From: Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com>
Subject: Re: Lightroom CC
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On Oct 23, 2017, Davoud wrote
(in article <231020172212265238%star@sky.net>):

> Tony Cooper:
> > The following are observations and comments on the new Lightroom CC
> > and not at all criticisms. Each of us who use Lightroom have our own
> > workflow that we've become used to and a requirement to change that
> > workflow is usually not viewed well. And, each of us has different
> > needs.
>
> I have been in a secret underground bunker for some time as a beta
> tester for Lightroom Classic CC and Lightroom CC. I thought of myself
> as a representative of the advanced-amateur cohort. I bought Lightroom
> when it first appeared and ran it alongside Aperture. I saw the
> handwriting on the wall long before Apple discontinued Aperture and
> transitioned to Lightroom for all of my asset management and
> pre-processing well before Apple discontinued Aperture.

I too have been a Lightroom user since day one, and I am a subscriber to the 
Adobe Photography Plan.

Due to your role as a beta tester, I am hoping you can provide some insight 
as to a few of the new Lightroom CC quirks. I will ask a question or two as I 
work through your reply to Tony.
>
> Even so, I don't yet have a complete handle on how I will use the two
> new apps together. I know how they work, learned some of Adobe's
> thinking, even accepted the mistake Adobe made in naming the apps, but
> I haven't settled on a personal workflow.

That is my dilemma, and after looking at this interview, I suspect that Adobe 
never intended for Lightroom Classic CC, and Lightroom CC to work together,
<>
>
> Executive summary: Your points make sense, but readers should bear in
> mind that Lightroom CC is four days old. It's version 1. I doubt that
> anyone has mastered all of the ins and outs at this point. much less
> settled on a workflow. Let's see what it looks like a year from now.

I believe that there are going to be frequent updates to refine the mobile &  
Lightroom CC workspace. I also understand that for the most part it will run 
as a separate entity to the Photography Plan LR Classic CC/ Photoshop CC 2018 
workspace.
>
> > I have no particular need for, or interest in, access to LR from more
> > than one work station. But, I downloaded LR CC and gave it a run.
>
> Why not give it a run! The new Lightroom CC is included in your
> subscription. I have the need to run Lightroom and Photoshop from
> multiple machines. I have a license for Adobe CC (all apps) on two
> iMacs and a license for Adobe Photography Plan (Lightroom Classic CC,
> Lightroom CC, and Photoshop) on two MacBook Pros.

I am trying to be fair, and intend to give it a good workout, but I have my 
original LR C CC/PS CC + Mobile apps workflow as a very imbedded, and for me, 
reflexive process. Due to that there is much I am not comfortable with when 
working with new Lightroom CC, both as a desktop, and on my iPad Pro.
>
> For those who have a problem with the subscription scheme, tough luck.
> Go elsewhere. Top-tier editing with Photoshop and now two versions of
> Lightroom (three counting the mobile app) is an absolute bargain at
> $9.99 per month, less for students and some others.
>
> > Some of the differences between LR CC and LR Classic baffle me. I
> > don't understand why Adobe created these differences.
>
> The important thing for people to understand is that Lightroom Classic
> CC is the *same* Lightroom that they have known and loved, but with a
> new and possibly confusing name and with improved performance and added
> features. Nothing changes in file handling, including the ability to
> send selected photos to the cloud for viewing and editing on your iPad.

That much I get.
>
> Adobe took a lot of guff from beta testers in the Prerelease Forum on
> product naming. In a nutshell, they gave the old app a new
> name‹Lightroom CC renamed to Lightroom Classic CC‹and they gave the new
> app the old name‹Lightroom CC. That has a lot of folks baffled and up
> in arms from the start. Beta testers were in communication with
> techies, not marketing wonks, and the techies insisted that the names
> were locked in and not subject to discussion. So be it. I'd have named
> the new app "Lightroom Mobile CC."
>
> The official forums are at
> <https://forums.adobe.com/community/lightroom>. At that URL the
> Lightroom forum splits: "All-new Lightroom CC" and "Lightroom Classic
> CC." Adobe forums are worth joining, IMO. One thing you will find is
> knee-jerk reaction. People were declaring within *an* *hour* of release
> of the two new apps that Adobe would be out of business soon, Adobe had
> abandoned them, they were abandoning Adobe, you-name-it. It could be
> the naming issue, but some seemed not to realize that Lightroom Classic
> CC is just a new version of Lightroom and the new app, Lightroom CC,
> can be ignored by those who don't want their photos in the cloud for
> one reason for another, or, as I call them, "those who don't get that
> the mobility offered by the cloud is the wave of the future." All
> Lightroom CC photos are in the cloud; that's not optional. There is an
> option to keep them on a local drive as well. At the moment I'm feeding
> Lightroom CC (and thus, the cloud) selected photos from Lightroom
> Classic CC, so there is no issue for me; Lightroom Classic CC leaves
> your photos where you put them; cloud sync in Classic CC is optional,
> as it has been for some time. Remove the photos from the cloud, stop
> using Lightroom CC, and the photos remain in place in Lightroom Classic
> CC.
>
> There is no substitute for Photoshop, Linux GIMP fans notwithstanding
> (if they needed pro-level photo management and editing they wouldn't be
> on Linux!). There are a number of apps similar to Lightroom, but those
> of us who do not own $50k PhaseOne cameras are more likely to stick
> with the well oiled Lightroom-Photoshop machine than to switch to
> Capture One Pro, e.g., a subscription to which costs up to twice as
> much per month as the Adobe Photography plan. (Though I have been
> tempted to get a three-month plan for Capture One Pro @ $30 per month,
> just to see what the fuss is about.)
>
> I don't do knee-jerk. I'm not concerned that I haven't yet decided on a
> workflow for the two apps; there is no deadline, and with winter coming
> I'll have plenty of time on my hands. One thing I've had fun with in
> Lightroom CC is its ability to quickly create web albums, either flat
> or as web pages with a bit of formatting. Here's one such page from my
> MacBook Pro license
> <https://lightroom.adobe.com/shares/72305aa6d3e441f89b16bdaae95457d4&...
> and another from my iMac library
> <https://lightroom.adobe.com/shares/8f654d9fef354c428b68370c00e580c7&...
> Quick and dirty, great for showing clients, family and friends.
>
> Lightroom CC on an iPad Pro is neat-o. Seems to have virtually all of
> the editing features of Lightroom CC on the desktop. As iPads become
> more powerful, Lr for iOS will be awesome.

Lightroom CC on my 10.5” 512GB iPad Pro is somewhat different to the older 
Lightroom Mobile, but I have figured out many of the editing features 
including getting the selective editing to work to my expectations.

I have several issues with regard to the LR CC storage which you might be 
able to resolve for me.

As a subscriber, and user of the Classic Adobe CC Cloud storage I am familiar 
with having access to the Web interface, and the desktop Creative Cloud Files 
folder. Now that I am testing Lightroom CC, and have imported several RAW 
image files I can find no way to manage those files in the way that was 
possible before. No web access, and no Lightroom CC files folder. The test 
RAW files are not shown in my CC File storage.

Are there equivalent Lightroom CC Cloud file folders, or web access to manage 
that storage.

Not all of the Lightroom CC users are going to have a laptop to use when 
travelling, or even access to a desktop, just mobile devices.

My old Mac laptops, a 17” G4, and a 17” MBP are beyond supporting current 
Adobe products,I don’t have plans to buy a new laptop, a new desktop Mac, 
yes, new lenses, yes, but not a new MBP. So my travel computing are my iPhone 
and my iPad Pro. Unfortunately neither one of those will permit direct import 
of RAW files when using the Apple Camera Kit, or WiFi from my cameras. I can 
import JPEGs to the camera roll, and those are still auto imported to LR CC 
(mobile) and synced with my desktop, now LR Classic CC (would that be LR-C 
CC?) all without issue.

I can only import RAW files into new desktop/laptop LR CC with corresponding 
Smart Previews showing in my iPad for editing. So when on a road trip I have 
no way to move RAW files to the Lightroom CC cloud storage, and I am left 
with doing things the way I always have. That throws a wrench into the 
concept of storing all originals in the Lightroom CC Cloud.

I can see that I am probably going to have to use my ColorSpace UDMA for RAW 
backup on-the-road, and the old mobile system for on-the-road editing and 
sharing. That leaves RAW import into LR-C CC as something to do when I get 
home.
>
>
> Yes, the Photography Plan includes only 20GB of cloud space and the
> full plan includes 100GB. That's not a lot for people whose libraries
> run to terabytes. Even me, an amateur with a terabyte library.
> Additional space may be rented with the plan, up to 10GB, I believe it
> is. The full plan with the stock 100GB is $50 per month. With 2 TB it's
> $70 per month and with 10TB it's $150. The Photography Plan is $30 for
> 2TB, $110 for 10TB.

Does that 2TB for $30 include the cost of the basic Photography Plan?

I am more inclined to rent additional original plan storage.
>
> No, the Lightroom apps cannot sync to cloud services other than
> Adobe's. Users are free to back-up manually to any service they want,
> however.
>
> My advice: play with Lightroom CC, learn if it fits into your workflow.
> Don't give up on it after the first hour. If it's not for you, you
> haven't lost anything. Watch and see what it becomes in future. There's
> always the possibility that it will become nothing at all, if users are
> not ready for the cloud!

That is exactly what I am doing, and I intend to continue testing it. 
However, for now I just cannot see myself clear to fully adopt, or even 
integrate Lightroom CC into my workflow.

....but I am not going to throw it out just yet.

-- 

Regards,
Savageduck