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From: BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com>
Subject: German Government Official Wants Backdoors in Every Device Connected to the Internet
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From: BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv
Subject: German Government Official Wants Backdoors in Every Device Connected to the Internet
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The US Department of Justice is reviving its anti-encryption arguments 
despite not being given any signals from the administration or Congress 
that undermining encryption is something either entity desires. The same 
thing is happening in Germany, with Interior Secretary Thomas de 
Maiziere continuing an anti-encryption crusade very few German 
government officials seem interested in joining.

The key difference in de Maiziere's push is that he isn't limiting 
potential backdoors to cell phones. He appears to believe anything 
connected to the internet should be backdoored... possibly even the cars 
German citizens drive.

    The RedaktionsNetzwerk Deutschland (RND) reported that Thomas
    de Maiziere had written up a draft proposal for the interior
    minister conference, taking place next week in Leipzig, which
    he has called "the legal duty for third parties to allow for
    secret surveillance".

    According to the RND, the proposal would "dramatically
    extend" the state's powers to spy on its citizens.

And it's not just backdoors being suggested. De Maiziere wants all 
electronics to be law enforcement-complicit. All things -- especially 
those connected to the internet -- should be constructed with government 
access in mind.

    For example, the modern locking systems on cars are so
    intelligent that they even warn a driver if their car is
    shaken a little bit. De Maiziere wants the new law to ensure
    that these alerts would not be sent out to a car owner if
    the police determined it to be justified by their
    investigation.

De Maiziere wants the government to be able to intercept and block 
notifications sent from cars to the people that own them. But it's far 
more than smarter cars being compromised on behalf of the government. If 
de Maiziere gets his way, it will be every connected device everywhere.

    De Maiziere also wants the security services to have the
    ability to spy on any device connected to the internet. Tech 
    companies would have to give the state "back door" access to
    private tablets and computers, and even to smart TVs and
    digital kitchen systems.

It's rare for government officials to blatantly state citizens should be 
under surveillance at all times. Craftier politicians tend to use less 
direct rhetoric, even if they aspire to the same goals. This blatant 
call for mass surveillance of millions of innocent people has provoked a 
reaction from de Maiziere's colleagues, although probably not the one he 
was looking for.

    The proposal was met with astonishment by digital activists and 
    politicians on Friday.

De Maiziere seems blissfully unaware Germany was once home to a powerful 
dictator who killed millions of his own citizens while deploying a 
secret police force. And once that period ended, part of Germany rolled 
directly into a program of intense domestic surveillance utilizing the 
Stasi -- one of the most brutally effective secret police forces ever 
wielded by a government against its own people. De Maiziere's proposal 
is so tone deaf -- given the history of the nation he serves -- it's 
tempting to believe he's an under-recognized satirist. But de Maiziere 
seems completely serious. Fortunately for Germans, no one else seems to 
take de Maiziere quite as seriously as he does.

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20171204/09331338735/german-govern...
official-wants-backdoors-every-device-connected-to-internet.shtml 

	
Subject: Re: German Government Official Wants Backdoors in Every DeviceConnected to the Internet
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From: Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv
Subject: Re: German Government Official Wants Backdoors in Every Device
Connected to the Internet
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2017 12:57:45 -0500
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Print Article
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On 2017-12-07 11:12 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
> The US Department of Justice is reviving its anti-encryption arguments
> despite not being given any signals from the administration or Congress
> that undermining encryption is something either entity desires. The same
> thing is happening in Germany, with Interior Secretary Thomas de
> Maiziere continuing an anti-encryption crusade very few German
> government officials seem interested in joining.
> 
> The key difference in de Maiziere's push is that he isn't limiting
> potential backdoors to cell phones. He appears to believe anything
> connected to the internet should be backdoored... possibly even the cars
> German citizens drive.
> 
>      The RedaktionsNetzwerk Deutschland (RND) reported that Thomas
>      de Maiziere had written up a draft proposal for the interior
>      minister conference, taking place next week in Leipzig, which
>      he has called "the legal duty for third parties to allow for
>      secret surveillance".
> 
>      According to the RND, the proposal would "dramatically
>      extend" the state's powers to spy on its citizens.
> 
> And it's not just backdoors being suggested. De Maiziere wants all
> electronics to be law enforcement-complicit. All things -- especially
> those connected to the internet -- should be constructed with government
> access in mind.
> 
>      For example, the modern locking systems on cars are so
>      intelligent that they even warn a driver if their car is
>      shaken a little bit. De Maiziere wants the new law to ensure
>      that these alerts would not be sent out to a car owner if
>      the police determined it to be justified by their
>      investigation.
> 
> De Maiziere wants the government to be able to intercept and block
> notifications sent from cars to the people that own them. But it's far
> more than smarter cars being compromised on behalf of the government. If
> de Maiziere gets his way, it will be every connected device everywhere.
> 
>      De Maiziere also wants the security services to have the
>      ability to spy on any device connected to the internet. Tech
>      companies would have to give the state "back door" access to
>      private tablets and computers, and even to smart TVs and
>      digital kitchen systems.
> 
> It's rare for government officials to blatantly state citizens should be
> under surveillance at all times. Craftier politicians tend to use less
> direct rhetoric, even if they aspire to the same goals. This blatant
> call for mass surveillance of millions of innocent people has provoked a
> reaction from de Maiziere's colleagues, although probably not the one he
> was looking for.
> 
>      The proposal was met with astonishment by digital activists and
>      politicians on Friday.
> 
> De Maiziere seems blissfully unaware Germany was once home to a powerful
> dictator who killed millions of his own citizens while deploying a
> secret police force. And once that period ended, part of Germany rolled
> directly into a program of intense domestic surveillance utilizing the
> Stasi -- one of the most brutally effective secret police forces ever
> wielded by a government against its own people. De Maiziere's proposal
> is so tone deaf -- given the history of the nation he serves -- it's
> tempting to believe he's an under-recognized satirist. But de Maiziere
> seems completely serious. Fortunately for Germans, no one else seems to
> take de Maiziere quite as seriously as he does.
> 
> https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20171204/09331338735/german-govern...
> official-wants-backdoors-every-device-connected-to-internet.shtml
> 

First of all, I doubt De Maiziere is unaware of the Nazis or the STASI. 
I've seen WW II and East Germany documentaries that featured interviews 
with prominent officials of those regimes and they were named De 
Maiziere too, which is not exactly a common German name. I suspect the 
De Maiziere family is one of those elite families - think German 
Kennedy's - whose members have been prominent for generations.

But to get to the real issue at hand, I don't think it is quite so cut 
and dried as saying that all citizen surveillance is always and totally 
evil, although I am strongly tempted to agree with that sentiment. I'm 
sure you'll appreciate that the Bad Guys (however defined) will do their 
best to utilize encryption to facilitate their communications. Picture 
ISIS/Taliban/Al Qaida types who are plotting mass murder and using 
encryption to hide their communications from Good Guys trying to listen 
in. What if surveillance that could get around the encryption was able 
to foil plots that threatened dozens, hundreds or even thousands of lives?

It's been said that those who give up their liberty to buy security are 
fools who will soon have neither and I'm acutely conscious of that. 
There is clearly real potential for abuse here. I assume that's why the 
US only permits this sort of surveillance on specific individuals with 
the approval of judges in FISA courts. (Some other countries have 
comparable processes.) Maybe that's a reasonable and sufficient 
safeguard to ensure that warrants are NOT abused and are only issued 
when there is sufficient evidence to merit them?


-- 
Rhino 

	
From: thinbluemime2 <thinbluemime2@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: German Government Official Wants Backdoors in Every DeviceConnected to the Internet
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Subject: Re: German Government Official Wants Backdoors in Every Device
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Print Article
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On Thursday, December 7, 2017 at 12:57:51 PM UTC-5, Rhino wrote:
> On 2017-12-07 11:12 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
> > The US Department of Justice is reviving its anti-encryption arguments
> > despite not being given any signals from the administration or Congress
> > that undermining encryption is something either entity desires. The same
> > thing is happening in Germany, with Interior Secretary Thomas de
> > Maiziere continuing an anti-encryption crusade very few German
> > government officials seem interested in joining.
> > 
> > The key difference in de Maiziere's push is that he isn't limiting
> > potential backdoors to cell phones. He appears to believe anything
> > connected to the internet should be backdoored... possibly even the cars
> > German citizens drive.
> > 
> >      The RedaktionsNetzwerk Deutschland (RND) reported that Thomas
> >      de Maiziere had written up a draft proposal for the interior
> >      minister conference, taking place next week in Leipzig, which
> >      he has called "the legal duty for third parties to allow for
> >      secret surveillance".
> > 
> >      According to the RND, the proposal would "dramatically
> >      extend" the state's powers to spy on its citizens.
> > 
> > And it's not just backdoors being suggested. De Maiziere wants all
> > electronics to be law enforcement-complicit. All things -- especially
> > those connected to the internet -- should be constructed with government
> > access in mind.
> > 
> >      For example, the modern locking systems on cars are so
> >      intelligent that they even warn a driver if their car is
> >      shaken a little bit. De Maiziere wants the new law to ensure
> >      that these alerts would not be sent out to a car owner if
> >      the police determined it to be justified by their
> >      investigation.
> > 
> > De Maiziere wants the government to be able to intercept and block
> > notifications sent from cars to the people that own them. But it's far
> > more than smarter cars being compromised on behalf of the government. If
> > de Maiziere gets his way, it will be every connected device everywhere.
> > 
> >      De Maiziere also wants the security services to have the
> >      ability to spy on any device connected to the internet. Tech
> >      companies would have to give the state "back door" access to
> >      private tablets and computers, and even to smart TVs and
> >      digital kitchen systems.
> > 
> > It's rare for government officials to blatantly state citizens should be
> > under surveillance at all times. Craftier politicians tend to use less
> > direct rhetoric, even if they aspire to the same goals. This blatant
> > call for mass surveillance of millions of innocent people has provoked a
> > reaction from de Maiziere's colleagues, although probably not the one he
> > was looking for.
> > 
> >      The proposal was met with astonishment by digital activists and
> >      politicians on Friday.
> > 
> > De Maiziere seems blissfully unaware Germany was once home to a powerful
> > dictator who killed millions of his own citizens while deploying a
> > secret police force. And once that period ended, part of Germany rolled
> > directly into a program of intense domestic surveillance utilizing the
> > Stasi -- one of the most brutally effective secret police forces ever
> > wielded by a government against its own people. De Maiziere's proposal
> > is so tone deaf -- given the history of the nation he serves -- it's
> > tempting to believe he's an under-recognized satirist. But de Maiziere
> > seems completely serious. Fortunately for Germans, no one else seems to
> > take de Maiziere quite as seriously as he does.
> > 
> > https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20171204/09331338735/german-govern...
> > official-wants-backdoors-every-device-connected-to-internet.shtml


> But to get to the real issue at hand, I don't think it is quite so cut 
> and dried as saying that all citizen surveillance is always and totally 
> evil, although I am strongly tempted to agree with that sentiment. I'm 
> sure you'll appreciate that the Bad Guys (however defined) will do their 
> best to utilize encryption to facilitate their communications. Picture 
> ISIS/Taliban/Al Qaida types who are plotting mass murder and using 
> encryption to hide their communications from Good Guys trying to listen 
> in. What if surveillance that could get around the encryption was able 
> to foil plots that threatened dozens, hundreds or even thousands of lives?
> 
> It's been said that those who give up their liberty to buy security are 
> fools who will soon have neither and I'm acutely conscious of that. 
> There is clearly real potential for abuse here. I assume that's why the 
> US only permits this sort of surveillance on specific individuals with 
> the approval of judges in FISA courts. (Some other countries have 
> comparable processes.) Maybe that's a reasonable and sufficient 
> safeguard to ensure that warrants are NOT abused and are only issued 
> when there is sufficient evidence to merit them?


The FOREIGN Intelligence Surveillance Act or FISA was for the collection of FOREIGN Intelligence,
not for domestic spying on United States citizens.

NSA gets a warrant, not for collecting, NSA collects fuggin EVERYTHING. This posting will be
collected as soon as I hit enter. NSA gets a FISA warrant when it searches...SEARCHES inside the
already collected data set stored in 3 billion dollar server farms like the one in Bluffdale Utah.

The data is stored forever. The data will still be stored, subject to a FISA warrant when your
grandchildren have grandchildren.

Research Willian Binney. The FISA courts are a mockery of justice in a democratic republic. 

	
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From: thinbluemime2 <thinbluemime2@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: German Government Official Wants Backdoors in Every DeviceConnected to the Internet
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Subject: Re: German Government Official Wants Backdoors in Every Device
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Print Article
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On Thursday, December 7, 2017 at 11:11:01 AM UTC-5, BTR1701 wrote:
> The US Department of Justice is reviving its anti-encryption arguments 
> despite not being given any signals from the administration or Congress 
> that undermining encryption is something either entity desires.

> It's rare for government officials to blatantly state citizens should be 
> under surveillance at all times. Craftier politicians tend to use less 
> direct rhetoric, even if they aspire to the same goals. This blatant 
> call for mass surveillance of millions of innocent people has provoked a 
> reaction 


03.15.12
CIA CHIEF: WE'LL SPY ON YOU THROUGH YOUR DISHWASHER
https://www.wired.com/2012/03/petraeus-tv-remote/


9 February 2016 
US intelligence chief: we might use the internet of things to spy on you
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/feb/09/internet-of-thing...


October 20, 2017
Mike Pompeo: CIA Will Be 'Much More Vicious Agency
https://www.commondreams.org/news/2017/10/20/under-trump-brags-mike-...



----------------

GAWD! Blesh Uh-mer-ca ?