From: Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com>
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
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Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2017 11:03:45 -0800
From: Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com>
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Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
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On Nov 7, 2017, PeterN wrote
(in article<otstch02d2i@news4.newsguy.com>):

> On 11/6/2017 4:27 PM, Savageduck wrote:
> > On Nov 6, 2017, PeterN wrote
> > (in article<otqb0n0l5s@news4.newsguy.com>):
> >
> > > On 11/6/2017 12:21 PM, Savageduck wrote:
> > > > On Nov 6, 2017, PeterN wrote
> > > > (in article<otpvla02a2u@news7.newsguy.com>):
> > > >
> > > > > On 11/5/2017 1:11 AM, Savageduck wrote:
> > > >
> > > > <<Snip>>
> > > >
> > > > > > Just go with a filter wrench, that is what they are designed for, and
> > > > > > forget
> > > > > > the hare-brained schemes.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yep.
> > > > > The only filters I now use are: ND; variable ND; CP; and a variable fog.
> > > > > I carry filter wrenches in my bag at all times, although I haven't had a
> > > > > stuck filter in over ten years.
> > > >
> > > > When it comes to screw on filters I have ND, CPF, and only one Variable
> > > > ND.
> > > > I
> > > > have not been impressed with the variable ND, and it doesn’t get that
> > > > much
> > > > use. Most recently I bought a few of the Hoya Solas IRND filters.
> > > >
> > > > <https://hoyafilterusa.com/product/hoya-solas-irnd-2/>
> > >
> > > The variable ND allows me to compose without having to attach the filter
> > > later.
> >
> > That was my intention. However, I found that the Vari ND is susceptible to
> > many of the issues that can be found with a CPF if you have the wrong angle
> > of incidence. The worst of these is the cross polarization phenomenon. That
> > is something which doesn’t happen with an ND, or ND Grad.
>
> Before I got the variable ND, I used tow polarized filters, one linear
> and the other my CP. It worked fine a lot of the time. But, under
> certain lighting conditions there was internal flare. Also, unlike good
> quality ND filters, polarizing filters can cause a color shift.
>
> I use a Heliopan.
> <https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/765517-REG/Heliopan_707790_77...
> Neutral_Density.html>
>
> >
> > > I only use the fixed ND when it is very bright. It is a ten stop.
> >
> > A 10 stop ND is a pretty serious ND, you should only need it if you are
> > trying to slow down the shutter speed for a long exposure, smooth out water
> > in waterfalls, or surf, or add movement to clouds, and/or if you are trying
> > to control DoF, especially if shooting wide open in bright light.
>
> Spot on. BTW there are other methods for smoothing water. multiple
> exposure works fine. You can get a nice silky effect from many
> waterfalls by shooting 1/5 to 1/50 of a second, depending on conditions
> and your taste.
> >
> > With a 10 stop ND you will not be able to focus with the filter in place, so
> > you should be focusing manually, and then attach the 10 ND filter. With
> > screw on ND filters I have 2 stop, 4 stop, and 9 stop. I cannot focus with the 9
> > stop in place. I have a 10 stop Lee.
> >
> > Also if it is very bright, there are other steps you can take rather than
> > resorting to a 10 stop ND, consider shooting at ISO 100, or ISO 200 and st a
> > higher shutter speed, along with a more reasonable ND, somewhere in the 2-6
> > stop area.
> > >
> > > In another post I mentioned that I was advised by B&H not to purchase an
> > > item. It was any of the Lee type filters. I had wanted to get a
> > > graduated ND filter. Watchagonnado.
> >
> > What “Lee type filters”?
>
> The sales rep made it clear that no plastic filter would give me the
> satisfactory results.

As much as the sales rep was helpful, this might have been one area where his 
knowledge was limited by personal bias, or limited knowledge of the latest 
advances in filter tech.

Not all the rectangular/square filters are ‘plastic’, and the quality of 
the optical resin, not plastic filters used by the best of those systems are 
pretty good, and those systems should not suffer a blanket condemnation 
because of a sales ref’s opinion. They provide a solution where none exists 
for screw on filters.

Consider these ‘glass' filters made by Lee &  others:

<http://www.leefilters.com/index.php/camera/proglass-nd>

<http://www.formatt-hitech.com>

<http://en.nisifilters.com/square-nd-filters>

With what you do do some of your images in post, how would you tell if you 
got a satisfactory result, or not?
>
> > There are Lee filters, and there are other square, and rectangular filter
> > systems from other manufacturers, all of different quality. The most
> > ubiquitous and least expensive are the Cokin resin filters. Perhaps it was a
> > case of the B&H rep understanding that the square and/or rectangular filter
> > systems were not suitable for your type of shooting.
>
> Yes, his suggestive was that I go back to an old wet darkroom method.
> Dodge the really light areas, using black cardboard or my hands. There
> is a lot of trial and error, but it works. After a while I got a sense
> of how long to dodge. And with the dynamic range of my camera,
> corrections can be made in post.

When was this?
>
> > BTW: You can get screw on grad filters, I have a few of those
>
> They work great, if you like every image to have a similar look, and
> shooting conditions are always the same. The square graduated filters
> can be move vertically, within limits.

That is the reason I don’t carry them as a regular part of my kit.
> > > >
> > > > I use the screw on filters for those times it is inconvenient to use the
> > > > Lee ND and ND Grad system. The Lee system also includes a pretty good CPF. I
> > > > use the Lee Seven5 system with my Fujifilm X-cameras.
> > > >
> > > > <http://www.leefilters.com/index.php/camera/system-seven5>
>
> As we determined long ago, we have very different shooting styles, and
> tastes.

True. However, there are some areas where some understanding, use of, and 
experimentation with equipment is shared.

-- 

Regards,
Savageduck