Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
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From: PeterN <"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2017 18:11:02 -0500
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On 11/7/2017 2:03 PM, Savageduck wrote:
> On Nov 7, 2017, PeterN wrote
> (in article<otstch02d2i@news4.newsguy.com>):
> 
>> On 11/6/2017 4:27 PM, Savageduck wrote:
>>> On Nov 6, 2017, PeterN wrote
>>> (in article<otqb0n0l5s@news4.newsguy.com>):
>>>
>>>> On 11/6/2017 12:21 PM, Savageduck wrote:
>>>>> On Nov 6, 2017, PeterN wrote
>>>>> (in article<otpvla02a2u@news7.newsguy.com>):
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 11/5/2017 1:11 AM, Savageduck wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> <<Snip>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just go with a filter wrench, that is what they are designed for, and
>>>>>>> forget
>>>>>>> the hare-brained schemes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yep.
>>>>>> The only filters I now use are: ND; variable ND; CP; and a variable fog.
>>>>>> I carry filter wrenches in my bag at all times, although I haven't had a
>>>>>> stuck filter in over ten years.
>>>>>
>>>>> When it comes to screw on filters I have ND, CPF, and only one Variable
>>>>> ND.
>>>>> I
>>>>> have not been impressed with the variable ND, and it doesn’t get that
>>>>> much
>>>>> use. Most recently I bought a few of the Hoya Solas IRND filters.
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://hoyafilterusa.com/product/hoya-solas-irnd-2/>
>>>>
>>>> The variable ND allows me to compose without having to attach the filter
>>>> later.
>>>
>>> That was my intention. However, I found that the Vari ND is susceptible to
>>> many of the issues that can be found with a CPF if you have the wrong angle
>>> of incidence. The worst of these is the cross polarization phenomenon. That
>>> is something which doesn’t happen with an ND, or ND Grad.
>>
>> Before I got the variable ND, I used tow polarized filters, one linear
>> and the other my CP. It worked fine a lot of the time. But, under
>> certain lighting conditions there was internal flare. Also, unlike good
>> quality ND filters, polarizing filters can cause a color shift.
>>
>> I use a Heliopan.
>> <https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/765517-REG/Heliopan_707790_77...
>> Neutral_Density.html>
>>
>>>
>>>> I only use the fixed ND when it is very bright. It is a ten stop.
>>>
>>> A 10 stop ND is a pretty serious ND, you should only need it if you are
>>> trying to slow down the shutter speed for a long exposure, smooth out water
>>> in waterfalls, or surf, or add movement to clouds, and/or if you are trying
>>> to control DoF, especially if shooting wide open in bright light.
>>
>> Spot on. BTW there are other methods for smoothing water. multiple
>> exposure works fine. You can get a nice silky effect from many
>> waterfalls by shooting 1/5 to 1/50 of a second, depending on conditions
>> and your taste.
>>>
>>> With a 10 stop ND you will not be able to focus with the filter in place, so
>>> you should be focusing manually, and then attach the 10 ND filter. With
>>> screw on ND filters I have 2 stop, 4 stop, and 9 stop. I cannot focus with the 9
>>> stop in place. I have a 10 stop Lee.
>>>
>>> Also if it is very bright, there are other steps you can take rather than
>>> resorting to a 10 stop ND, consider shooting at ISO 100, or ISO 200 and st a
>>> higher shutter speed, along with a more reasonable ND, somewhere in the 2-6
>>> stop area.
>>>>
>>>> In another post I mentioned that I was advised by B&H not to purchase an
>>>> item. It was any of the Lee type filters. I had wanted to get a
>>>> graduated ND filter. Watchagonnado.
>>>
>>> What “Lee type filters”?
>>
>> The sales rep made it clear that no plastic filter would give me the
>> satisfactory results.
> 
> As much as the sales rep was helpful, this might have been one area where his
> knowledge was limited by personal bias, or limited knowledge of the latest
> advances in filter tech.
> 

I think most of use form conclusions based upon our life experiences.

> Not all the rectangular/square filters are ‘plastic’, and the quality of
> the optical resin, not plastic filters used by the best of those systems are
> pretty good, and those systems should not suffer a blanket condemnation
> because of a sales ref’s opinion. They provide a solution where none exists
> for screw on filters.
> 
> Consider these ‘glass' filters made by Lee &  others:
> 
> <http://www.leefilters.com/index.php/camera/proglass-nd>
> 
> <http://www.formatt-hitech.com>
> 
> <http://en.nisifilters.com/square-nd-filters>
> 
> With what you do do some of your images in post, how would you tell if you
> got a satisfactory result, or not?

Whether I like them.


>>
>>> There are Lee filters, and there are other square, and rectangular filter
>>> systems from other manufacturers, all of different quality. The most
>>> ubiquitous and least expensive are the Cokin resin filters. Perhaps it was a
>>> case of the B&H rep understanding that the square and/or rectangular filter
>>> systems were not suitable for your type of shooting.
>>
>> Yes, his suggestive was that I go back to an old wet darkroom method.
>> Dodge the really light areas, using black cardboard or my hands. There
>> is a lot of trial and error, but it works. After a while I got a sense
>> of how long to dodge. And with the dynamic range of my camera,
>> corrections can be made in post.
> 
> When was this?

A few years ago

>>
>>> BTW: You can get screw on grad filters, I have a few of those
>>
>> They work great, if you like every image to have a similar look, and
>> shooting conditions are always the same. The square graduated filters
>> can be move vertically, within limits.
> 
> That is the reason I don’t carry them as a regular part of my kit.
>>>>>
>>>>> I use the screw on filters for those times it is inconvenient to use the
>>>>> Lee ND and ND Grad system. The Lee system also includes a pretty good CPF. I
>>>>> use the Lee Seven5 system with my Fujifilm X-cameras.
>>>>>
>>>>> <http://www.leefilters.com/index.php/camera/system-seven5>
>>
>> As we determined long ago, we have very different shooting styles, and
>> tastes.
> 
> True. However, there are some areas where some understanding, use of, and
> experimentation with equipment is shared.
> 
Hope so.

-- 
PeterN