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From: BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com>
Subject: 12 STRONG: The Left is Upset (Again)
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From: BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com>
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Subject: 12 STRONG: The Left is Upset (Again)
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This guy has some serious issues to work through. His obvious issues 
with the military aside, he can't even stand that Hemsworth is 
good-looking. "Greviously handsome"? WTF?

Oh, and contrary to the writer's claim, Hemsworth's Marines did a lot 
more than decimate the Taliban forces. They annihilated them.



-----------------
https://theintercept.com/2018/01/27/12-strong-war-movies-masculinity

Peter Maass
January 27 2018

The Hollywood Reporter published a surprising story earlier this month 
about film studios turning away from movies about sex. A biopic about 
Hugh Hefner is stalled, gone for the moment is a James Franco film about 
a 15-year-old Russian prostitute, and a remake of A STAR IS BORN is 
being re-thought, too.

"As Hollywood begins to navigate the #MeToo landscape," Tatiana Siegel 
reported, "one of the first casualties appears to be big-screen erotica. 
In the wake of the Harvey Weinstein scandal, studios are steering clear 
of sex." Alyssa Rosenberg, writing in the Washington Post, hopes that 
Hollywood's embarrassed executives are navigating "the end of a very 
narrow way of thinking about what's alluring." Instead of movies that 
objectify women, she suggests more films that portray sex and sexuality 
in intelligent ways.

This reckoning is long overdue. And it can be extended to another genre 
that has distorted how men behave: war movies. Hollywood has shown 
itself capable of making excellent war movies (think THREE KINGS, PATHS 
OF GLORY, and THE BEST YEARS OF OUR LIVES), but most are problematic. 
Some of the biggest war movies of the post-9/11 era don't just show 
violence in ways that are often gratuitous and occasionally racist. They 
model a cliched form of masculinity that veers from simplistic to 
monstrous.

For instance, you can see Rambo and John Wayne return to life in the 
latest war blockbuster, 12 STRONG, which was produced by Jerry 
Bruckheimer, who also brought us BLACK HAWK DOWN. 12 STRONG is an 
extravaganza about a Special Forces team that fought the Taliban in 
Afghanistan in the weeks and months after 9/11. During the movie's 
pivotal scene, the leader of the Green Berets, played by Chris Hemsworth 
(the grievously handsome star of the THOR franchise), decimates a hive 
of Taliban fighters with his rifle ablaze as he gallops ahead on his 
fearless horse (yes, he's riding a horse). In the same way that 
Hemsworth's assault weapon goes rat-tat-tat and the bad guys fall like 
bulleted dominoes, the scene itself checks off one born-in-Hollywood 
clich 

	
From: anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net>
Subject: Re: 12 STRONG: The Left is Upset (Again)
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From: anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net>
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Subject: Re: 12 STRONG: The Left is Upset (Again)
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In article<atropos-FADE79.12261328012018@news.giganews.com>,
 BTR1701<atropos@mac.com> wrote:

> This guy has some serious issues to work through. His obvious issues 
> with the military aside, he can't even stand that Hemsworth is 
> good-looking. "Greviously handsome"? WTF?
> 
> Oh, and contrary to the writer's claim, Hemsworth's Marines did a lot 
> more than decimate the Taliban forces. They annihilated them.
> 
> 
> 
> -----------------
> https://theintercept.com/2018/01/27/12-strong-war-movies-masculinity
> 
> Peter Maass
> January 27 2018
> 
> The Hollywood Reporter published a surprising story earlier this month 
> about film studios turning away from movies about sex. A biopic about 
> Hugh Hefner is stalled, gone for the moment is a James Franco film about 
> a 15-year-old Russian prostitute, and a remake of A STAR IS BORN is 
> being re-thought, too.
> 
> "As Hollywood begins to navigate the #MeToo landscape," Tatiana Siegel 
> reported, "one of the first casualties appears to be big-screen erotica. 
> In the wake of the Harvey Weinstein scandal, studios are steering clear 
> of sex." Alyssa Rosenberg, writing in the Washington Post, hopes that 
> Hollywood's embarrassed executives are navigating "the end of a very 
> narrow way of thinking about what's alluring." Instead of movies that 
> objectify women, she suggests more films that portray sex and sexuality 
> in intelligent ways.
> 
> This reckoning is long overdue. And it can be extended to another genre 
> that has distorted how men behave: war movies. Hollywood has shown 
> itself capable of making excellent war movies (think THREE KINGS, PATHS 
> OF GLORY, and THE BEST YEARS OF OUR LIVES), but most are problematic. 
> Some of the biggest war movies of the post-9/11 era don't just show 
> violence in ways that are often gratuitous and occasionally racist. They 
> model a cliched form of masculinity that veers from simplistic to 
> monstrous.

How gay is the guy that wrote this?

> For instance, you can see Rambo and John Wayne return to life in the 
> latest war blockbuster, 12 STRONG, which was produced by Jerry 
> Bruckheimer, who also brought us BLACK HAWK DOWN. 12 STRONG is an 
> extravaganza about a Special Forces team that fought the Taliban in 
> Afghanistan in the weeks and months after 9/11. During the movie's 
> pivotal scene, the leader of the Green Berets, played by Chris Hemsworth 
> (the grievously handsome star of the THOR franchise),

Ah.  That gay.

> decimates a hive 

Can we throw him out of the bar yet?

> of Taliban fighters with his rifle ablaze as he gallops ahead on his 
> fearless horse (yes, he's riding a horse).

Ah.  That gay.

 In the same way that 
> Hemsworth's assault weapon goes rat-tat-tat and the bad guys fall like 
> bulleted dominoes,

Ah.  That gay.

 the scene itself checks off one born-in-Hollywood 
> clich 

	
From: BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com>
Subject: Re: 12 STRONG: The Left is Upset (Again)
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From: BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com>
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Subject: Re: 12 STRONG: The Left is Upset (Again)
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In article<anim8rfsk-DAF124.14204028012018@news.easynews.com>,
 anim8rfsk<anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:

> In article<atropos-FADE79.12261328012018@news.giganews.com>,
>  BTR1701<atropos@mac.com> wrote:

> > Whenever I write about the real-world impact of war movies-- and I've 
> > gone to bat against AMERICAN SNIPER, ZERO DARK THIRTY and 13 HOURS-- I 
> > always get responses along the lines of "Relax, these are just movies. 
> > Don't take them so seriously. They're harmless." That's when it becomes 
> > necessary to say that movies can create or reinforce narratives of 
> > history and gender that influence what people think and what they do. 
> > Boys and men develop their notions of masculinity from a variety of 
> > sources that include the films they watch (the extent to which this is 
> > true is, of course, open to debate). The time has come for Hollywood to 
> > turn away from war movies that, while satisfying to both a studio's 
> > bottom line and a flag-waving concept of patriotism, perpetuate a model 
> > of masculinity that does violence to us all.
> 
> I can't believe how much I hate this clown.
> 
> At least he's good looking
> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c2/Peter_maas...
> 9.jpg/220px-Peter_maass_2009.jpg

Wow. That's grievous. 

	
Subject: Re: 12 STRONG: The Left is Upset (Again)
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From: Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com>
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Subject: Re: 12 STRONG: The Left is Upset (Again)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2018 19:07:30 -0500
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On 2018-01-28 4:20 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
> In article<atropos-FADE79.12261328012018@news.giganews.com>,
>   BTR1701<atropos@mac.com> wrote:
> 
>> This guy has some serious issues to work through. His obvious issues
>> with the military aside, he can't even stand that Hemsworth is
>> good-looking. "Greviously handsome"? WTF?
>>
>> Oh, and contrary to the writer's claim, Hemsworth's Marines did a lot
>> more than decimate the Taliban forces. They annihilated them.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----------------
>> https://theintercept.com/2018/01/27/12-strong-war-movies-masculinity
>>
>> Peter Maass
>> January 27 2018
>>
>> The Hollywood Reporter published a surprising story earlier this month
>> about film studios turning away from movies about sex. A biopic about
>> Hugh Hefner is stalled, gone for the moment is a James Franco film about
>> a 15-year-old Russian prostitute, and a remake of A STAR IS BORN is
>> being re-thought, too.
>>
>> "As Hollywood begins to navigate the #MeToo landscape," Tatiana Siegel
>> reported, "one of the first casualties appears to be big-screen erotica.
>> In the wake of the Harvey Weinstein scandal, studios are steering clear
>> of sex." Alyssa Rosenberg, writing in the Washington Post, hopes that
>> Hollywood's embarrassed executives are navigating "the end of a very
>> narrow way of thinking about what's alluring." Instead of movies that
>> objectify women, she suggests more films that portray sex and sexuality
>> in intelligent ways.
>>
>> This reckoning is long overdue. And it can be extended to another genre
>> that has distorted how men behave: war movies. Hollywood has shown
>> itself capable of making excellent war movies (think THREE KINGS, PATHS
>> OF GLORY, and THE BEST YEARS OF OUR LIVES), but most are problematic.
>> Some of the biggest war movies of the post-9/11 era don't just show
>> violence in ways that are often gratuitous and occasionally racist. They
>> model a cliched form of masculinity that veers from simplistic to
>> monstrous.
> 
> How gay is the guy that wrote this?
> 
>> For instance, you can see Rambo and John Wayne return to life in the
>> latest war blockbuster, 12 STRONG, which was produced by Jerry
>> Bruckheimer, who also brought us BLACK HAWK DOWN. 12 STRONG is an
>> extravaganza about a Special Forces team that fought the Taliban in
>> Afghanistan in the weeks and months after 9/11. During the movie's
>> pivotal scene, the leader of the Green Berets, played by Chris Hemsworth
>> (the grievously handsome star of the THOR franchise),
> 
> Ah.  That gay.
> 
>> decimates a hive
> 
> Can we throw him out of the bar yet?
> 
>> of Taliban fighters with his rifle ablaze as he gallops ahead on his
>> fearless horse (yes, he's riding a horse).
> 
> Ah.  That gay.
> 
>   In the same way that
>> Hemsworth's assault weapon goes rat-tat-tat and the bad guys fall like
>> bulleted dominoes,
> 
> Ah.  That gay.
> 
>   the scene itself checks off one born-in-Hollywood
>> cliché after another: of the rugged gunslinger, the warrior in camo,
>> good versus evil, the modern vanquishing the profane, a man at his
>> fullest.
>>
>> Whenever I write about the real-world impact of war movies-- and I've
>> gone to bat against AMERICAN SNIPER, ZERO DARK THIRTY and 13 HOURS-- I
>> always get responses along the lines of "Relax, these are just movies.
>> Don't take them so seriously. They're harmless." That's when it becomes
>> necessary to say that movies can create or reinforce narratives of
>> history and gender that influence what people think and what they do.
>> Boys and men develop their notions of masculinity from a variety of
>> sources that include the films they watch (the extent to which this is
>> true is, of course, open to debate). The time has come for Hollywood to
>> turn away from war movies that, while satisfying to both a studio's
>> bottom line and a flag-waving concept of patriotism, perpetuate a model
>> of masculinity that does violence to us all.
> 
> I can't believe how much I hate this clown.
> 
> At least he's good looking
> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c2/Peter_maas...
> 9.jpg/220px-Peter_maass_2009.jpg
> 
Wikipedia says he graduated from UC Berkeley. I'm guessing that has a 
lot to do with his views. I'm surprised to see he's married to a woman. 
I wonder who wears the pants in their house?

-- 
Rhino 

	
From: anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net>
Subject: Re: 12 STRONG: The Left is Upset (Again)
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From: anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net>
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Subject: Re: 12 STRONG: The Left is Upset (Again)
References: <atropos-FADE79.12261328012018@news.giganews.com> <anim8rfsk-DAF124.14204028012018@news.easynews.com> <p4lok2$eob$2@dont-email.me>
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In article <p4lok2$eob$2@dont-email.me>,
 Rhino<no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

> On 2018-01-28 4:20 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
> > In article<atropos-FADE79.12261328012018@news.giganews.com>,
> >   BTR1701<atropos@mac.com> wrote:
> > 
> >> This guy has some serious issues to work through. His obvious issues
> >> with the military aside, he can't even stand that Hemsworth is
> >> good-looking. "Greviously handsome"? WTF?
> >>
> >> Oh, and contrary to the writer's claim, Hemsworth's Marines did a lot
> >> more than decimate the Taliban forces. They annihilated them.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----------------
> >> https://theintercept.com/2018/01/27/12-strong-war-movies-masculinity
> >>
> >> Peter Maass
> >> January 27 2018
> >>
> >> The Hollywood Reporter published a surprising story earlier this month
> >> about film studios turning away from movies about sex. A biopic about
> >> Hugh Hefner is stalled, gone for the moment is a James Franco film about
> >> a 15-year-old Russian prostitute, and a remake of A STAR IS BORN is
> >> being re-thought, too.
> >>
> >> "As Hollywood begins to navigate the #MeToo landscape," Tatiana Siegel
> >> reported, "one of the first casualties appears to be big-screen erotica.
> >> In the wake of the Harvey Weinstein scandal, studios are steering clear
> >> of sex." Alyssa Rosenberg, writing in the Washington Post, hopes that
> >> Hollywood's embarrassed executives are navigating "the end of a very
> >> narrow way of thinking about what's alluring." Instead of movies that
> >> objectify women, she suggests more films that portray sex and sexuality
> >> in intelligent ways.
> >>
> >> This reckoning is long overdue. And it can be extended to another genre
> >> that has distorted how men behave: war movies. Hollywood has shown
> >> itself capable of making excellent war movies (think THREE KINGS, PATHS
> >> OF GLORY, and THE BEST YEARS OF OUR LIVES), but most are problematic.
> >> Some of the biggest war movies of the post-9/11 era don't just show
> >> violence in ways that are often gratuitous and occasionally racist. They
> >> model a cliched form of masculinity that veers from simplistic to
> >> monstrous.
> > 
> > How gay is the guy that wrote this?
> > 
> >> For instance, you can see Rambo and John Wayne return to life in the
> >> latest war blockbuster, 12 STRONG, which was produced by Jerry
> >> Bruckheimer, who also brought us BLACK HAWK DOWN. 12 STRONG is an
> >> extravaganza about a Special Forces team that fought the Taliban in
> >> Afghanistan in the weeks and months after 9/11. During the movie's
> >> pivotal scene, the leader of the Green Berets, played by Chris Hemsworth
> >> (the grievously handsome star of the THOR franchise),
> > 
> > Ah.  That gay.
> > 
> >> decimates a hive
> > 
> > Can we throw him out of the bar yet?
> > 
> >> of Taliban fighters with his rifle ablaze as he gallops ahead on his
> >> fearless horse (yes, he's riding a horse).
> > 
> > Ah.  That gay.
> > 
> >   In the same way that
> >> Hemsworth's assault weapon goes rat-tat-tat and the bad guys fall like
> >> bulleted dominoes,
> > 
> > Ah.  That gay.
> > 
> >   the scene itself checks off one born-in-Hollywood
> >> cliché after another: of the rugged gunslinger, the warrior in camo,
> >> good versus evil, the modern vanquishing the profane, a man at his
> >> fullest.
> >>
> >> Whenever I write about the real-world impact of war movies-- and I've
> >> gone to bat against AMERICAN SNIPER, ZERO DARK THIRTY and 13 HOURS-- I
> >> always get responses along the lines of "Relax, these are just movies.
> >> Don't take them so seriously. They're harmless." That's when it becomes
> >> necessary to say that movies can create or reinforce narratives of
> >> history and gender that influence what people think and what they do.
> >> Boys and men develop their notions of masculinity from a variety of
> >> sources that include the films they watch (the extent to which this is
> >> true is, of course, open to debate). The time has come for Hollywood to
> >> turn away from war movies that, while satisfying to both a studio's
> >> bottom line and a flag-waving concept of patriotism, perpetuate a model
> >> of masculinity that does violence to us all.
> > 
> > I can't believe how much I hate this clown.
> > 
> > At least he's good looking
> > https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c2/Peter_maas...
> > 9.jpg/220px-Peter_maass_2009.jpg
> > 
> Wikipedia says he graduated from UC Berkeley. I'm guessing that has a 
> lot to do with his views. I'm surprised to see he's married to a woman. 
> I wonder who wears the pants in their house?

Read her Wiki page.  She's the stereotype slut from a Woody Allen movie.

-- 
Join your old RAT friends at
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1688985234647266/ 

	
From: moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com>
Subject: Re: 12 STRONG: The Left is Upset (Again)
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On 1/28/2018 3:26 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> This guy has some serious issues to work through. His obvious issues
> with the military aside, he can't even stand that Hemsworth is
> good-looking. "Greviously handsome"? WTF?
> 
> Oh, and contrary to the writer's claim, Hemsworth's Marines did a lot
> more than decimate the Taliban forces. They annihilated them.
> 
> 
> 
> -----------------
> https://theintercept.com/2018/01/27/12-strong-war-movies-masculinity
> 
> Peter Maass
> January 27 2018
> 
> The Hollywood Reporter published a surprising story earlier this month
> about film studios turning away from movies about sex. A biopic about
> Hugh Hefner is stalled, gone for the moment is a James Franco film about
> a 15-year-old Russian prostitute, and a remake of A STAR IS BORN is
> being re-thought, too.
> 
> "As Hollywood begins to navigate the #MeToo landscape," Tatiana Siegel
> reported, "one of the first casualties appears to be big-screen erotica.
> In the wake of the Harvey Weinstein scandal, studios are steering clear
> of sex." Alyssa Rosenberg, writing in the Washington Post, hopes that
> Hollywood's embarrassed executives are navigating "the end of a very
> narrow way of thinking about what's alluring." Instead of movies that
> objectify women, she suggests more films that portray sex and sexuality
> in intelligent ways.
> 
> This reckoning is long overdue. And it can be extended to another genre
> that has distorted how men behave: war movies. Hollywood has shown
> itself capable of making excellent war movies (think THREE KINGS, PATHS
> OF GLORY, and THE BEST YEARS OF OUR LIVES), but most are problematic.
> Some of the biggest war movies of the post-9/11 era don't just show
> violence in ways that are often gratuitous and occasionally racist. They
> model a cliched form of masculinity that veers from simplistic to
> monstrous.
> 
> For instance, you can see Rambo and John Wayne return to life in the
> latest war blockbuster, 12 STRONG, which was produced by Jerry
> Bruckheimer, who also brought us BLACK HAWK DOWN. 12 STRONG is an
> extravaganza about a Special Forces team that fought the Taliban in
> Afghanistan in the weeks and months after 9/11. During the movie's
> pivotal scene, the leader of the Green Berets, played by Chris Hemsworth
> (the grievously handsome star of the THOR franchise), decimates a hive
> of Taliban fighters with his rifle ablaze as he gallops ahead on his
> fearless horse (yes, he's riding a horse). In the same way that
> Hemsworth's assault weapon goes rat-tat-tat and the bad guys fall like
> bulleted dominoes, the scene itself checks off one born-in-Hollywood
> cliché after another: of the rugged gunslinger, the warrior in camo,
> good versus evil, the modern vanquishing the profane, a man at his
> fullest.
> 
> Whenever I write about the real-world impact of war movies-- and I've
> gone to bat against AMERICAN SNIPER, ZERO DARK THIRTY and 13 HOURS-- I
> always get responses along the lines of "Relax, these are just movies.
> Don't take them so seriously. They're harmless." That's when it becomes
> necessary to say that movies can create or reinforce narratives of
> history and gender that influence what people think and what they do.
> Boys and men develop their notions of masculinity from a variety of
> sources that include the films they watch (the extent to which this is
> true is, of course, open to debate). The time has come for Hollywood to
> turn away from war movies that, while satisfying to both a studio's
> bottom line and a flag-waving concept of patriotism, perpetuate a model
> of masculinity that does violence to us all.

Though I (fwiw) am neither upset, nor upset if the Left's upset, I'm 
curious to know which of this guy's ideas you find particularly absurd.

-- 

- - - - - - - -
   YOUR taste at work...
     http://www.moviepig.com 

	
From: BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com>
Subject: Re: 12 STRONG: The Left is Upset (Again)
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From: BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com>
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Subject: Re: 12 STRONG: The Left is Upset (Again)
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In article <pwsbC.537981$iX.302982@fx39.iad>,
 moviePig<pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:

> On 1/28/2018 3:26 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> > This guy has some serious issues to work through. His obvious issues
> > with the military aside, he can't even stand that Hemsworth is
> > good-looking. "Greviously handsome"? WTF?
> > 
> > Oh, and contrary to the writer's claim, Hemsworth's Marines did a lot
> > more than decimate the Taliban forces. They annihilated them.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -----------------
> > https://theintercept.com/2018/01/27/12-strong-war-movies-masculinity
> > 
> > Peter Maass
> > January 27 2018
> > 
> > The Hollywood Reporter published a surprising story earlier this month
> > about film studios turning away from movies about sex. A biopic about
> > Hugh Hefner is stalled, gone for the moment is a James Franco film about
> > a 15-year-old Russian prostitute, and a remake of A STAR IS BORN is
> > being re-thought, too.
> > 
> > "As Hollywood begins to navigate the #MeToo landscape," Tatiana Siegel
> > reported, "one of the first casualties appears to be big-screen erotica.
> > In the wake of the Harvey Weinstein scandal, studios are steering clear
> > of sex." Alyssa Rosenberg, writing in the Washington Post, hopes that
> > Hollywood's embarrassed executives are navigating "the end of a very
> > narrow way of thinking about what's alluring." Instead of movies that
> > objectify women, she suggests more films that portray sex and sexuality
> > in intelligent ways.
> > 
> > This reckoning is long overdue. And it can be extended to another genre
> > that has distorted how men behave: war movies. Hollywood has shown
> > itself capable of making excellent war movies (think THREE KINGS, PATHS
> > OF GLORY, and THE BEST YEARS OF OUR LIVES), but most are problematic.
> > Some of the biggest war movies of the post-9/11 era don't just show
> > violence in ways that are often gratuitous and occasionally racist. They
> > model a cliched form of masculinity that veers from simplistic to
> > monstrous.
> > 
> > For instance, you can see Rambo and John Wayne return to life in the
> > latest war blockbuster, 12 STRONG, which was produced by Jerry
> > Bruckheimer, who also brought us BLACK HAWK DOWN. 12 STRONG is an
> > extravaganza about a Special Forces team that fought the Taliban in
> > Afghanistan in the weeks and months after 9/11. During the movie's
> > pivotal scene, the leader of the Green Berets, played by Chris Hemsworth
> > (the grievously handsome star of the THOR franchise), decimates a hive
> > of Taliban fighters with his rifle ablaze as he gallops ahead on his
> > fearless horse (yes, he's riding a horse). In the same way that
> > Hemsworth's assault weapon goes rat-tat-tat and the bad guys fall like
> > bulleted dominoes, the scene itself checks off one born-in-Hollywood
> > cliché after another: of the rugged gunslinger, the warrior in camo,
> > good versus evil, the modern vanquishing the profane, a man at his
> > fullest.
> > 
> > Whenever I write about the real-world impact of war movies-- and I've
> > gone to bat against AMERICAN SNIPER, ZERO DARK THIRTY and 13 HOURS-- I
> > always get responses along the lines of "Relax, these are just movies.
> > Don't take them so seriously. They're harmless." That's when it becomes
> > necessary to say that movies can create or reinforce narratives of
> > history and gender that influence what people think and what they do.
> > Boys and men develop their notions of masculinity from a variety of
> > sources that include the films they watch (the extent to which this is
> > true is, of course, open to debate). The time has come for Hollywood to
> > turn away from war movies that, while satisfying to both a studio's
> > bottom line and a flag-waving concept of patriotism, perpetuate a model
> > of masculinity that does violence to us all.
> 
> Though I (fwiw) am neither upset, nor upset if the Left's upset, I'm 
> curious to know which of this guy's ideas you find particularly absurd.

Um... all of them? 

	
From: alvey <alvey@is.invalid>
Subject: Re: 12 STRONG: The Left is Upset (Again)
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From: alvey <alvey@is.invalid>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv,rec.arts.movies.current-films
Subject: Re: 12 STRONG: The Left is Upset (Again)
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On Sun, 28 Jan 2018 15:16:08 -0800, BTR1701 wrote:

> In article <pwsbC.537981$iX.302982@fx39.iad>,
>  moviePig<pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 1/28/2018 3:26 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>> This guy has some serious issues to work through. His obvious issues
>>> with the military aside, he can't even stand that Hemsworth is
>>> good-looking. "Greviously handsome"? WTF?
>>> 
>>> Oh, and contrary to the writer's claim, Hemsworth's Marines did a lot
>>> more than decimate the Taliban forces. They annihilated them.
>>> 
>>> -----------------
>>> https://theintercept.com/2018/01/27/12-strong-war-movies-masculinity
>>> 
>>> Peter Maass
>>> January 27 2018
>>> 
>>> The Hollywood Reporter published a surprising story earlier this month
>>> about film studios turning away from movies about sex. A biopic about
>>> Hugh Hefner is stalled, gone for the moment is a James Franco film about
>>> a 15-year-old Russian prostitute, and a remake of A STAR IS BORN is
>>> being re-thought, too.
>>> 
>>> "As Hollywood begins to navigate the #MeToo landscape," Tatiana Siegel
>>> reported, "one of the first casualties appears to be big-screen erotica.
>>> In the wake of the Harvey Weinstein scandal, studios are steering clear
>>> of sex." Alyssa Rosenberg, writing in the Washington Post, hopes that
>>> Hollywood's embarrassed executives are navigating "the end of a very
>>> narrow way of thinking about what's alluring." Instead of movies that
>>> objectify women, she suggests more films that portray sex and sexuality
>>> in intelligent ways.
>>> 
>>> This reckoning is long overdue. And it can be extended to another genre
>>> that has distorted how men behave: war movies. Hollywood has shown
>>> itself capable of making excellent war movies (think THREE KINGS, PATHS
>>> OF GLORY, and THE BEST YEARS OF OUR LIVES), but most are problematic.
>>> Some of the biggest war movies of the post-9/11 era don't just show
>>> violence in ways that are often gratuitous and occasionally racist. They
>>> model a cliched form of masculinity that veers from simplistic to
>>> monstrous.
>>> 
>>> For instance, you can see Rambo and John Wayne return to life in the
>>> latest war blockbuster, 12 STRONG, which was produced by Jerry
>>> Bruckheimer, who also brought us BLACK HAWK DOWN. 12 STRONG is an
>>> extravaganza about a Special Forces team that fought the Taliban in
>>> Afghanistan in the weeks and months after 9/11. During the movie's
>>> pivotal scene, the leader of the Green Berets, played by Chris Hemsworth
>>> (the grievously handsome star of the THOR franchise), decimates a hive
>>> of Taliban fighters with his rifle ablaze as he gallops ahead on his
>>> fearless horse (yes, he's riding a horse). In the same way that
>>> Hemsworth's assault weapon goes rat-tat-tat and the bad guys fall like
>>> bulleted dominoes, the scene itself checks off one born-in-Hollywood
>>> clich 

	
From: BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com>
Subject: Re: 12 STRONG: The Left is Upset (Again)
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Subject: Re: 12 STRONG: The Left is Upset (Again)
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In article <mnexe2xk3m7x$.l0brsjqxezsg$.dlg@40tude.net>,
 alvey<alvey@is.invalid> wrote:

> On Sun, 28 Jan 2018 15:16:08 -0800, BTR1701 wrote:
> 
> > In article <pwsbC.537981$iX.302982@fx39.iad>,
> >  moviePig<pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:
> > 
> >> On 1/28/2018 3:26 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> >>> This guy has some serious issues to work through. His obvious issues
> >>> with the military aside, he can't even stand that Hemsworth is
> >>> good-looking. "Greviously handsome"? WTF?
> >>> 
> >>> Oh, and contrary to the writer's claim, Hemsworth's Marines did a lot
> >>> more than decimate the Taliban forces. They annihilated them.
> >>> 
> >>> -----------------
> >>> https://theintercept.com/2018/01/27/12-strong-war-movies-masculinity
> >>> 
> >>> Peter Maass
> >>> January 27 2018
> >>> 
> >>> The Hollywood Reporter published a surprising story earlier this month
> >>> about film studios turning away from movies about sex. A biopic about
> >>> Hugh Hefner is stalled, gone for the moment is a James Franco film about
> >>> a 15-year-old Russian prostitute, and a remake of A STAR IS BORN is
> >>> being re-thought, too.
> >>> 
> >>> "As Hollywood begins to navigate the #MeToo landscape," Tatiana Siegel
> >>> reported, "one of the first casualties appears to be big-screen erotica.
> >>> In the wake of the Harvey Weinstein scandal, studios are steering clear
> >>> of sex." Alyssa Rosenberg, writing in the Washington Post, hopes that
> >>> Hollywood's embarrassed executives are navigating "the end of a very
> >>> narrow way of thinking about what's alluring." Instead of movies that
> >>> objectify women, she suggests more films that portray sex and sexuality
> >>> in intelligent ways.
> >>> 
> >>> This reckoning is long overdue. And it can be extended to another genre
> >>> that has distorted how men behave: war movies. Hollywood has shown
> >>> itself capable of making excellent war movies (think THREE KINGS, PATHS
> >>> OF GLORY, and THE BEST YEARS OF OUR LIVES), but most are problematic.
> >>> Some of the biggest war movies of the post-9/11 era don't just show
> >>> violence in ways that are often gratuitous and occasionally racist. They
> >>> model a cliched form of masculinity that veers from simplistic to
> >>> monstrous.
> >>> 
> >>> For instance, you can see Rambo and John Wayne return to life in the
> >>> latest war blockbuster, 12 STRONG, which was produced by Jerry
> >>> Bruckheimer, who also brought us BLACK HAWK DOWN. 12 STRONG is an
> >>> extravaganza about a Special Forces team that fought the Taliban in
> >>> Afghanistan in the weeks and months after 9/11. During the movie's
> >>> pivotal scene, the leader of the Green Berets, played by Chris Hemsworth
> >>> (the grievously handsome star of the THOR franchise), decimates a hive
> >>> of Taliban fighters with his rifle ablaze as he gallops ahead on his
> >>> fearless horse (yes, he's riding a horse). In the same way that
> >>> Hemsworth's assault weapon goes rat-tat-tat and the bad guys fall like
> >>> bulleted dominoes, the scene itself checks off one born-in-Hollywood
> >>> clich 

	
From: anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net>
Subject: Re: 12 STRONG: The Left is Upset (Again)
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Subject: Re: 12 STRONG: The Left is Upset (Again)
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In article<atropos-A61F0A.15411828012018@news.giganews.com>,
 BTR1701<atropos@mac.com> wrote:

> In article <mnexe2xk3m7x$.l0brsjqxezsg$.dlg@40tude.net>,
>  alvey<alvey@is.invalid> wrote:
> 
> > On Sun, 28 Jan 2018 15:16:08 -0800, BTR1701 wrote:
> > 
> > > In article <pwsbC.537981$iX.302982@fx39.iad>,
> > >  moviePig<pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:
> > > 
> > >> On 1/28/2018 3:26 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> > >>> This guy has some serious issues to work through. His obvious issues
> > >>> with the military aside, he can't even stand that Hemsworth is
> > >>> good-looking. "Greviously handsome"? WTF?
> > >>> 
> > >>> Oh, and contrary to the writer's claim, Hemsworth's Marines did a lot
> > >>> more than decimate the Taliban forces. They annihilated them.
> > >>> 
> > >>> -----------------
> > >>> https://theintercept.com/2018/01/27/12-strong-war-movies-masculinity
> > >>> 
> > >>> Peter Maass
> > >>> January 27 2018
> > >>> 
> > >>> The Hollywood Reporter published a surprising story earlier this month
> > >>> about film studios turning away from movies about sex. A biopic about
> > >>> Hugh Hefner is stalled, gone for the moment is a James Franco film about
> > >>> a 15-year-old Russian prostitute, and a remake of A STAR IS BORN is
> > >>> being re-thought, too.
> > >>> 
> > >>> "As Hollywood begins to navigate the #MeToo landscape," Tatiana Siegel
> > >>> reported, "one of the first casualties appears to be big-screen erotica.
> > >>> In the wake of the Harvey Weinstein scandal, studios are steering clear
> > >>> of sex." Alyssa Rosenberg, writing in the Washington Post, hopes that
> > >>> Hollywood's embarrassed executives are navigating "the end of a very
> > >>> narrow way of thinking about what's alluring." Instead of movies that
> > >>> objectify women, she suggests more films that portray sex and sexuality
> > >>> in intelligent ways.
> > >>> 
> > >>> This reckoning is long overdue. And it can be extended to another genre
> > >>> that has distorted how men behave: war movies. Hollywood has shown
> > >>> itself capable of making excellent war movies (think THREE KINGS, PATHS
> > >>> OF GLORY, and THE BEST YEARS OF OUR LIVES), but most are problematic.
> > >>> Some of the biggest war movies of the post-9/11 era don't just show
> > >>> violence in ways that are often gratuitous and occasionally racist. They
> > >>> model a cliched form of masculinity that veers from simplistic to
> > >>> monstrous.
> > >>> 
> > >>> For instance, you can see Rambo and John Wayne return to life in the
> > >>> latest war blockbuster, 12 STRONG, which was produced by Jerry
> > >>> Bruckheimer, who also brought us BLACK HAWK DOWN. 12 STRONG is an
> > >>> extravaganza about a Special Forces team that fought the Taliban in
> > >>> Afghanistan in the weeks and months after 9/11. During the movie's
> > >>> pivotal scene, the leader of the Green Berets, played by Chris Hemsworth
> > >>> (the grievously handsome star of the THOR franchise), decimates a hive
> > >>> of Taliban fighters with his rifle ablaze as he gallops ahead on his
> > >>> fearless horse (yes, he's riding a horse). In the same way that
> > >>> Hemsworth's assault weapon goes rat-tat-tat and the bad guys fall like
> > >>> bulleted dominoes, the scene itself checks off one born-in-Hollywood
> > >>> clich 

	
From: BTR1701 <no_email@invalid.invalid>
Subject: Re: 12 STRONG: The Left is Upset (Again)
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anim8rfsk<anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:

> In article<atropos-A61F0A.15411828012018@news.giganews.com>,
>  BTR1701<atropos@mac.com> wrote:
> 
>> In article <mnexe2xk3m7x$.l0brsjqxezsg$.dlg@40tude.net>,
>> alvey<alvey@is.invalid> wrote:
>> 
>>> On Sun, 28 Jan 2018 15:16:08 -0800, BTR1701 wrote:
>>> 
>>>> In article <pwsbC.537981$iX.302982@fx39.iad>,
>>>> moviePig<pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:

>>>>> Though I (fwiw) am neither upset, nor upset if the Left's upset, I'm 
>>>>> curious to know which of this guy's ideas you find particularly absurd.
>>>> 
>>>> Um... all of them?
>>> 
>>> Why is the Right always so inarticulate?
>> 
>> Why is it the Left reliably lacks any semblance of a sense of humor 
>> and/or is incapable of getting a movie reference in a movie newsgroup?
> 
> Ob Terminator 2.

Ding-ding!

How dare we make a movie about the men who went into Afghanistan on f*cking
horses to fight the Taliban and won. We should be making movies about women
in pink pussy hats screaming for their right to kill unborn children and
growing out their armpit hair. 

	
From: alvey <alvey@is.invalid>
Subject: Re: 12 STRONG: The Left is Upset (Again)
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From: alvey <alvey@is.invalid>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv,rec.arts.movies.current-films
Subject: Re: 12 STRONG: The Left is Upset (Again)
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On Sun, 28 Jan 2018 15:41:18 -0800, BTR1701 wrote:

> In article <mnexe2xk3m7x$.l0brsjqxezsg$.dlg@40tude.net>,
>  alvey<alvey@is.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> On Sun, 28 Jan 2018 15:16:08 -0800, BTR1701 wrote:
>> 
>>> In article <pwsbC.537981$iX.302982@fx39.iad>,
>>>  moviePig<pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On 1/28/2018 3:26 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>> This guy has some serious issues to work through. His obvious issues
>>>>> with the military aside, he can't even stand that Hemsworth is
>>>>> good-looking. "Greviously handsome"? WTF?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Oh, and contrary to the writer's claim, Hemsworth's Marines did a lot
>>>>> more than decimate the Taliban forces. They annihilated them.
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----------------
>>>>> https://theintercept.com/2018/01/27/12-strong-war-movies-masculinity
>>>>> 
>>>>> Peter Maass
>>>>> January 27 2018
>>>>> 
>>>>> The Hollywood Reporter published a surprising story earlier this month
>>>>> about film studios turning away from movies about sex. A biopic about
>>>>> Hugh Hefner is stalled, gone for the moment is a James Franco film about
>>>>> a 15-year-old Russian prostitute, and a remake of A STAR IS BORN is
>>>>> being re-thought, too.
>>>>> 
>>>>> "As Hollywood begins to navigate the #MeToo landscape," Tatiana Siegel
>>>>> reported, "one of the first casualties appears to be big-screen erotica.
>>>>> In the wake of the Harvey Weinstein scandal, studios are steering clear
>>>>> of sex." Alyssa Rosenberg, writing in the Washington Post, hopes that
>>>>> Hollywood's embarrassed executives are navigating "the end of a very
>>>>> narrow way of thinking about what's alluring." Instead of movies that
>>>>> objectify women, she suggests more films that portray sex and sexuality
>>>>> in intelligent ways.
>>>>> 
>>>>> This reckoning is long overdue. And it can be extended to another genre
>>>>> that has distorted how men behave: war movies. Hollywood has shown
>>>>> itself capable of making excellent war movies (think THREE KINGS, PATHS
>>>>> OF GLORY, and THE BEST YEARS OF OUR LIVES), but most are problematic.
>>>>> Some of the biggest war movies of the post-9/11 era don't just show
>>>>> violence in ways that are often gratuitous and occasionally racist. They
>>>>> model a cliched form of masculinity that veers from simplistic to
>>>>> monstrous.
>>>>> 
>>>>> For instance, you can see Rambo and John Wayne return to life in the
>>>>> latest war blockbuster, 12 STRONG, which was produced by Jerry
>>>>> Bruckheimer, who also brought us BLACK HAWK DOWN. 12 STRONG is an
>>>>> extravaganza about a Special Forces team that fought the Taliban in
>>>>> Afghanistan in the weeks and months after 9/11. During the movie's
>>>>> pivotal scene, the leader of the Green Berets, played by Chris Hemsworth
>>>>> (the grievously handsome star of the THOR franchise), decimates a hive
>>>>> of Taliban fighters with his rifle ablaze as he gallops ahead on his
>>>>> fearless horse (yes, he's riding a horse). In the same way that
>>>>> Hemsworth's assault weapon goes rat-tat-tat and the bad guys fall like
>>>>> bulleted dominoes, the scene itself checks off one born-in-Hollywood
>>>>> clich矡fter another: of the rugged gunslinger, the warrior in camo,
>>>>> good versus evil, the modern vanquishing the profane, a man at his
>>>>> fullest.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Whenever I write about the real-world impact of war movies-- and I've
>>>>> gone to bat against AMERICAN SNIPER, ZERO DARK THIRTY and 13 HOURS-- I
>>>>> always get responses along the lines of "Relax, these are just movies.
>>>>> Don't take them so seriously. They're harmless." That's when it becomes
>>>>> necessary to say that movies can create or reinforce narratives of
>>>>> history and gender that influence what people think and what they do.
>>>>> Boys and men develop their notions of masculinity from a variety of
>>>>> sources that include the films they watch (the extent to which this is
>>>>> true is, of course, open to debate). The time has come for Hollywood to
>>>>> turn away from war movies that, while satisfying to both a studio's
>>>>> bottom line and a flag-waving concept of patriotism, perpetuate a model
>>>>> of masculinity that does violence to us all.
>>>> 
>>>> Though I (fwiw) am neither upset, nor upset if the Left's upset, I'm 
>>>> curious to know which of this guy's ideas you find particularly absurd.
>>> 
>>> Um... all of them?
>> 
>> Why is the Right always so inarticulate?
> 
> Why is it the Left reliably lacks any semblance of a sense of humor 

Ashley, I'd have a small bet that more comedians are Left than Right. (See
'inarticulate')

> and/or is incapable of getting a movie reference in a movie newsgroup?

Rightttt.



alvey 

	
From: moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com>
Subject: Re: 12 STRONG: The Left is Upset (Again)
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Subject: Re: 12 STRONG: The Left is Upset (Again)
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Print Article
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On 1/28/2018 9:25 PM, alvey wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Jan 2018 15:41:18 -0800, BTR1701 wrote:
> 
>> In article <mnexe2xk3m7x$.l0brsjqxezsg$.dlg@40tude.net>,
>>   alvey<alvey@is.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 28 Jan 2018 15:16:08 -0800, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article <pwsbC.537981$iX.302982@fx39.iad>,
>>>>   moviePig<pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 1/28/2018 3:26 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>>> This guy has some serious issues to work through. His obvious issues
>>>>>> with the military aside, he can't even stand that Hemsworth is
>>>>>> good-looking. "Greviously handsome"? WTF?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Oh, and contrary to the writer's claim, Hemsworth's Marines did a lot
>>>>>> more than decimate the Taliban forces. They annihilated them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----------------
>>>>>> https://theintercept.com/2018/01/27/12-strong-war-movies-masculinity
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Peter Maass
>>>>>> January 27 2018
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Hollywood Reporter published a surprising story earlier this month
>>>>>> about film studios turning away from movies about sex. A biopic about
>>>>>> Hugh Hefner is stalled, gone for the moment is a James Franco film about
>>>>>> a 15-year-old Russian prostitute, and a remake of A STAR IS BORN is
>>>>>> being re-thought, too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "As Hollywood begins to navigate the #MeToo landscape," Tatiana Siegel
>>>>>> reported, "one of the first casualties appears to be big-screen erotica.
>>>>>> In the wake of the Harvey Weinstein scandal, studios are steering clear
>>>>>> of sex." Alyssa Rosenberg, writing in the Washington Post, hopes that
>>>>>> Hollywood's embarrassed executives are navigating "the end of a very
>>>>>> narrow way of thinking about what's alluring." Instead of movies that
>>>>>> objectify women, she suggests more films that portray sex and sexuality
>>>>>> in intelligent ways.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This reckoning is long overdue. And it can be extended to another genre
>>>>>> that has distorted how men behave: war movies. Hollywood has shown
>>>>>> itself capable of making excellent war movies (think THREE KINGS, PATHS
>>>>>> OF GLORY, and THE BEST YEARS OF OUR LIVES), but most are problematic.
>>>>>> Some of the biggest war movies of the post-9/11 era don't just show
>>>>>> violence in ways that are often gratuitous and occasionally racist. They
>>>>>> model a cliched form of masculinity that veers from simplistic to
>>>>>> monstrous.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For instance, you can see Rambo and John Wayne return to life in the
>>>>>> latest war blockbuster, 12 STRONG, which was produced by Jerry
>>>>>> Bruckheimer, who also brought us BLACK HAWK DOWN. 12 STRONG is an
>>>>>> extravaganza about a Special Forces team that fought the Taliban in
>>>>>> Afghanistan in the weeks and months after 9/11. During the movie's
>>>>>> pivotal scene, the leader of the Green Berets, played by Chris Hemsworth
>>>>>> (the grievously handsome star of the THOR franchise), decimates a hive
>>>>>> of Taliban fighters with his rifle ablaze as he gallops ahead on his
>>>>>> fearless horse (yes, he's riding a horse). In the same way that
>>>>>> Hemsworth's assault weapon goes rat-tat-tat and the bad guys fall like
>>>>>> bulleted dominoes, the scene itself checks off one born-in-Hollywood
>>>>>> clich矡fter another: of the rugged gunslinger, the warrior in camo,
>>>>>> good versus evil, the modern vanquishing the profane, a man at his
>>>>>> fullest.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Whenever I write about the real-world impact of war movies-- and I've
>>>>>> gone to bat against AMERICAN SNIPER, ZERO DARK THIRTY and 13 HOURS-- I
>>>>>> always get responses along the lines of "Relax, these are just movies.
>>>>>> Don't take them so seriously. They're harmless." That's when it becomes
>>>>>> necessary to say that movies can create or reinforce narratives of
>>>>>> history and gender that influence what people think and what they do.
>>>>>> Boys and men develop their notions of masculinity from a variety of
>>>>>> sources that include the films they watch (the extent to which this is
>>>>>> true is, of course, open to debate). The time has come for Hollywood to
>>>>>> turn away from war movies that, while satisfying to both a studio's
>>>>>> bottom line and a flag-waving concept of patriotism, perpetuate a model
>>>>>> of masculinity that does violence to us all.
>>>>>
>>>>> Though I (fwiw) am neither upset, nor upset if the Left's upset, I'm
>>>>> curious to know which of this guy's ideas you find particularly absurd.
>>>>
>>>> Um... all of them?
>>>
>>> Why is the Right always so inarticulate?
>>
>> Why is it the Left reliably lacks any semblance of a sense of humor
> 
> Ashley, I'd have a small bet that more comedians are Left than Right. (See
> 'inarticulate')
> 
>> and/or is incapable of getting a movie reference in a movie newsgroup?
> 
> Rightttt.

Not that this should necessarily make you feel less shamed, but I, too, 
had to look up the quote ...after learning it *was* a quote ...and the 
movie it was quoted from ...and seeing the clip.  But now it seems like 
only yesterday ...well, earlier today.

-- 

- - - - - - - -
   YOUR taste at work...
     http://www.moviepig.com 

	
From: RichA <rander3128@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: 12 STRONG: The Left is Upset (Again)
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On Monday, 29 January 2018 09:37:05 UTC-5, moviePig  wrote:
> On 1/28/2018 9:25 PM, alvey wrote:
> > On Sun, 28 Jan 2018 15:41:18 -0800, BTR1701 wrote:
> > 
> >> In article <mnexe2xk3m7x$.l0brsjqxezsg$.dlg@40tude.net>,
> >>   alvey<alvey@is.invalid> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Sun, 28 Jan 2018 15:16:08 -0800, BTR1701 wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> In article <pwsbC.537981$iX.302982@fx39.iad>,
> >>>>   moviePig<pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 1/28/2018 3:26 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> >>>>>> This guy has some serious issues to work through. His obvious issues
> >>>>>> with the military aside, he can't even stand that Hemsworth is
> >>>>>> good-looking. "Greviously handsome"? WTF?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Oh, and contrary to the writer's claim, Hemsworth's Marines did a lot
> >>>>>> more than decimate the Taliban forces. They annihilated them.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -----------------
> >>>>>> https://theintercept.com/2018/01/27/12-strong-war-movies-masculinity
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Peter Maass
> >>>>>> January 27 2018
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The Hollywood Reporter published a surprising story earlier this month
> >>>>>> about film studios turning away from movies about sex. A biopic about
> >>>>>> Hugh Hefner is stalled, gone for the moment is a James Franco film about
> >>>>>> a 15-year-old Russian prostitute, and a remake of A STAR IS BORN is
> >>>>>> being re-thought, too.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> "As Hollywood begins to navigate the #MeToo landscape," Tatiana Siegel
> >>>>>> reported, "one of the first casualties appears to be big-screen erotica.
> >>>>>> In the wake of the Harvey Weinstein scandal, studios are steering clear
> >>>>>> of sex." Alyssa Rosenberg, writing in the Washington Post, hopes that
> >>>>>> Hollywood's embarrassed executives are navigating "the end of a very
> >>>>>> narrow way of thinking about what's alluring." Instead of movies that
> >>>>>> objectify women, she suggests more films that portray sex and sexuality
> >>>>>> in intelligent ways.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> This reckoning is long overdue. And it can be extended to another genre
> >>>>>> that has distorted how men behave: war movies. Hollywood has shown
> >>>>>> itself capable of making excellent war movies (think THREE KINGS, PATHS
> >>>>>> OF GLORY, and THE BEST YEARS OF OUR LIVES), but most are problematic.
> >>>>>> Some of the biggest war movies of the post-9/11 era don't just show
> >>>>>> violence in ways that are often gratuitous and occasionally racist.. They
> >>>>>> model a cliched form of masculinity that veers from simplistic to
> >>>>>> monstrous.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> For instance, you can see Rambo and John Wayne return to life in the
> >>>>>> latest war blockbuster, 12 STRONG, which was produced by Jerry
> >>>>>> Bruckheimer, who also brought us BLACK HAWK DOWN. 12 STRONG is an
> >>>>>> extravaganza about a Special Forces team that fought the Taliban in
> >>>>>> Afghanistan in the weeks and months after 9/11. During the movie's
> >>>>>> pivotal scene, the leader of the Green Berets, played by Chris Hemsworth
> >>>>>> (the grievously handsome star of the THOR franchise), decimates a hive
> >>>>>> of Taliban fighters with his rifle ablaze as he gallops ahead on his
> >>>>>> fearless horse (yes, he's riding a horse). In the same way that
> >>>>>> Hemsworth's assault weapon goes rat-tat-tat and the bad guys fall like
> >>>>>> bulleted dominoes, the scene itself checks off one born-in-Hollywood
> >>>>>> clich矡fter another: of the rugged gunslinger, the warrior in camo,
> >>>>>> good versus evil, the modern vanquishing the profane, a man at his
> >>>>>> fullest.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Whenever I write about the real-world impact of war movies-- and I've
> >>>>>> gone to bat against AMERICAN SNIPER, ZERO DARK THIRTY and 13 HOURS-- I
> >>>>>> always get responses along the lines of "Relax, these are just movies.
> >>>>>> Don't take them so seriously. They're harmless." That's when it becomes
> >>>>>> necessary to say that movies can create or reinforce narratives of
> >>>>>> history and gender that influence what people think and what they do.
> >>>>>> Boys and men develop their notions of masculinity from a variety of
> >>>>>> sources that include the films they watch (the extent to which this is
> >>>>>> true is, of course, open to debate). The time has come for Hollywood to
> >>>>>> turn away from war movies that, while satisfying to both a studio's
> >>>>>> bottom line and a flag-waving concept of patriotism, perpetuate a model
> >>>>>> of masculinity that does violence to us all.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Though I (fwiw) am neither upset, nor upset if the Left's upset, I'm
> >>>>> curious to know which of this guy's ideas you find particularly absurd.
> >>>>
> >>>> Um... all of them?
> >>>
> >>> Why is the Right always so inarticulate?
> >>
> >> Why is it the Left reliably lacks any semblance of a sense of humor
> > 
> > Ashley, I'd have a small bet that more comedians are Left than Right. (See
> > 'inarticulate')
> > 
> >> and/or is incapable of getting a movie reference in a movie newsgroup?
> > 
> > Rightttt.
> 
> Not that this should necessarily make you feel less shamed, but I, too, 
> had to look up the quote ...after learning it *was* a quote ...and the 
> movie it was quoted from ...and seeing the clip.  But now it seems like 
> only yesterday ...well, earlier today.
 
The criticisms of the left-wing critics are illogical.  They bleat on about "the bigger picture" and
"it's more complex than that" ranting about George Bush and the poor portrayal of evil Muslims.  As
if the film-makers had time to shoe-horn in all the political junk that accompanied the war.  The
whole point is that this was a finite band of men who had a job to do and did it well.  How hard is
it for he left to understand that? They hate America and the military, that's pretty much what
drives their reviews.

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/12_strong/reviews/?page=4&sort= 

	
From: moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com>
Subject: Re: 12 STRONG: The Left is Upset (Again)
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On 1/29/2018 11:21 AM, RichA wrote:
> On Monday, 29 January 2018 09:37:05 UTC-5, moviePig  wrote:
>> On 1/28/2018 9:25 PM, alvey wrote:
>>> On Sun, 28 Jan 2018 15:41:18 -0800, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article <mnexe2xk3m7x$.l0brsjqxezsg$.dlg@40tude.net>,
>>>>    alvey<alvey@is.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 28 Jan 2018 15:16:08 -0800, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In article <pwsbC.537981$iX.302982@fx39.iad>,
>>>>>>    moviePig<pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 1/28/2018 3:26 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>>>>> This guy has some serious issues to work through. His obvious issues
>>>>>>>> with the military aside, he can't even stand that Hemsworth is
>>>>>>>> good-looking. "Greviously handsome"? WTF?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Oh, and contrary to the writer's claim, Hemsworth's Marines did a lot
>>>>>>>> more than decimate the Taliban forces. They annihilated them.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----------------
>>>>>>>> https://theintercept.com/2018/01/27/12-strong-war-movies-masculinity
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Peter Maass
>>>>>>>> January 27 2018
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The Hollywood Reporter published a surprising story earlier this month
>>>>>>>> about film studios turning away from movies about sex. A biopic about
>>>>>>>> Hugh Hefner is stalled, gone for the moment is a James Franco film about
>>>>>>>> a 15-year-old Russian prostitute, and a remake of A STAR IS BORN is
>>>>>>>> being re-thought, too.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "As Hollywood begins to navigate the #MeToo landscape," Tatiana Siegel
>>>>>>>> reported, "one of the first casualties appears to be big-screen erotica.
>>>>>>>> In the wake of the Harvey Weinstein scandal, studios are steering clear
>>>>>>>> of sex." Alyssa Rosenberg, writing in the Washington Post, hopes that
>>>>>>>> Hollywood's embarrassed executives are navigating "the end of a very
>>>>>>>> narrow way of thinking about what's alluring." Instead of movies that
>>>>>>>> objectify women, she suggests more films that portray sex and sexuality
>>>>>>>> in intelligent ways.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This reckoning is long overdue. And it can be extended to another genre
>>>>>>>> that has distorted how men behave: war movies. Hollywood has shown
>>>>>>>> itself capable of making excellent war movies (think THREE KINGS, PATHS
>>>>>>>> OF GLORY, and THE BEST YEARS OF OUR LIVES), but most are problematic.
>>>>>>>> Some of the biggest war movies of the post-9/11 era don't just show
>>>>>>>> violence in ways that are often gratuitous and occasionally racist. They
>>>>>>>> model a cliched form of masculinity that veers from simplistic to
>>>>>>>> monstrous.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For instance, you can see Rambo and John Wayne return to life in the
>>>>>>>> latest war blockbuster, 12 STRONG, which was produced by Jerry
>>>>>>>> Bruckheimer, who also brought us BLACK HAWK DOWN. 12 STRONG is an
>>>>>>>> extravaganza about a Special Forces team that fought the Taliban in
>>>>>>>> Afghanistan in the weeks and months after 9/11. During the movie's
>>>>>>>> pivotal scene, the leader of the Green Berets, played by Chris Hemsworth
>>>>>>>> (the grievously handsome star of the THOR franchise), decimates a hive
>>>>>>>> of Taliban fighters with his rifle ablaze as he gallops ahead on his
>>>>>>>> fearless horse (yes, he's riding a horse). In the same way that
>>>>>>>> Hemsworth's assault weapon goes rat-tat-tat and the bad guys fall like
>>>>>>>> bulleted dominoes, the scene itself checks off one born-in-Hollywood
>>>>>>>> clich矡fter another: of the rugged gunslinger, the warrior in camo,
>>>>>>>> good versus evil, the modern vanquishing the profane, a man at his
>>>>>>>> fullest.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Whenever I write about the real-world impact of war movies-- and I've
>>>>>>>> gone to bat against AMERICAN SNIPER, ZERO DARK THIRTY and 13 HOURS-- I
>>>>>>>> always get responses along the lines of "Relax, these are just movies.
>>>>>>>> Don't take them so seriously. They're harmless." That's when it becomes
>>>>>>>> necessary to say that movies can create or reinforce narratives of
>>>>>>>> history and gender that influence what people think and what they do.
>>>>>>>> Boys and men develop their notions of masculinity from a variety of
>>>>>>>> sources that include the films they watch (the extent to which this is
>>>>>>>> true is, of course, open to debate). The time has come for Hollywood to
>>>>>>>> turn away from war movies that, while satisfying to both a studio's
>>>>>>>> bottom line and a flag-waving concept of patriotism, perpetuate a model
>>>>>>>> of masculinity that does violence to us all.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Though I (fwiw) am neither upset, nor upset if the Left's upset, I'm
>>>>>>> curious to know which of this guy's ideas you find particularly absurd.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Um... all of them?
>>>>>
>>>>> Why is the Right always so inarticulate?
>>>>
>>>> Why is it the Left reliably lacks any semblance of a sense of humor
>>>
>>> Ashley, I'd have a small bet that more comedians are Left than Right. (See
>>> 'inarticulate')
>>>
>>>> and/or is incapable of getting a movie reference in a movie newsgroup?
>>>
>>> Rightttt.
>>
>> Not that this should necessarily make you feel less shamed, but I, too,
>> had to look up the quote ...after learning it *was* a quote ...and the
>> movie it was quoted from ...and seeing the clip.  But now it seems like
>> only yesterday ...well, earlier today.
>   
> The criticisms of the left-wing critics are illogical.  They bleat on about "the bigger picture"
and "it's more complex than that" ranting about George Bush and the poor portrayal of evil Muslims. 
As if the film-makers had time to shoe-horn in all the political junk that accompanied the war.  The
whole point is that this was a finite band of men who had a job to do and did it well.  How hard is
it for he left to understand that? They hate America and the military, that's pretty much what
drives their reviews.

Afaics, the cited article says very little in defense of the Taliban...

-- 

- - - - - - - -
   YOUR taste at work...
     http://www.moviepig.com 

	
From: alvey <alvey@is.invalid>
Subject: Re: 12 STRONG: The Left is Upset (Again)
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From: alvey <alvey@is.invalid>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv,rec.arts.movies.current-films
Subject: Re: 12 STRONG: The Left is Upset (Again)
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On Mon, 29 Jan 2018 09:37:01 -0500, moviePig wrote:

> On 1/28/2018 9:25 PM, alvey wrote:
>> On Sun, 28 Jan 2018 15:41:18 -0800, BTR1701 wrote:
>> 
>>> In article <mnexe2xk3m7x$.l0brsjqxezsg$.dlg@40tude.net>,
>>>   alvey<alvey@is.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 28 Jan 2018 15:16:08 -0800, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In article <pwsbC.537981$iX.302982@fx39.iad>,
>>>>>   moviePig<pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 1/28/2018 3:26 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>>>> This guy has some serious issues to work through. His obvious issues
>>>>>>> with the military aside, he can't even stand that Hemsworth is
>>>>>>> good-looking. "Greviously handsome"? WTF?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Oh, and contrary to the writer's claim, Hemsworth's Marines did a lot
>>>>>>> more than decimate the Taliban forces. They annihilated them.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----------------
>>>>>>> https://theintercept.com/2018/01/27/12-strong-war-movies-masculinity
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Peter Maass
>>>>>>> January 27 2018
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Hollywood Reporter published a surprising story earlier this month
>>>>>>> about film studios turning away from movies about sex. A biopic about
>>>>>>> Hugh Hefner is stalled, gone for the moment is a James Franco film about
>>>>>>> a 15-year-old Russian prostitute, and a remake of A STAR IS BORN is
>>>>>>> being re-thought, too.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "As Hollywood begins to navigate the #MeToo landscape," Tatiana Siegel
>>>>>>> reported, "one of the first casualties appears to be big-screen erotica.
>>>>>>> In the wake of the Harvey Weinstein scandal, studios are steering clear
>>>>>>> of sex." Alyssa Rosenberg, writing in the Washington Post, hopes that
>>>>>>> Hollywood's embarrassed executives are navigating "the end of a very
>>>>>>> narrow way of thinking about what's alluring." Instead of movies that
>>>>>>> objectify women, she suggests more films that portray sex and sexuality
>>>>>>> in intelligent ways.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This reckoning is long overdue. And it can be extended to another genre
>>>>>>> that has distorted how men behave: war movies. Hollywood has shown
>>>>>>> itself capable of making excellent war movies (think THREE KINGS, PATHS
>>>>>>> OF GLORY, and THE BEST YEARS OF OUR LIVES), but most are problematic.
>>>>>>> Some of the biggest war movies of the post-9/11 era don't just show
>>>>>>> violence in ways that are often gratuitous and occasionally racist. They
>>>>>>> model a cliched form of masculinity that veers from simplistic to
>>>>>>> monstrous.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For instance, you can see Rambo and John Wayne return to life in the
>>>>>>> latest war blockbuster, 12 STRONG, which was produced by Jerry
>>>>>>> Bruckheimer, who also brought us BLACK HAWK DOWN. 12 STRONG is an
>>>>>>> extravaganza about a Special Forces team that fought the Taliban in
>>>>>>> Afghanistan in the weeks and months after 9/11. During the movie's
>>>>>>> pivotal scene, the leader of the Green Berets, played by Chris Hemsworth
>>>>>>> (the grievously handsome star of the THOR franchise), decimates a hive
>>>>>>> of Taliban fighters with his rifle ablaze as he gallops ahead on his
>>>>>>> fearless horse (yes, he's riding a horse). In the same way that
>>>>>>> Hemsworth's assault weapon goes rat-tat-tat and the bad guys fall like
>>>>>>> bulleted dominoes, the scene itself checks off one born-in-Hollywood
>>>>>>> clich矡fter another: of the rugged gunslinger, the warrior in camo,
>>>>>>> good versus evil, the modern vanquishing the profane, a man at his
>>>>>>> fullest.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Whenever I write about the real-world impact of war movies-- and I've
>>>>>>> gone to bat against AMERICAN SNIPER, ZERO DARK THIRTY and 13 HOURS-- I
>>>>>>> always get responses along the lines of "Relax, these are just movies.
>>>>>>> Don't take them so seriously. They're harmless." That's when it becomes
>>>>>>> necessary to say that movies can create or reinforce narratives of
>>>>>>> history and gender that influence what people think and what they do.
>>>>>>> Boys and men develop their notions of masculinity from a variety of
>>>>>>> sources that include the films they watch (the extent to which this is
>>>>>>> true is, of course, open to debate). The time has come for Hollywood to
>>>>>>> turn away from war movies that, while satisfying to both a studio's
>>>>>>> bottom line and a flag-waving concept of patriotism, perpetuate a model
>>>>>>> of masculinity that does violence to us all.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Though I (fwiw) am neither upset, nor upset if the Left's upset, I'm
>>>>>> curious to know which of this guy's ideas you find particularly absurd.
>>>>>
>>>>> Um... all of them?
>>>>
>>>> Why is the Right always so inarticulate?
>>>
>>> Why is it the Left reliably lacks any semblance of a sense of humor
>> 
>> Ashley, I'd have a small bet that more comedians are Left than Right. (See
>> 'inarticulate')
>> 
>>> and/or is incapable of getting a movie reference in a movie newsgroup?
>> 
>> Rightttt.
> 
> Not that this should necessarily make you feel less shamed, but I, too, 
> had to look up the quote ...after learning it *was* a quote ...and the 
> movie it was quoted from ...and seeing the clip.  But now it seems like 
> only yesterday ...well, earlier today.

Having concluded that BTR1701 is... well, you know, I didn't bother
tracking it down. The only film I could think of with that line was 'Butch
Cassidy...'. But that didn't make any contextual sense, so it probably was.

And I'd opine that the argument of Peter Maas is perfectly valid. 



alvey 

	
From: moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com>
Subject: Re: 12 STRONG: The Left is Upset (Again)
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On 1/28/2018 6:16 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> In article <pwsbC.537981$iX.302982@fx39.iad>,
>   moviePig<pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 1/28/2018 3:26 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>> This guy has some serious issues to work through. His obvious issues
>>> with the military aside, he can't even stand that Hemsworth is
>>> good-looking. "Greviously handsome"? WTF?
>>>
>>> Oh, and contrary to the writer's claim, Hemsworth's Marines did a lot
>>> more than decimate the Taliban forces. They annihilated them.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----------------
>>> https://theintercept.com/2018/01/27/12-strong-war-movies-masculinity
>>>
>>> Peter Maass
>>> January 27 2018
>>>
>>> The Hollywood Reporter published a surprising story earlier this month
>>> about film studios turning away from movies about sex. A biopic about
>>> Hugh Hefner is stalled, gone for the moment is a James Franco film about
>>> a 15-year-old Russian prostitute, and a remake of A STAR IS BORN is
>>> being re-thought, too.
>>>
>>> "As Hollywood begins to navigate the #MeToo landscape," Tatiana Siegel
>>> reported, "one of the first casualties appears to be big-screen erotica.
>>> In the wake of the Harvey Weinstein scandal, studios are steering clear
>>> of sex." Alyssa Rosenberg, writing in the Washington Post, hopes that
>>> Hollywood's embarrassed executives are navigating "the end of a very
>>> narrow way of thinking about what's alluring." Instead of movies that
>>> objectify women, she suggests more films that portray sex and sexuality
>>> in intelligent ways.
>>>
>>> This reckoning is long overdue. And it can be extended to another genre
>>> that has distorted how men behave: war movies. Hollywood has shown
>>> itself capable of making excellent war movies (think THREE KINGS, PATHS
>>> OF GLORY, and THE BEST YEARS OF OUR LIVES), but most are problematic.
>>> Some of the biggest war movies of the post-9/11 era don't just show
>>> violence in ways that are often gratuitous and occasionally racist. They
>>> model a cliched form of masculinity that veers from simplistic to
>>> monstrous.
>>>
>>> For instance, you can see Rambo and John Wayne return to life in the
>>> latest war blockbuster, 12 STRONG, which was produced by Jerry
>>> Bruckheimer, who also brought us BLACK HAWK DOWN. 12 STRONG is an
>>> extravaganza about a Special Forces team that fought the Taliban in
>>> Afghanistan in the weeks and months after 9/11. During the movie's
>>> pivotal scene, the leader of the Green Berets, played by Chris Hemsworth
>>> (the grievously handsome star of the THOR franchise), decimates a hive
>>> of Taliban fighters with his rifle ablaze as he gallops ahead on his
>>> fearless horse (yes, he's riding a horse). In the same way that
>>> Hemsworth's assault weapon goes rat-tat-tat and the bad guys fall like
>>> bulleted dominoes, the scene itself checks off one born-in-Hollywood
>>> cliché after another: of the rugged gunslinger, the warrior in camo,
>>> good versus evil, the modern vanquishing the profane, a man at his
>>> fullest.
>>>
>>> Whenever I write about the real-world impact of war movies-- and I've
>>> gone to bat against AMERICAN SNIPER, ZERO DARK THIRTY and 13 HOURS-- I
>>> always get responses along the lines of "Relax, these are just movies.
>>> Don't take them so seriously. They're harmless." That's when it becomes
>>> necessary to say that movies can create or reinforce narratives of
>>> history and gender that influence what people think and what they do.
>>> Boys and men develop their notions of masculinity from a variety of
>>> sources that include the films they watch (the extent to which this is
>>> true is, of course, open to debate). The time has come for Hollywood to
>>> turn away from war movies that, while satisfying to both a studio's
>>> bottom line and a flag-waving concept of patriotism, perpetuate a model
>>> of masculinity that does violence to us all.
>>
>> Though I (fwiw) am neither upset, nor upset if the Left's upset, I'm
>> curious to know which of this guy's ideas you find particularly absurd.
> 
> Um... all of them?

Then let's take two:

    "Instead of movies that objectify women, [I suggest] more films that 
portray sex and sexuality in intelligent ways."

    "[Most war-movies] model a cliched form of masculinity that veers 
from simplistic to monstrous."

If each of those points is absurd, what's your alternative view?

-- 

- - - - - - - -
   YOUR taste at work...
     http://www.moviepig.com 

	
From: BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com>
Subject: Re: 12 STRONG: The Left is Upset (Again)
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In article <45GbC.1718$Ia3.404@fx44.iad>,
 moviePig<pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:

> On 1/28/2018 6:16 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> > In article <pwsbC.537981$iX.302982@fx39.iad>,
> >   moviePig<pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:
> > 
> >> On 1/28/2018 3:26 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> >>> This guy has some serious issues to work through. His obvious issues
> >>> with the military aside, he can't even stand that Hemsworth is
> >>> good-looking. "Greviously handsome"? WTF?
> >>>
> >>> Oh, and contrary to the writer's claim, Hemsworth's Marines did a lot
> >>> more than decimate the Taliban forces. They annihilated them.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----------------
> >>> https://theintercept.com/2018/01/27/12-strong-war-movies-masculinity
> >>>
> >>> Peter Maass
> >>> January 27 2018
> >>>
> >>> The Hollywood Reporter published a surprising story earlier this month
> >>> about film studios turning away from movies about sex. A biopic about
> >>> Hugh Hefner is stalled, gone for the moment is a James Franco film about
> >>> a 15-year-old Russian prostitute, and a remake of A STAR IS BORN is
> >>> being re-thought, too.
> >>>
> >>> "As Hollywood begins to navigate the #MeToo landscape," Tatiana Siegel
> >>> reported, "one of the first casualties appears to be big-screen erotica.
> >>> In the wake of the Harvey Weinstein scandal, studios are steering clear
> >>> of sex." Alyssa Rosenberg, writing in the Washington Post, hopes that
> >>> Hollywood's embarrassed executives are navigating "the end of a very
> >>> narrow way of thinking about what's alluring." Instead of movies that
> >>> objectify women, she suggests more films that portray sex and sexuality
> >>> in intelligent ways.
> >>>
> >>> This reckoning is long overdue. And it can be extended to another genre
> >>> that has distorted how men behave: war movies. Hollywood has shown
> >>> itself capable of making excellent war movies (think THREE KINGS, PATHS
> >>> OF GLORY, and THE BEST YEARS OF OUR LIVES), but most are problematic.
> >>> Some of the biggest war movies of the post-9/11 era don't just show
> >>> violence in ways that are often gratuitous and occasionally racist. They
> >>> model a cliched form of masculinity that veers from simplistic to
> >>> monstrous.
> >>>
> >>> For instance, you can see Rambo and John Wayne return to life in the
> >>> latest war blockbuster, 12 STRONG, which was produced by Jerry
> >>> Bruckheimer, who also brought us BLACK HAWK DOWN. 12 STRONG is an
> >>> extravaganza about a Special Forces team that fought the Taliban in
> >>> Afghanistan in the weeks and months after 9/11. During the movie's
> >>> pivotal scene, the leader of the Green Berets, played by Chris Hemsworth
> >>> (the grievously handsome star of the THOR franchise), decimates a hive
> >>> of Taliban fighters with his rifle ablaze as he gallops ahead on his
> >>> fearless horse (yes, he's riding a horse). In the same way that
> >>> Hemsworth's assault weapon goes rat-tat-tat and the bad guys fall like
> >>> bulleted dominoes, the scene itself checks off one born-in-Hollywood
> >>> cliché after another: of the rugged gunslinger, the warrior in camo,
> >>> good versus evil, the modern vanquishing the profane, a man at his
> >>> fullest.
> >>>
> >>> Whenever I write about the real-world impact of war movies-- and I've
> >>> gone to bat against AMERICAN SNIPER, ZERO DARK THIRTY and 13 HOURS-- I
> >>> always get responses along the lines of "Relax, these are just movies.
> >>> Don't take them so seriously. They're harmless." That's when it becomes
> >>> necessary to say that movies can create or reinforce narratives of
> >>> history and gender that influence what people think and what they do.
> >>> Boys and men develop their notions of masculinity from a variety of
> >>> sources that include the films they watch (the extent to which this is
> >>> true is, of course, open to debate). The time has come for Hollywood to
> >>> turn away from war movies that, while satisfying to both a studio's
> >>> bottom line and a flag-waving concept of patriotism, perpetuate a model
> >>> of masculinity that does violence to us all.
> >>
> >> Though I (fwiw) am neither upset, nor upset if the Left's upset, I'm
> >> curious to know which of this guy's ideas you find particularly absurd.
> > 
> > Um... all of them?
> 
> Then let's take two:
> 
>     "Instead of movies that objectify women, [I suggest] more films that 
> portray sex and sexuality in intelligent ways."
> 
>     "[Most war-movies] model a cliched form of masculinity that veers 
> from simplistic to monstrous."
> 
> If each of those points is absurd, what's your alternative view?

That they're neither simplistic nor monstrous and Hemsworth's looks are 
hardly 'grievous'. 

	
From: moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com>
Subject: Re: 12 STRONG: The Left is Upset (Again)
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On 1/29/2018 11:56 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
> In article <45GbC.1718$Ia3.404@fx44.iad>,
>   moviePig<pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 1/28/2018 6:16 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>> In article <pwsbC.537981$iX.302982@fx39.iad>,
>>>    moviePig<pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 1/28/2018 3:26 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>> This guy has some serious issues to work through. His obvious issues
>>>>> with the military aside, he can't even stand that Hemsworth is
>>>>> good-looking. "Greviously handsome"? WTF?
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh, and contrary to the writer's claim, Hemsworth's Marines did a lot
>>>>> more than decimate the Taliban forces. They annihilated them.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----------------
>>>>> https://theintercept.com/2018/01/27/12-strong-war-movies-masculinity
>>>>>
>>>>> Peter Maass
>>>>> January 27 2018
>>>>>
>>>>> The Hollywood Reporter published a surprising story earlier this month
>>>>> about film studios turning away from movies about sex. A biopic about
>>>>> Hugh Hefner is stalled, gone for the moment is a James Franco film about
>>>>> a 15-year-old Russian prostitute, and a remake of A STAR IS BORN is
>>>>> being re-thought, too.
>>>>>
>>>>> "As Hollywood begins to navigate the #MeToo landscape," Tatiana Siegel
>>>>> reported, "one of the first casualties appears to be big-screen erotica.
>>>>> In the wake of the Harvey Weinstein scandal, studios are steering clear
>>>>> of sex." Alyssa Rosenberg, writing in the Washington Post, hopes that
>>>>> Hollywood's embarrassed executives are navigating "the end of a very
>>>>> narrow way of thinking about what's alluring." Instead of movies that
>>>>> objectify women, she suggests more films that portray sex and sexuality
>>>>> in intelligent ways.
>>>>>
>>>>> This reckoning is long overdue. And it can be extended to another genre
>>>>> that has distorted how men behave: war movies. Hollywood has shown
>>>>> itself capable of making excellent war movies (think THREE KINGS, PATHS
>>>>> OF GLORY, and THE BEST YEARS OF OUR LIVES), but most are problematic.
>>>>> Some of the biggest war movies of the post-9/11 era don't just show
>>>>> violence in ways that are often gratuitous and occasionally racist. They
>>>>> model a cliched form of masculinity that veers from simplistic to
>>>>> monstrous.
>>>>>
>>>>> For instance, you can see Rambo and John Wayne return to life in the
>>>>> latest war blockbuster, 12 STRONG, which was produced by Jerry
>>>>> Bruckheimer, who also brought us BLACK HAWK DOWN. 12 STRONG is an
>>>>> extravaganza about a Special Forces team that fought the Taliban in
>>>>> Afghanistan in the weeks and months after 9/11. During the movie's
>>>>> pivotal scene, the leader of the Green Berets, played by Chris Hemsworth
>>>>> (the grievously handsome star of the THOR franchise), decimates a hive
>>>>> of Taliban fighters with his rifle ablaze as he gallops ahead on his
>>>>> fearless horse (yes, he's riding a horse). In the same way that
>>>>> Hemsworth's assault weapon goes rat-tat-tat and the bad guys fall like
>>>>> bulleted dominoes, the scene itself checks off one born-in-Hollywood
>>>>> cliché after another: of the rugged gunslinger, the warrior in camo,
>>>>> good versus evil, the modern vanquishing the profane, a man at his
>>>>> fullest.
>>>>>
>>>>> Whenever I write about the real-world impact of war movies-- and I've
>>>>> gone to bat against AMERICAN SNIPER, ZERO DARK THIRTY and 13 HOURS-- I
>>>>> always get responses along the lines of "Relax, these are just movies.
>>>>> Don't take them so seriously. They're harmless." That's when it becomes
>>>>> necessary to say that movies can create or reinforce narratives of
>>>>> history and gender that influence what people think and what they do.
>>>>> Boys and men develop their notions of masculinity from a variety of
>>>>> sources that include the films they watch (the extent to which this is
>>>>> true is, of course, open to debate). The time has come for Hollywood to
>>>>> turn away from war movies that, while satisfying to both a studio's
>>>>> bottom line and a flag-waving concept of patriotism, perpetuate a model
>>>>> of masculinity that does violence to us all.
>>>>
>>>> Though I (fwiw) am neither upset, nor upset if the Left's upset, I'm
>>>> curious to know which of this guy's ideas you find particularly absurd.
>>>
>>> Um... all of them?
>>
>> Then let's take two:
>>
>>      "Instead of movies that objectify women, [I suggest] more films that
>> portray sex and sexuality in intelligent ways."
>>
>>      "[Most war-movies] model a cliched form of masculinity that veers
>> from simplistic to monstrous."
>>
>> If each of those points is absurd, what's your alternative view?
> 
> That they're neither simplistic nor monstrous and Hemsworth's looks are
> hardly 'grievous'.

So, I infer that you in fact *don't* contest the first quote (about 
objectifying women).

In the second quote, he actually called Hemsworth "grievously 
*handsome*", which seems entirely analogous to "awfully good-looking" or 
"terribly attractive".  Moreover, in (non-Oscar) combat movies, 
'simplistic cliched masculinity' seems a rather common trope.

Point being that, while some of the Left-leaning loons you dig up and 
post here do occasionally illustrate a degree of entertaining lunacy, my 
sense is that you didn't bother to actually read this guy...

-- 

- - - - - - - -
   YOUR taste at work...
     http://www.moviepig.com 

	
From: BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com>
Subject: Re: 12 STRONG: The Left is Upset (Again)
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Subject: Re: 12 STRONG: The Left is Upset (Again)
References: <atropos-FADE79.12261328012018@news.giganews.com> <pwsbC.537981$iX.302982@fx39.iad> <atropos-AB6580.15160828012018@news.giganews.com> <45GbC.1718$Ia3.404@fx44.iad> <atropos-485159.08560429012018@news.giganews.com> <wVIbC.3044$at7.117@fx43.iad>
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Print Article
Forward Article
In article <wVIbC.3044$at7.117@fx43.iad>,
 moviePig<pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:

> On 1/29/2018 11:56 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
> > In article <45GbC.1718$Ia3.404@fx44.iad>,
> >   moviePig<pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:
> > 
> >> On 1/28/2018 6:16 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> >>> In article <pwsbC.537981$iX.302982@fx39.iad>,
> >>>    moviePig<pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:

> >>>> Though I (fwiw) am neither upset, nor upset if the Left's upset, I'm
> >>>> curious to know which of this guy's ideas you find particularly absurd.
> >>>
> >>> Um... all of them?
> >>
> >> Then let's take two:
> >>
> >>      "Instead of movies that objectify women, [I suggest] more films that
> >> portray sex and sexuality in intelligent ways."
> >>
> >>      "[Most war-movies] model a cliched form of masculinity that veers
> >> from simplistic to monstrous."
> >>
> >> If each of those points is absurd, what's your alternative view?
> > 
> > That they're neither simplistic nor monstrous and Hemsworth's looks are
> > hardly 'grievous'.
> 
> So, I infer that you in fact *don't* contest the first quote (about 
> objectifying women).

No, I'm just bored with that whole nonsense. Men are just as objectified 
in movies.

> In the second quote, he actually called Hemsworth "grievously 
> *handsome*", which seems entirely analogous to "awfully good-looking" or 
> "terribly attractive". Moreover, in (non-Oscar) combat movies, 
> 'simplistic cliched masculinity' seems a rather common trope.

Only if you go in with that mindset from the get-go. There was nothing 
simplistic or cliched in AMERICAN SNIPER or ZERO DARK THIRTY, which this 
preening ass lumped in with his whine about 12 STRONG.

> Point being that, while some of the Left-leaning loons you dig up and 
> post here do occasionally illustrate a degree of entertaining lunacy, my 
> sense is that you didn't bother to actually read this guy...

I read the entire thing. He's a lunatic who rises and sleeps under the 
blanket of freedom the men and women he loathes provide, then questions 
the manner in which they provide it. 

	
From: moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com>
Subject: Re: 12 STRONG: The Left is Upset (Again)
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Subject: Re: 12 STRONG: The Left is Upset (Again)
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<atropos-AB6580.15160828012018@news.giganews.com>
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<wVIbC.3044$at7.117@fx43.iad>
<atropos-0F0797.10181329012018@news.giganews.com>
From: moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com>
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On 1/29/2018 1:18 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> In article <wVIbC.3044$at7.117@fx43.iad>,
>   moviePig<pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 1/29/2018 11:56 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>> In article <45GbC.1718$Ia3.404@fx44.iad>,
>>>    moviePig<pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 1/28/2018 6:16 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>> In article <pwsbC.537981$iX.302982@fx39.iad>,
>>>>>     moviePig<pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:
> 
>>>>>> Though I (fwiw) am neither upset, nor upset if the Left's upset, I'm
>>>>>> curious to know which of this guy's ideas you find particularly absurd.
>>>>>
>>>>> Um... all of them?
>>>>
>>>> Then let's take two:
>>>>
>>>>       "Instead of movies that objectify women, [I suggest] more films that
>>>> portray sex and sexuality in intelligent ways."
>>>>
>>>>       "[Most war-movies] model a cliched form of masculinity that veers
>>>> from simplistic to monstrous."
>>>>
>>>> If each of those points is absurd, what's your alternative view?
>>>
>>> That they're neither simplistic nor monstrous and Hemsworth's looks are
>>> hardly 'grievous'.
>>
>> So, I infer that you in fact *don't* contest the first quote (about
>> objectifying women).
> 
> No, I'm just bored with that whole nonsense. Men are just as objectified
> in movies.
> 
>> In the second quote, he actually called Hemsworth "grievously
>> *handsome*", which seems entirely analogous to "awfully good-looking" or
>> "terribly attractive". Moreover, in (non-Oscar) combat movies,
>> 'simplistic cliched masculinity' seems a rather common trope.
> 
> Only if you go in with that mindset from the get-go. There was nothing
> simplistic or cliched in AMERICAN SNIPER or ZERO DARK THIRTY, which this
> preening ass lumped in with his whine about 12 STRONG.
> 
>> Point being that, while some of the Left-leaning loons you dig up and
>> post here do occasionally illustrate a degree of entertaining lunacy, my
>> sense is that you didn't bother to actually read this guy...
> 
> I read the entire thing. He's a lunatic who rises and sleeps under the
> blanket of freedom the men and women he loathes provide, then questions
> the manner in which they provide it.

Re whom you think he "loathes":

 
https://theintercept.com/2015/01/08/clint-eastwood-ignores-history-a...

-- 

- - - - - - - -
   YOUR taste at work...
     http://www.moviepig.com 

	
From: trotsky <gmsingh@email.com>
Subject: Re: 12 STRONG: The Left is Upset (Again)
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<atropos-485159.08560429012018@news.giganews.com>
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On 1/29/2018 12:18 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> In article <wVIbC.3044$at7.117@fx43.iad>,
>   moviePig<pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 1/29/2018 11:56 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>> In article <45GbC.1718$Ia3.404@fx44.iad>,
>>>    moviePig<pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 1/28/2018 6:16 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>> In article <pwsbC.537981$iX.302982@fx39.iad>,
>>>>>     moviePig<pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:
> 
>>>>>> Though I (fwiw) am neither upset, nor upset if the Left's upset, I'm
>>>>>> curious to know which of this guy's ideas you find particularly absurd.
>>>>>
>>>>> Um... all of them?
>>>>
>>>> Then let's take two:
>>>>
>>>>       "Instead of movies that objectify women, [I suggest] more films that
>>>> portray sex and sexuality in intelligent ways."
>>>>
>>>>       "[Most war-movies] model a cliched form of masculinity that veers
>>>> from simplistic to monstrous."
>>>>
>>>> If each of those points is absurd, what's your alternative view?
>>>
>>> That they're neither simplistic nor monstrous and Hemsworth's looks are
>>> hardly 'grievous'.
>>
>> So, I infer that you in fact *don't* contest the first quote (about
>> objectifying women).
> 
> No, I'm just bored with that whole nonsense. Men are just as objectified
> in movies.

You might be right, I'd assume you and Anim8r are just as attuned to 
seeing men's breasts in movies as us hetero guys are about seeing women's.

Dude, you really need to get your dosage changed on your meds.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus 

	
From: FPP <fredp151@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: 12 STRONG: The Left is Upset (Again)
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From: FPP <fredp151@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv,rec.arts.movies.current-films
Subject: Re: 12 STRONG: The Left is Upset (Again)
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On 1/28/18 5:54 PM, moviePig wrote:
> On 1/28/2018 3:26 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>> This guy has some serious issues to work through. His obvious issues
>> with the military aside, he can't even stand that Hemsworth is
>> good-looking. "Greviously handsome"? WTF?
>>
>> Oh, and contrary to the writer's claim, Hemsworth's Marines did a lot
>> more than decimate the Taliban forces. They annihilated them.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----------------
>> https://theintercept.com/2018/01/27/12-strong-war-movies-masculinity
>>
>> Peter Maass
>> January 27 2018
>>
>> The Hollywood Reporter published a surprising story earlier this month
>> about film studios turning away from movies about sex. A biopic about
>> Hugh Hefner is stalled, gone for the moment is a James Franco film about
>> a 15-year-old Russian prostitute, and a remake of A STAR IS BORN is
>> being re-thought, too.
>>
>> "As Hollywood begins to navigate the #MeToo landscape," Tatiana Siegel
>> reported, "one of the first casualties appears to be big-screen erotica.
>> In the wake of the Harvey Weinstein scandal, studios are steering clear
>> of sex." Alyssa Rosenberg, writing in the Washington Post, hopes that
>> Hollywood's embarrassed executives are navigating "the end of a very
>> narrow way of thinking about what's alluring." Instead of movies that
>> objectify women, she suggests more films that portray sex and sexuality
>> in intelligent ways.
>>
>> This reckoning is long overdue. And it can be extended to another genre
>> that has distorted how men behave: war movies. Hollywood has shown
>> itself capable of making excellent war movies (think THREE KINGS, PATHS
>> OF GLORY, and THE BEST YEARS OF OUR LIVES), but most are problematic.
>> Some of the biggest war movies of the post-9/11 era don't just show
>> violence in ways that are often gratuitous and occasionally racist. They
>> model a cliched form of masculinity that veers from simplistic to
>> monstrous.
>>
>> For instance, you can see Rambo and John Wayne return to life in the
>> latest war blockbuster, 12 STRONG, which was produced by Jerry
>> Bruckheimer, who also brought us BLACK HAWK DOWN. 12 STRONG is an
>> extravaganza about a Special Forces team that fought the Taliban in
>> Afghanistan in the weeks and months after 9/11. During the movie's
>> pivotal scene, the leader of the Green Berets, played by Chris Hemsworth
>> (the grievously handsome star of the THOR franchise), decimates a hive
>> of Taliban fighters with his rifle ablaze as he gallops ahead on his
>> fearless horse (yes, he's riding a horse). In the same way that
>> Hemsworth's assault weapon goes rat-tat-tat and the bad guys fall like
>> bulleted dominoes, the scene itself checks off one born-in-Hollywood
>> clich 

	
From: David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: 12 STRONG: The Left is Upset (Again)
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Subject: Re: 12 STRONG: The Left is Upset (Again)
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I'm just sick of the damn ad. 

	
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Print Article
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On 2018-01-28 3:26 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> This guy has some serious issues to work through. His obvious issues
> with the military aside, he can't even stand that Hemsworth is
> good-looking. "Greviously handsome"? WTF?
> 
> Oh, and contrary to the writer's claim, Hemsworth's Marines did a lot
> more than decimate the Taliban forces. They annihilated them.
> 
> 
> 
> -----------------
> https://theintercept.com/2018/01/27/12-strong-war-movies-masculinity
> 
> Peter Maass
> January 27 2018
> 
> The Hollywood Reporter published a surprising story earlier this month
> about film studios turning away from movies about sex. A biopic about
> Hugh Hefner is stalled, gone for the moment is a James Franco film about
> a 15-year-old Russian prostitute, and a remake of A STAR IS BORN is
> being re-thought, too.
> 
> "As Hollywood begins to navigate the #MeToo landscape," Tatiana Siegel
> reported, "one of the first casualties appears to be big-screen erotica.
> In the wake of the Harvey Weinstein scandal, studios are steering clear
> of sex." Alyssa Rosenberg, writing in the Washington Post, hopes that
> Hollywood's embarrassed executives are navigating "the end of a very
> narrow way of thinking about what's alluring." Instead of movies that
> objectify women, she suggests more films that portray sex and sexuality
> in intelligent ways.
> 
> This reckoning is long overdue. And it can be extended to another genre
> that has distorted how men behave: war movies. Hollywood has shown
> itself capable of making excellent war movies (think THREE KINGS, PATHS
> OF GLORY, and THE BEST YEARS OF OUR LIVES), but most are problematic.
> Some of the biggest war movies of the post-9/11 era don't just show
> violence in ways that are often gratuitous and occasionally racist. They
> model a cliched form of masculinity that veers from simplistic to
> monstrous.
> 
> For instance, you can see Rambo and John Wayne return to life in the
> latest war blockbuster, 12 STRONG, which was produced by Jerry
> Bruckheimer, who also brought us BLACK HAWK DOWN. 12 STRONG is an
> extravaganza about a Special Forces team that fought the Taliban in
> Afghanistan in the weeks and months after 9/11. During the movie's
> pivotal scene, the leader of the Green Berets, played by Chris Hemsworth
> (the grievously handsome star of the THOR franchise), decimates a hive
> of Taliban fighters with his rifle ablaze as he gallops ahead on his
> fearless horse (yes, he's riding a horse). In the same way that
> Hemsworth's assault weapon goes rat-tat-tat and the bad guys fall like
> bulleted dominoes, the scene itself checks off one born-in-Hollywood
> cliché after another: of the rugged gunslinger, the warrior in camo,
> good versus evil, the modern vanquishing the profane, a man at his
> fullest.
> 
> Whenever I write about the real-world impact of war movies-- and I've
> gone to bat against AMERICAN SNIPER, ZERO DARK THIRTY and 13 HOURS-- I
> always get responses along the lines of "Relax, these are just movies.
> Don't take them so seriously. They're harmless." That's when it becomes
> necessary to say that movies can create or reinforce narratives of
> history and gender that influence what people think and what they do.
> Boys and men develop their notions of masculinity from a variety of
> sources that include the films they watch (the extent to which this is
> true is, of course, open to debate). The time has come for Hollywood to
> turn away from war movies that, while satisfying to both a studio's
> bottom line and a flag-waving concept of patriotism, perpetuate a model
> of masculinity that does violence to us all.
> 
Maybe he needs to make a war movie himself. I'm picturing something 
starring the footy-pajama guy that was mocked so widely by conservatives 
in the Obama presidency. Maybe call it Pajama Boy Goes to War?

Of course Pajama Boy couldn't *really* go to war. That would be mean and 
masculine. So Pajama Boy's war is going to have to be a series of 
marches *against* war, carefully strategized over hot chocolate in his 
parents' basement.

-- 
Rhino 

	
From: anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net>
Subject: Re: 12 STRONG: The Left is Upset (Again)
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From: anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv,rec.arts.movies.current-films
Subject: Re: 12 STRONG: The Left is Upset (Again)
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In article <p4lod3$eob$1@dont-email.me>,
 Rhino<no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

> On 2018-01-28 3:26 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> > This guy has some serious issues to work through. His obvious issues
> > with the military aside, he can't even stand that Hemsworth is
> > good-looking. "Greviously handsome"? WTF?
> > 
> > Oh, and contrary to the writer's claim, Hemsworth's Marines did a lot
> > more than decimate the Taliban forces. They annihilated them.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -----------------
> > https://theintercept.com/2018/01/27/12-strong-war-movies-masculinity
> > 
> > Peter Maass
> > January 27 2018
> > 
> > The Hollywood Reporter published a surprising story earlier this month
> > about film studios turning away from movies about sex. A biopic about
> > Hugh Hefner is stalled, gone for the moment is a James Franco film about
> > a 15-year-old Russian prostitute, and a remake of A STAR IS BORN is
> > being re-thought, too.
> > 
> > "As Hollywood begins to navigate the #MeToo landscape," Tatiana Siegel
> > reported, "one of the first casualties appears to be big-screen erotica.
> > In the wake of the Harvey Weinstein scandal, studios are steering clear
> > of sex." Alyssa Rosenberg, writing in the Washington Post, hopes that
> > Hollywood's embarrassed executives are navigating "the end of a very
> > narrow way of thinking about what's alluring." Instead of movies that
> > objectify women, she suggests more films that portray sex and sexuality
> > in intelligent ways.
> > 
> > This reckoning is long overdue. And it can be extended to another genre
> > that has distorted how men behave: war movies. Hollywood has shown
> > itself capable of making excellent war movies (think THREE KINGS, PATHS
> > OF GLORY, and THE BEST YEARS OF OUR LIVES), but most are problematic.
> > Some of the biggest war movies of the post-9/11 era don't just show
> > violence in ways that are often gratuitous and occasionally racist. They
> > model a cliched form of masculinity that veers from simplistic to
> > monstrous.
> > 
> > For instance, you can see Rambo and John Wayne return to life in the
> > latest war blockbuster, 12 STRONG, which was produced by Jerry
> > Bruckheimer, who also brought us BLACK HAWK DOWN. 12 STRONG is an
> > extravaganza about a Special Forces team that fought the Taliban in
> > Afghanistan in the weeks and months after 9/11. During the movie's
> > pivotal scene, the leader of the Green Berets, played by Chris Hemsworth
> > (the grievously handsome star of the THOR franchise), decimates a hive
> > of Taliban fighters with his rifle ablaze as he gallops ahead on his
> > fearless horse (yes, he's riding a horse). In the same way that
> > Hemsworth's assault weapon goes rat-tat-tat and the bad guys fall like
> > bulleted dominoes, the scene itself checks off one born-in-Hollywood
> > cliché after another: of the rugged gunslinger, the warrior in camo,
> > good versus evil, the modern vanquishing the profane, a man at his
> > fullest.
> > 
> > Whenever I write about the real-world impact of war movies-- and I've
> > gone to bat against AMERICAN SNIPER, ZERO DARK THIRTY and 13 HOURS-- I
> > always get responses along the lines of "Relax, these are just movies.
> > Don't take them so seriously. They're harmless." That's when it becomes
> > necessary to say that movies can create or reinforce narratives of
> > history and gender that influence what people think and what they do.
> > Boys and men develop their notions of masculinity from a variety of
> > sources that include the films they watch (the extent to which this is
> > true is, of course, open to debate). The time has come for Hollywood to
> > turn away from war movies that, while satisfying to both a studio's
> > bottom line and a flag-waving concept of patriotism, perpetuate a model
> > of masculinity that does violence to us all.
> > 
> Maybe he needs to make a war movie himself. I'm picturing something 
> starring the footy-pajama guy that was mocked so widely by conservatives 
> in the Obama presidency. Maybe call it Pajama Boy Goes to War?
> 
> Of course Pajama Boy couldn't *really* go to war. That would be mean and 
> masculine. So Pajama Boy's war is going to have to be a series of 
> marches *against* war, carefully strategized over hot chocolate in his 
> parents' basement.

As long as there are horses.

-- 
Join your old RAT friends at
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1688985234647266/ 

	
From: Neill Massello <nmassello@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: 12 STRONG: The Left is Upset (Again)
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From: nmassello@yahoo.com (Neill Massello)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv,rec.arts.movies.current-films
Subject: Re: 12 STRONG: The Left is Upset (Again)
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BTR1701<atropos@mac.com> wrote:

> This guy has some serious issues to work through. His obvious issues 
> with the military aside, he can't even stand that Hemsworth is 
> good-looking. "Greviously handsome"? WTF?

Well, most men envy the Hemsworths' looks. But he lost me when he lumped
in two of the best war movies ever made with a superficial,
flash-in-the-pan entertainment. 

> Oh, and contrary to the writer's claim, Hemsworth's Marines did a lot
> more than decimate the Taliban forces. They annihilated them.

He's a half-learned twit who doesn't know what "decimate" means. He's
also a pussy. Unfortunately, movie commentary tends to attract such
people. 

	
From: Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com>
Subject: Re: 12 STRONG: The Left is Upset (Again)
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From: "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv,rec.arts.movies.current-films
Subject: Re: 12 STRONG: The Left is Upset (Again)
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BTR1701<atropos@mac.com> wrote:

>This guy has some serious issues to work through. His obvious issues 
>with the military aside, he can't even stand that Hemsworth is 
>good-looking. "Greviously handsome"? WTF?

>Oh, and contrary to the writer's claim, Hemsworth's Marines did a lot 
>more than decimate the Taliban forces. They annihilated them.

>-----------------
>https://theintercept.com/2018/01/27/12-strong-war-movies-masculinity

>Peter Maass
>January 27 2018

>The Hollywood Reporter published a surprising story earlier this month 
>about film studios turning away from movies about sex. A biopic about 
>Hugh Hefner is stalled, gone for the moment is a James Franco film about 
>a 15-year-old Russian prostitute, and a remake of A STAR IS BORN is 
>being re-thought, too.

There have been four versions of this movie! When does it end?

>"As Hollywood begins to navigate the #MeToo landscape," Tatiana Siegel 
>reported, "one of the first casualties appears to be big-screen erotica. 
>In the wake of the Harvey Weinstein scandal, studios are steering clear 
>of sex." Alyssa Rosenberg, writing in the Washington Post, hopes that 
>Hollywood's embarrassed executives are navigating "the end of a very 
>narrow way of thinking about what's alluring." Instead of movies that 
>objectify women, she suggests more films that portray sex and sexuality 
>in intelligent ways.

>This reckoning is long overdue. And it can be extended to another genre 
>that has distorted how men behave: war movies. Hollywood has shown 
>itself capable of making excellent war movies (think THREE KINGS, PATHS 
>OF GLORY, and THE BEST YEARS OF OUR LIVES), but most are problematic. 
>Some of the biggest war movies of the post-9/11 era don't just show 
>violence in ways that are often gratuitous and occasionally racist. They 
>model a cliched form of masculinity that veers from simplistic to 
>monstrous.

Yeah! The violence in war movies is always directed against the enemy!
Racism!

>For instance, you can see Rambo and John Wayne return to life in the 
>latest war blockbuster, 12 STRONG, which was produced by Jerry 
>Bruckheimer, who also brought us BLACK HAWK DOWN. 12 STRONG is an 
>extravaganza about a Special Forces team that fought the Taliban in 
>Afghanistan in the weeks and months after 9/11. During the movie's 
>pivotal scene, the leader of the Green Berets, played by Chris Hemsworth 
>(the grievously handsome star of the THOR franchise), decimates a hive 
>of Taliban fighters with his rifle ablaze as he gallops ahead on his 
>fearless horse (yes, he's riding a horse). In the same way that 
>Hemsworth's assault weapon goes rat-tat-tat and the bad guys fall like 
>bulleted dominoes, the scene itself checks off one born-in-Hollywood 
>cliche after another: of the rugged gunslinger, the warrior in camo, 
>good versus evil, the modern vanquishing the profane, a man at his 
>fullest.

Um

Did they discriminate against some trans-gender horse in casting?
I can't follow this.

>Whenever I write about the real-world impact of war movies-- and I've 
>gone to bat against AMERICAN SNIPER, ZERO DARK THIRTY and 13 HOURS-- I 
>always get responses along the lines of "Relax, these are just movies. 
>Don't take them so seriously. They're harmless." That's when it becomes 
>necessary to say that movies can create or reinforce narratives of 
>history and gender that influence what people think and what they do. 
>Boys and men develop their notions of masculinity from a variety of 
>sources that include the films they watch (the extent to which this is 
>true is, of course, open to debate). The time has come for Hollywood to 
>turn away from war movies that, while satisfying to both a studio's 
>bottom line and a flag-waving concept of patriotism, perpetuate a model 
>of masculinity that does violence to us all.

Ok.

I'm willing to entertain your argument that the Taliban aren't among the
most horrifically evil political force there ever was and they shouldn't
all be shot dead with extreme prejudice. There was just another bombing
yesterday, this time using an ambulance to gain sympathy at checkpoints.

I must have missed the argument. What was it again? 

	
From: Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com>
Subject: Re: 12 STRONG: The Left is Upset (Again)
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Subject: Re: 12 STRONG: The Left is Upset (Again)
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BTR1701<atropos@mac.com> wrote:

>This guy has some serious issues to work through. His obvious issues 
>with the military aside, he can't even stand that Hemsworth is 
>good-looking. "Greviously handsome"? WTF? . . . 

Years ago, I objected to Chris Hemsworth playing Thor. He just doesn't
look like a Viking to me, despite the beard.

He got cast 'cuz he tested really really well with women who either want
to sleep with him or mother him or both. Hollywood casting is so shallow. 

	
From: anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net>
Subject: Re: 12 STRONG: The Left is Upset (Again)
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From: anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net>
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Subject: Re: 12 STRONG: The Left is Upset (Again)
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In article <p4lref$gpv$1@news.albasani.net>,
 "Adam H. Kerman"<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> BTR1701<atropos@mac.com> wrote:
> 
> >This guy has some serious issues to work through. His obvious issues 
> >with the military aside, he can't even stand that Hemsworth is 
> >good-looking. "Greviously handsome"? WTF? . . . 
> 
> Years ago, I objected to Chris Hemsworth playing Thor. He just doesn't
> look like a Viking to me, despite the beard.

But he's got that Norse accent!

And the Marvel Thor doesn't *have* a beard.

-- 
Join your old RAT friends at
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1688985234647266/ 

	
From: Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com>
Subject: Re: 12 STRONG: The Left is Upset (Again)
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From: "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv,rec.arts.movies.current-films
Subject: Re: 12 STRONG: The Left is Upset (Again)
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anim8rfsk<anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>In article <p4lref$gpv$1@news.albasani.net>,
> "Adam H. Kerman"<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>
>> BTR1701<atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>> 
>> >This guy has some serious issues to work through. His obvious issues 
>> >with the military aside, he can't even stand that Hemsworth is 
>> >good-looking. "Greviously handsome"? WTF? . . . 
>> 
>> Years ago, I objected to Chris Hemsworth playing Thor. He just doesn't
>> look like a Viking to me, despite the beard.
>
>But he's got that Norse accent!
>
>And the Marvel Thor doesn't *have* a beard.

Yeah, well, he doesn't look at all like a Viking in the comic book
either. He saw Vikings one day and decided to play dressup? 

	
From: anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net>
Subject: Re: 12 STRONG: The Left is Upset (Again)
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In article <p4m21l$t1s$1@dont-email.me>,
 "Adam H. Kerman"<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> anim8rfsk<anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
> >In article <p4lref$gpv$1@news.albasani.net>,
> > "Adam H. Kerman"<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> >
> >> BTR1701<atropos@mac.com> wrote:
> >> 
> >> >This guy has some serious issues to work through. His obvious issues 
> >> >with the military aside, he can't even stand that Hemsworth is 
> >> >good-looking. "Greviously handsome"? WTF? . . . 
> >> 
> >> Years ago, I objected to Chris Hemsworth playing Thor. He just doesn't
> >> look like a Viking to me, despite the beard.
> >
> >But he's got that Norse accent!
> >
> >And the Marvel Thor doesn't *have* a beard.
> 
> Yeah, well, he doesn't look at all like a Viking in the comic book
> either. He saw Vikings one day and decided to play dressup?

Other way 'round.  He's the real Thor.  The birth of Asgard was the Star 
of Bethlehem.  (yeah, don't think about that too hard)

-- 
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From: Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com>
Subject: Re: 12 STRONG: The Left is Upset (Again)
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From: "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv,rec.arts.movies.current-films
Subject: Re: 12 STRONG: The Left is Upset (Again)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2018 03:59:56 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <p4m67s$eaq$1@dont-email.me>
References: <atropos-FADE79.12261328012018@news.giganews.com> <anim8rfsk-EB662A.18232428012018@news.easynews.com> <p4m21l$t1s$1@dont-email.me> <anim8rfsk-AE96E0.20374928012018@news.easynews.com>
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anim8rfsk<anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>In article <p4m21l$t1s$1@dont-email.me>,
> "Adam H. Kerman"<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>
>> anim8rfsk<anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>> >In article <p4lref$gpv$1@news.albasani.net>,
>> > "Adam H. Kerman"<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> BTR1701<atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>> >> 
>> >> >This guy has some serious issues to work through. His obvious issues 
>> >> >with the military aside, he can't even stand that Hemsworth is 
>> >> >good-looking. "Greviously handsome"? WTF? . . . 
>> >> 
>> >> Years ago, I objected to Chris Hemsworth playing Thor. He just doesn't
>> >> look like a Viking to me, despite the beard.
>> >
>> >But he's got that Norse accent!
>> >
>> >And the Marvel Thor doesn't *have* a beard.
>> 
>> Yeah, well, he doesn't look at all like a Viking in the comic book
>> either. He saw Vikings one day and decided to play dressup?
>
>Other way 'round.  He's the real Thor.

I remember that the movies got it all changed. I'm making fun of the guy
for playing dressup.

>The birth of Asgard was the Star of Bethlehem.  (yeah, don't think about
>that too hard)

Sounds like a Doctor Who plot. 

	
From: BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com>
Subject: Re: 12 STRONG: The Left is Upset (Again)
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From: BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv,rec.arts.movies.current-films
Subject: Re: 12 STRONG: The Left is Upset (Again)
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In article <p4lref$gpv$1@news.albasani.net>,
 "Adam H. Kerman"<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> BTR1701<atropos@mac.com> wrote:
> 
> >This guy has some serious issues to work through. His obvious issues 
> >with the military aside, he can't even stand that Hemsworth is 
> >good-looking. "Greviously handsome"? WTF? . . . 
> 
> Years ago, I objected to Chris Hemsworth playing Thor.

I think he's done a good job in the role. He has surprisingly good 
comedic timing. 

	
From: trotsky <gmsingh@email.com>
Subject: Re: 12 STRONG: The Left is Upset (Again)
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Subject: Re: 12 STRONG: The Left is Upset (Again)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv,rec.arts.movies.current-films
References: <atropos-FADE79.12261328012018@news.giganews.com>
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On 1/29/18 4:42 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
> In article <p4lref$gpv$1@news.albasani.net>,
>   "Adam H. Kerman"<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> 
>> BTR1701<atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>
>>> This guy has some serious issues to work through. His obvious issues
>>> with the military aside, he can't even stand that Hemsworth is
>>> good-looking. "Greviously handsome"? WTF? . . .
>>
>> Years ago, I objected to Chris Hemsworth playing Thor.
> 
> I think he's done a good job in the role. He has surprisingly good
> comedic timing.


What's surprising about it? 

	
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From: Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net>
Subject: Re: 12 STRONG: The Left is Upset (Again)
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From: Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv,rec.arts.movies.current-films
Subject: Re: 12 STRONG: The Left is Upset (Again)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2018 10:08:47 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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atropos@mac.com wrote:

>This guy has some serious issues to work through. His obvious issues 
>with the military aside, he can't even stand that Hemsworth is 
>good-looking. "Greviously handsome"? WTF?
>
>Oh, and contrary to the writer's claim, Hemsworth's Marines did a lot 
>more than decimate the Taliban forces. They annihilated them.

Is this the guy who cried like a baby after firing a gun?