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From: hector <bobble@there.com>
Subject: Churchill (2017)
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From: hector <bobble@there.com>
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Subject: Churchill (2017)
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A movie about Winston Churchill in the few days leading up to the D-Day 
landing at Normandy.  Perhaps unusual to many is that Churchill opposed 
the operation and wanted something done to divert the Germans at the 
same time, or not do the landing at all.  To me the story was ultimately 
about the effect on Churchill of the Gallipoli landing of 1915 that is 
the basis of ANZAC Day in Australia, April 25.  History blames him for 
that tragedy, but he insists in this movie that the fault was with those 
responsible for carrying it out.  He was haunted for the rest of his 
life by it.  This is shown from the beginning of this movie, but the 
Gallipoli reference is revealed later in the movie.
A historian who writes about truth in movies wrote this screenplay, 
Alex von Tunzelmann, https://www.theguardian.com/film/series/reelhistory 

	
From: Neill Massello <nmassello@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Churchill (2017)
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From: nmassello@yahoo.com (Neill Massello)
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Subject: Re: Churchill (2017)
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2017 11:28:09 -0700
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hector<bobble@there.com> wrote:

> A movie about Winston Churchill in the few days leading up to the D-Day
> landing at Normandy.  Perhaps unusual to many is that Churchill opposed
> the operation and wanted something done to divert the Germans at the 
> same time, or not do the landing at all.  To me the story was ultimately
> about the effect on Churchill of the Gallipoli landing of 1915 that is
> the basis of ANZAC Day in Australia, April 25.  History blames him for
> that tragedy, but he insists in this movie that the fault was with those
> responsible for carrying it out.  He was haunted for the rest of his 
> life by it.  This is shown from the beginning of this movie, but the 
> Gallipoli reference is revealed later in the movie.
> A historian who writes about truth in movies wrote this screenplay, 
> Alex von Tunzelmann, https://www.theguardian.com/film/series/reelhistory

Churchill was an inspiring orator and a dreadful military strategist. 

	
From: alvey <alvey@is.invalid>
Subject: Re: Churchill (2017)
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From: alvey <alvey@is.invalid>
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Subject: Re: Churchill (2017)
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On Mon, 20 Nov 2017 11:28:09 -0700, Neill Massello wrote:

> hector<bobble@there.com> wrote:
> 
>> A movie about Winston Churchill in the few days leading up to the D-Day
>> landing at Normandy.  Perhaps unusual to many is that Churchill opposed
>> the operation and wanted something done to divert the Germans at the 
>> same time, or not do the landing at all.  To me the story was ultimately
>> about the effect on Churchill of the Gallipoli landing of 1915 that is
>> the basis of ANZAC Day in Australia, April 25.  History blames him for
>> that tragedy, but he insists in this movie that the fault was with those
>> responsible for carrying it out.  He was haunted for the rest of his 
>> life by it.  This is shown from the beginning of this movie, but the 
>> Gallipoli reference is revealed later in the movie.
>> A historian who writes about truth in movies wrote this screenplay, 
>> Alex von Tunzelmann, https://www.theguardian.com/film/series/reelhistory
> 
> Churchill was an inspiring orator and a dreadful military strategist.

Indeed. And this is the first time I've ever read that the fat bastard was
"haunted" by the failure of his 'soft underbelly of Europe' folly.



alvey 

	
From: hector <bobble@there.com>
Subject: Re: Churchill (2017)
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From: hector <bobble@there.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies.current-films
Subject: Re: Churchill (2017)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 23:19:47 +1100
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On 21/11/2017 7:13 AM, alvey wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Nov 2017 11:28:09 -0700, Neill Massello wrote:
> 
>> hector<bobble@there.com> wrote:
>>
>>> A movie about Winston Churchill in the few days leading up to the D-Day
>>> landing at Normandy.  Perhaps unusual to many is that Churchill opposed
>>> the operation and wanted something done to divert the Germans at the
>>> same time, or not do the landing at all.  To me the story was ultimately
>>> about the effect on Churchill of the Gallipoli landing of 1915 that is
>>> the basis of ANZAC Day in Australia, April 25.  History blames him for
>>> that tragedy, but he insists in this movie that the fault was with those
>>> responsible for carrying it out.  He was haunted for the rest of his
>>> life by it.  This is shown from the beginning of this movie, but the
>>> Gallipoli reference is revealed later in the movie.
>>> A historian who writes about truth in movies wrote this screenplay,
>>> Alex von Tunzelmann, https://www.theguardian.com/film/series/reelhistory
>>
>> Churchill was an inspiring orator and a dreadful military strategist.
> 
> Indeed. And this is the first time I've ever read that the fat bastard was
> "haunted" by the failure of his 'soft underbelly of Europe' folly.
> 
> 
Isn't that a WWII reference instead?
It seems unclear to what extent Churchill instigated what happened at 
Gallipoli beyond just politically.  He wasn't in charge of much of 
military activities surely.

> 
> alvey
> 

	
From: ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <@ednolan>
Subject: Re: Churchill (2017)
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From: ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>)
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Subject: Re: Churchill (2017)
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In article <ov15la$rov$1@dont-email.me>, hector<bobble@there.com> wrote:
>On 21/11/2017 7:13 AM, alvey wrote:
>> On Mon, 20 Nov 2017 11:28:09 -0700, Neill Massello wrote:
>> 
>>> hector<bobble@there.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> A movie about Winston Churchill in the few days leading up to the D-Day
>>>> landing at Normandy.  Perhaps unusual to many is that Churchill opposed
>>>> the operation and wanted something done to divert the Germans at the
>>>> same time, or not do the landing at all.  To me the story was ultimately
>>>> about the effect on Churchill of the Gallipoli landing of 1915 that is
>>>> the basis of ANZAC Day in Australia, April 25.  History blames him for
>>>> that tragedy, but he insists in this movie that the fault was with those
>>>> responsible for carrying it out.  He was haunted for the rest of his
>>>> life by it.  This is shown from the beginning of this movie, but the
>>>> Gallipoli reference is revealed later in the movie.
>>>> A historian who writes about truth in movies wrote this screenplay,
>>>> Alex von Tunzelmann, https://www.theguardian.com/film/series/reelhistory
>>>
>>> Churchill was an inspiring orator and a dreadful military strategist.
>> 
>> Indeed. And this is the first time I've ever read that the fat bastard was
>> "haunted" by the failure of his 'soft underbelly of Europe' folly.
>> 
>> 
>Isn't that a WWII reference instead?
>It seems unclear to what extent Churchill instigated what happened at 
>Gallipoli beyond just politically.  He wasn't in charge of much of 
>military activities surely.
>

He wanted a naval attack, which was in fact started, but broken off
at the point of success.  Now whether forcing the straights would have
had the strategic advantages he forecast is another matter.
-- 
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore.. 

	
From: hector <bobble@there.com>
Subject: Re: Churchill (2017)
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From: hector <bobble@there.com>
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Subject: Re: Churchill (2017)
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On 21/11/2017 5:28 AM, Neill Massello wrote:
> hector<bobble@there.com> wrote:
> 
>> A movie about Winston Churchill in the few days leading up to the D-Day
>> landing at Normandy.  Perhaps unusual to many is that Churchill opposed
>> the operation and wanted something done to divert the Germans at the
>> same time, or not do the landing at all.  To me the story was ultimately
>> about the effect on Churchill of the Gallipoli landing of 1915 that is
>> the basis of ANZAC Day in Australia, April 25.  History blames him for
>> that tragedy, but he insists in this movie that the fault was with those
>> responsible for carrying it out.  He was haunted for the rest of his
>> life by it.  This is shown from the beginning of this movie, but the
>> Gallipoli reference is revealed later in the movie.
>> A historian who writes about truth in movies wrote this screenplay,
>> Alex von Tunzelmann, https://www.theguardian.com/film/series/reelhistory
> 
> Churchill was an inspiring orator and a dreadful military strategist.
> 

Have you seen the movie? 

	
From: Neill Massello <nmassello@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Churchill (2017)
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From: nmassello@yahoo.com (Neill Massello)
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Subject: Re: Churchill (2017)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 11:26:11 -0700
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hector<bobble@there.com> wrote:

> Have you seen the movie?

No. I assume it deals with the story that Churchill kept pushing for a
continental invasion before the Allied forces were ready for it? 

	
From: hector <bobble@there.com>
Subject: Re: Churchill (2017)
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Subject: Re: Churchill (2017)
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On 22/11/2017 5:26 AM, Neill Massello wrote:
> hector<bobble@there.com> wrote:
> 
>> Have you seen the movie?
> 
> No. I assume it deals with the story that Churchill kept pushing for a
> continental invasion before the Allied forces were ready for it?
> 

Not at all.  He opposed the D-Day operation because it was a naval 
landing, too much like Gallipoli, Eisenhower, Montgomery wanted it. 
Churchill seems as if his time as relevant to the war effort is passing 
in this story.  He bemoans how Gallipoli was handled in this.  He said 
everyone blamed him but it wasn't just him.
He wanted diversionary actions to make the Germans move their forces 
elsewhere.  He tried to instigate other plans but was overruled behind 
his back.  He was pleased when the weather stopped the invasion.
He says he is still haunted by the Gallipoli disaster. 

	
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Subject: Re: Churchill (2017)
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From: Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>
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Subject: Re: Churchill (2017)
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In message <ov6fvc$e7t$1@dont-email.me> hector<bobble@there.com> wrote:
> On 22/11/2017 5:26 AM, Neill Massello wrote:
>> hector<bobble@there.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Have you seen the movie?
>> 
>> No. I assume it deals with the story that Churchill kept pushing for a
>> continental invasion before the Allied forces were ready for it?
>> 

> Not at all.  He opposed the D-Day operation because it was a naval 
> landing, too much like Gallipoli, Eisenhower, Montgomery wanted it. 
> Churchill seems as if his time as relevant to the war effort is passing 
> in this story.  He bemoans how Gallipoli was handled in this.  He said 
> everyone blamed him but it wasn't just him.
> He wanted diversionary actions to make the Germans move their forces 
> elsewhere.  He tried to instigate other plans but was overruled behind 
> his back.  He was pleased when the weather stopped the invasion.
> He says he is still haunted by the Gallipoli disaster.

Had the Germans not been forced into a defense that Hitler insisted on
and the Generals were opposed to, the D-Day invasion would be known as
the greatest military disaster in world history.

The Germans knew what was coming, basically. And where, basically. They
were overruled from the top.

Even Eisenhower was expecting defeat (he'd written his resignation
speech, but not a speech for the actual outcome).

-- 
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TOFU>