalgamation of preexisting Canadian
values, and you think multiculturalism has "failed", then you must have a problem with the
underlying values. So why DO you hate Canada?

I have a problem with having a government dictate how I think, presuming 
that Canadians are unwelcoming to other cultures unless ordered by the 
government. I'm accepting, but I also demand that Canadian values are 
respected by other cultures before they get my respect. They won't get 
it because I was ordered by the government, not ever. It's a ridiculous 
and naive idea.

>   We don't have the effects of "multiculturalism" in
>> Canada because the Muslim population is too small to be a problem.
>'s approaching 10% in Toronto, one of the most desirable cities in the world. Now you're
going to tell  me Toronto isn't a multicultural city?? GTFO Dutch. Your bigotry traps you into
talking like a fool.

"When in Rome.."
> Other
>> cultures naturally adapt to one another. Islam is rigid and suspicious
>> of non-Muslims.
>>> What do you don't seem to grasp is that IT DOESN'T MATTER if you like multiculturalism or not.
Nobody gives a fuck what "Dutch" thinks. Multiculturalism is the law of the land, and Canadians felt
so strongly about it that we entrenched it in our Constitution. You can try to organize a
Constitutional amendment, but I think we both know that is never going to happen. Your next best
option is to leave Canada and go live somewhere where the prevalent culture fosters and supports
bigoted attitudes like yours. You are simply not welcome here. Muslims are.

What you don't grasp is that it doesn't matter if you fetishize 
"Multiculturalism" or not, it will ultimately lead to divisions and 
problems. There is plenty of anti-Muslim sentiment in Toronto and other 
places, and if you're looking for the reasons, I'd list the number one 
reason as resentment against imposed "Multiculturalism", reluctance of 
Muslims to adapt and modify their strange (to non-Muslims) customs, and 
least of all, racism.

>> "Multiculturalism" is bullshit and is meaningless in the context of
>> Canada in this particular era. Canada welcomes other cultures and in
>> return people of other cultures *fit in* and find their niche where can
>> maintain aspects of their own culture and thrive within Canada. That has
>> always been the nature of Canada and Canadians, we didn't a fucking
>> government decree to make it that way. Having a country where cultures
>> get along and respect each other is what we need and what we have. And
>> new cultures to the country are welcome as long as they respect Canadian
>> values and other cultures.
>> You and Justin can shove your government decrees up each others' asses.