Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
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From: PeterN <"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2017 22:52:41 -0500
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On 11/7/2017 6:53 PM, Savageduck wrote:
> On Nov 7, 2017, PeterN wrote
> (in article<ottei502p62@news4.newsguy.com>):
> 
>> On 11/7/2017 2:03 PM, Savageduck wrote:
>>> On Nov 7, 2017, PeterN wrote
>>> (in article<otstch02d2i@news4.newsguy.com>):
>>>
>>>> On 11/6/2017 4:27 PM, Savageduck wrote:
>>>>> On Nov 6, 2017, PeterN wrote
>>>>> (in article<otqb0n0l5s@news4.newsguy.com>):
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 11/6/2017 12:21 PM, Savageduck wrote:
>>>>>>> On Nov 6, 2017, PeterN wrote
>>>>>>> (in article<otpvla02a2u@news7.newsguy.com>):
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 11/5/2017 1:11 AM, Savageduck wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <<Snip>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When it comes to screw on filters I have ND, CPF, and only one Variable
>>>>>>> ND.
>>>>>>> I have not been impressed with the variable ND, and it doesn’t get that
>>>>>>> much use. Most recently I bought a few of the Hoya Solas IRND filters.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <https://hoyafilterusa.com/product/hoya-solas-irnd-2/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The variable ND allows me to compose without having to attach the filter
>>>>>> later.
>>>>>
>>>>> That was my intention. However, I found that the Vari ND is susceptible to
>>>>> many of the issues that can be found with a CPF if you have the wrong
>>>>> angle of incidence. The worst of these is the cross polarization phenomenon.
>>>>> That is something which doesn’t happen with an ND, or ND Grad.
>>>>
>>>> Before I got the variable ND, I used tow polarized filters, one linear
>>>> and the other my CP. It worked fine a lot of the time. But, under
>>>> certain lighting conditions there was internal flare. Also, unlike good
>>>> quality ND filters, polarizing filters can cause a color shift.
>>>>
>>>> I use a Heliopan.
>>>> <https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/765517-REG/Heliopan_707790_77...
>>>> io_Neutral_Density.html>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I only use the fixed ND when it is very bright. It is a ten stop.
>>>>>
>>>>> A 10 stop ND is a pretty serious ND, you should only need it if you are
>>>>> trying to slow down the shutter speed for a long exposure, smooth out
>>>>> water in waterfalls, or surf, or add movement to clouds, and/or if you are
>>>>> trying to control DoF, especially if shooting wide open in bright light.
>>>>
>>>> Spot on. BTW there are other methods for smoothing water. multiple
>>>> exposure works fine. You can get a nice silky effect from many
>>>> waterfalls by shooting 1/5 to 1/50 of a second, depending on conditions
>>>> and your taste.
>>>>>
>>>>> With a 10 stop ND you will not be able to focus with the filter in place,
>>>>> so you should be focusing manually, and then attach the 10 ND filter. With
>>>>> screw on ND filters I have 2 stop, 4 stop, and 9 stop. I cannot focus
>>>>> with the 9 stop in place. I have a 10 stop Lee.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also if it is very bright, there are other steps you can take rather than
>>>>> resorting to a 10 stop ND, consider shooting at ISO 100, or ISO 200 and
>>>>> set a higher shutter speed, along with a more reasonable ND, somewhere in the
>>>>> 2-6 stop area.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In another post I mentioned that I was advised by B&H not to purchase an
>>>>>> item. It was any of the Lee type filters. I had wanted to get a
>>>>>> graduated ND filter. Watchagonnado.
>>>>>
>>>>> What “Lee type filters”?
>>>>
>>>> The sales rep made it clear that no plastic filter would give me the
>>>> satisfactory results.
>>>
>>> As much as the sales rep was helpful, this might have been one area where
>>> his knowledge was limited by personal bias, or limited knowledge of the latest
>>> advances in filter tech.
>>
>> I think most of use form conclusions based upon our life experiences.
> 
> I suspect that was what happened in this case.
>>
>>> Not all the rectangular/square filters are ‘plastic’, and the quality of
>>> the optical resin, not plastic filters used by the best of those systems are
>>> pretty good, and those systems should not suffer a blanket condemnation
>>> because of a sales ref’s opinion. They provide a solution where none
>>> exists for screw on filters.
>>>
>>> Consider these ‘glass' filters made by Lee &  others:
>>>
>>> <http://www.leefilters.com/index.php/camera/proglass-nd>
>>>
>>> <http://www.formatt-hitech.com>
>>>
>>> <http://en.nisifilters.com/square-nd-filters>
>>>
>>> With what you do do some of your images in post, how would you tell if you
>>> got a satisfactory result, or not?
>>
>> Whether I like them.
> 
> However, in the case of RAW, or SOOC images from any of your Nikon DSLRs,
> regardless of whether a filter is used, you seldom determine that those are
> ‘satisfactory results’ for you, until you have appliedpost processing.
> That post processing of yours would in many instances negate the effect of
> any on camera filter. At least that is what we have come to expect from those
> images you have shared. So mostly they only become images you like after the
> application of your particular post processing magic.
>>


True. But in camera dodging, cuts down on the exposure of of bright 
areas, and can prevent the highlights from being burned out.


>>>>
>>>>> There are Lee filters, and there are other square, and rectangular filter
>>>>> systems from other manufacturers, all of different quality. The most
>>>>> ubiquitous and least expensive are the Cokin resin filters. Perhaps it
>>>>> was a case of the B&H rep understanding that the square and/or rectangular
>>>>> filter systems were not suitable for your type of shooting.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, his suggestive was that I go back to an old wet darkroom method.
>>>> Dodge the really light areas, using black cardboard or my hands. There
>>>> is a lot of trial and error, but it works. After a while I got a sense
>>>> of how long to dodge. And with the dynamic range of my camera,
>>>> corrections can be made in post.
>>>
>>> When was this?
>>
>> A few years ago
> 
> I thought as much. That was a non-digital mind giving you advice. Sometimes
> it doesn’t translate directly.
>>
>>>>
>>>>> BTW: You can get screw on grad filters, I have a few of those
>>>>
>>>> They work great, if you like every image to have a similar look, and
>>>> shooting conditions are always the same. The square graduated filters
>>>> can be move vertically, within limits.
>>>
>>> That is the reason I don’t carry them as a regular part of my kit.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I use the screw on filters for those times it is inconvenient to use the
>>>>>>> Lee ND and ND Grad system. The Lee system also includes a pretty good
>>>>>>> CPF. I use the Lee Seven5 system with my Fujifilm X-cameras.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <http://www.leefilters.com/index.php/camera/system-seven5>
>>>>
>>>> As we determined long ago, we have very different shooting styles, and
>>>> tastes.
>>>
>>> True. However, there are some areas where some understanding, use of, and
>>> experimentation with equipment is shared.
>> Hope so.
> 
> ;-)
> 


-- 
PeterN