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From: Rich A <rander3127@gmail.com>
Subject: Windows 10. Horrible!
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Subject: Windows 10. Horrible!
From: Rich A <rander3127@gmail.com>
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Wow!  Didn't know it had so many issues!  Made a horrific mess of running multiple different
displays (even with specific video card drivers), hides tons of stuff that I normally use (like
control panel). Boxes the active desktop into a frame INSIDE the main computer screen, so it's
smaller.  I'm sure there is a way around it, but I couldn't be bothered. There are myriad issues
with it, which I found out looking up problems online.  Windows 8.1 is FAR better, IMO. 

	
Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
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From: David Taylor <david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 08:34:48 +0000
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On 30/10/2017 07:17, Rich A wrote:
> Wow!  Didn't know it had so many issues!  Made a horrific mess of running multiple different
displays (even with specific video card drivers), hides tons of stuff that I normally use (like
control panel). Boxes the active desktop into a frame INSIDE the main computer screen, so it's
smaller.  I'm sure there is a way around it, but I couldn't be bothered. There are myriad issues
with it, which I found out looking up problems online.  Windows 8.1 is FAR better, IMO.

Like any new program or tool, you need to spend some time learning how 
to use Windows-10 to best suit yourself.  You can easily add Control 
Panel to the start menu, if you wish (although the Control Panel is 
gradually being phased out).  I've never seen the "active desktop boxed 
in a frame" on any of my Win-10 systems, so I can't help you there.  It 
runs all my photo programs without problem - Paint Shop Pro 9 & X, 
GeoSetter, PIE Studio, JPEG Crop, etc. etc. using dual displays without 
any issues.

If you prefer a Windows-7 start menu style, try the free Classic Shell:

   http://www.classicshell.net/

-- 
Cheers,
David
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu 

	
Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
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From: sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2017 06:30:44 -0700
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On 10/30/2017 1:34 AM, David Taylor wrote:
> On 30/10/2017 07:17, Rich A wrote:
>> Wow!  Didn't know it had so many issues!  Made a horrific mess of 
>> running multiple different displays (even with specific video card 
>> drivers), hides tons of stuff that I normally use (like control 
>> panel). Boxes the active desktop into a frame INSIDE the main computer 
>> screen, so it's smaller.  I'm sure there is a way around it, but I 
>> couldn't be bothered. There are myriad issues with it, which I found 
>> out looking up problems online.  Windows 8.1 is FAR better, IMO.
> 
> Like any new program or tool, you need to spend some time learning how 
> to use Windows-10 to best suit yourself.  You can easily add Control 
> Panel to the start menu, if you wish (although the Control Panel is 
> gradually being phased out).  I've never seen the "active desktop boxed 
> in a frame" on any of my Win-10 systems, so I can't help you there.  It 
> runs all my photo programs without problem - Paint Shop Pro 9 & X, 
> GeoSetter, PIE Studio, JPEG Crop, etc. etc. using dual displays without 
> any issues.
> 
> If you prefer a Windows-7 start menu style, try the free Classic Shell:
> 
>    http://www.classicshell.net/

Windows 10 solves many issues with Windows 8.1. Classic Shell is a great 
addition, though you need to keep it updated because Windows 10 updates 
will often break it. I was hesitant to take the free upgrade from 
Windows 7 to Windows 10, but very glad I did it on all my machines. Even 
paid for a couple of used Windows 7 licenses so I could upgrade from XP 
to 7 and then take the free upgrade to 10. 

	
From: Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
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From: "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 15:28:53 +0100
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On 2017-10-30 08:17, Rich A wrote:
> Wow!  Didn't know it had so many issues!  Made a horrific mess of running multiple different
displays (even with specific video card drivers), hides tons of stuff that I normally use (like
control panel). Boxes the active desktop into a frame INSIDE the main computer screen, so it's
smaller.  I'm sure there is a way around it, but I couldn't be bothered. There are myriad issues
with it, which I found out looking up problems online.  Windows 8.1 is FAR better, IMO.

Maybe that's interesting, but how does your post relate to this group
about digital photography?

-- 
Cheers, Carlos. 

	
Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
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From: David Taylor <david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 15:58:39 +0000
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On 30/10/2017 14:28, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2017-10-30 08:17, Rich A wrote:
>> Wow!  Didn't know it had so many issues!  Made a horrific mess of running multiple different
displays (even with specific video card drivers), hides tons of stuff that I normally use (like
control panel). Boxes the active desktop into a frame INSIDE the main computer screen, so it's
smaller.  I'm sure there is a way around it, but I couldn't be bothered. There are myriad issues
with it, which I found out looking up problems online.  Windows 8.1 is FAR better, IMO.
> 
> Maybe that's interesting, but how does your post relate to this group
> about digital photography?

Good question, but the resulting discussion may be helpful to those who 
run all their digital photography software on Windows.  Contrary to Mr. 
Anderson, I've had no problems with Win-10, and that may be an 
encouragement to anyone considering upgrading their hardware, and 
perhaps concerned that it comes with Win-10.

-- 
Cheers,
David
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu 

	
From: Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
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From: Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 12:42:36 -0400
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On Mon, 30 Oct 2017 15:58:39 +0000, David Taylor<david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid> wrote:

>On 30/10/2017 14:28, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> On 2017-10-30 08:17, Rich A wrote:
>>> Wow!  Didn't know it had so many issues!  Made a horrific mess of running multiple different
displays (even with specific video card drivers), hides tons of stuff that I normally use (like
control panel). Boxes the active desktop into a frame INSIDE the main computer screen, so it's
smaller.  I'm sure there is a way around it, but I couldn't be bothered. There are myriad issues
with it, which I found out looking up problems online.  Windows 8.1 is FAR better, IMO.
>> 
>> Maybe that's interesting, but how does your post relate to this group
>> about digital photography?
>
>Good question, but the resulting discussion may be helpful to those who 
>run all their digital photography software on Windows.  Contrary to Mr. 
>Anderson, I've had no problems with Win-10, and that may be an 
>encouragement to anyone considering upgrading their hardware, and 
>perhaps concerned that it comes with Win-10.

I have no idea why Rich A finds Windows 10 more difficult to work with
than his previous version.  Anyone who can't adapt to a different
version of Windows in order to access the apps he uses is a candidate
for the short bus.

Any new version of any software requires a get acquainted approach
that most of us are able to successfully negotiate in a short period
of time.

I recently commented on the new Photoshop version not having the new
Curvature Pen Tool.  I was wrong; it's there, but it wasn't where I
was expecting it to be.  I think that Adobe should have located it
with the other pen tools from the get-go, but now that I know where it
is (and was able to move it), all is well.


-- 
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida 

	
From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
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From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 13:10:04 -0400
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In article<cokevc5nlma7l5c5k9pelubip95239vu3f@4ax.com>, Tony Cooper<tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:

> Any new version of any software requires a get acquainted approach
> that most of us are able to successfully negotiate in a short period
> of time.

for some new versions, that's true, but definitely not all of them. 

many times, the changes are minor or even entirely internal, resulting
in no need to 'get acquainted' whatsoever.

once again, you're wrong. 

	
From: Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
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Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 13:30:37 -0400
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On Mon, 30 Oct 2017 13:10:04 -0400, nospam<nospam@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

>In article<cokevc5nlma7l5c5k9pelubip95239vu3f@4ax.com>, Tony Cooper
><tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Any new version of any software requires a get acquainted approach
>> that most of us are able to successfully negotiate in a short period
>> of time.
>
>for some new versions, that's true, but definitely not all of them. 
>
>many times, the changes are minor or even entirely internal, resulting
>in no need to 'get acquainted' whatsoever.

Those are not "new versions".  I know you have a vocabulary
deficiency, but a "new version" is different from a new release that
makes changes "under the hood" in the same version.

A "minor" change does not mean a change that doesn't require an
adjustment on the part of the user to understand the change.  Changing
the name of a tool, but not the tool, would be a minor change.  The
user may need to get acquainted with the new term.

>once again, you're wrong.

You'd like to think so.
-- 
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida 

	
From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
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From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 13:59:35 -0400
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In article<3snevchek5qa3onub128upngigls540ibi@4ax.com>, Tony Cooper<tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:

> >> Any new version of any software requires a get acquainted approach
> >> that most of us are able to successfully negotiate in a short period
> >> of time.
> >
> >for some new versions, that's true, but definitely not all of them. 
> >
> >many times, the changes are minor or even entirely internal, resulting
> >in no need to 'get acquainted' whatsoever.
> 
> Those are not "new versions". 

nonsense.

> I know you have a vocabulary
> deficiency, 

ad hominem.

> but a "new version" is different from a new release that
> makes changes "under the hood" in the same version.

nope. 

a new version is one that is different from the existing version, which
is why it's called new. 

the changes can be anywhere from not noticeable (i.e., internal) to
minor to major or anywhere in between.

in almost every case, the version number changes to indicate that it
is, in fact, a new version, and how much of a change to expect.

a major change is usually a major version number (1->2) and a minor
change is a dot release (1.1->1.2). 

on rare occasion, changes are minor enough to not warrant a version
number change, but it's still a new version (easily shown with a hash).

once again, you're *way* out of your league. 

> A "minor" change does not mean a change that doesn't require an
> adjustment on the part of the user to understand the change.  Changing
> the name of a tool, but not the tool, would be a minor change.  The
> user may need to get acquainted with the new term.

if the tool differs only by name, then only stupid people would be
confused.

> >once again, you're wrong.
> 
> You'd like to think so.

i know so.

you were *very* wrong on dcc, and still have yet to admit it. 

	
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Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
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nospam wrote:

> In article<cokevc5nlma7l5c5k9pelubip95239vu3f@4ax.com>, Tony Cooper
><tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Any new version of any software requires a get acquainted approach
> > that most of us are able to successfully negotiate in a short period
> > of time.
> 
> for some new versions, that's true, but definitely not all of them. 
> 
> many times, the changes are minor or even entirely internal, resulting
> in no need to 'get acquainted' whatsoever.
> 
> once again, you're wrong.

Windows 10 is, indeed, a new version with some not so minor design
changes that the user needs to invest time in order to get aquainted
with them.

Most of the issues the anti-Windows 10 brigade have can be resolved if
they took a bit of time to learn how to use it and not take it on face
value and compare first impressions with "older versions".

MC 

	
From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
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From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 14:44:23 -0400
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In article<xn0kwue62a8maw002@news.virginmedia.com>, MC<any@any.any>
wrote:

> > > Any new version of any software requires a get acquainted approach
> > > that most of us are able to successfully negotiate in a short period
> > > of time.
> > 
> > for some new versions, that's true, but definitely not all of them. 
> > 
> > many times, the changes are minor or even entirely internal, resulting
> > in no need to 'get acquainted' whatsoever.
> > 
> > once again, you're wrong.
> 
> Windows 10 is, indeed, a new version with some not so minor design
> changes that the user needs to invest time in order to get aquainted
> with them.

absolutely, but not all new versions are that dramatic of a change.

many times, a new version is just bug fixes and/or compatibility with
new hardware, nothing anyone would even notice, other than the bugs no
longer exist, and only for those affected by said bugs. 

> Most of the issues the anti-Windows 10 brigade have can be resolved if
> they took a bit of time to learn how to use it and not take it on face
> value and compare first impressions with "older versions".

yep. people hate change. 

	
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From: 10-4.call@internet.org
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
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On Mon, 30 Oct 2017 15:58:39 +0000, David Taylor<david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid> wrote:

>Good question, but the resulting discussion may be helpful to those who 
>run all their digital photography software on Windows.  Contrary to Mr. 
>Anderson, I've had no problems with Win-10, and that may be an 
>encouragement to anyone considering upgrading their hardware, and 
>perhaps concerned that it comes with Win-10.

I run all that software on Windows 98se or Windows XP. It works just
fine. No one needs all the bloat in Windows 10. I would not touch Win10
if it was free. 

	
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From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
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In article<j49fvctb7ktfc4g567lrfjko0qs8tjkm1v@4ax.com>,<10-4.call@internet.org> wrote:

> >Good question, but the resulting discussion may be helpful to those who 
> >run all their digital photography software on Windows.  Contrary to Mr. 
> >Anderson, I've had no problems with Win-10, and that may be an 
> >encouragement to anyone considering upgrading their hardware, and 
> >perhaps concerned that it comes with Win-10.
> 
> I run all that software on Windows 98se or Windows XP. It works just
> fine. 

all what software? nothing recent runs in those, which weren't stable
nor secure anyway. 

you're clearly trolling.

> No one needs all the bloat in Windows 10. I would not touch Win10
> if it was free. 

it was for its first year, but only from win7/8. 

	
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From: David Taylor <david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2017 07:47:02 +0000
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On 30/10/2017 22:18, 10-4.call@internet.org wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Oct 2017 15:58:39 +0000, David Taylor
><david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> Good question, but the resulting discussion may be helpful to those who
>> run all their digital photography software on Windows.  Contrary to Mr.
>> Anderson, I've had no problems with Win-10, and that may be an
>> encouragement to anyone considering upgrading their hardware, and
>> perhaps concerned that it comes with Win-10.
> 
> I run all that software on Windows 98se or Windows XP. It works just
> fine. No one needs all the bloat in Windows 10. I would not touch Win10
> if it was free.

Good luck if those older systems are Internet connected!

But were you to upgrade, you wouldn't lose that software (unlike Apple's 
iOS upgrades orphaning 32-bit programs).

-- 
Cheers,
David
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu 

	
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From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
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Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
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In article <ot99pn$haj$1@dont-email.me>, David Taylor<david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid> wrote:

> >> Good question, but the resulting discussion may be helpful to those who
> >> run all their digital photography software on Windows.  Contrary to Mr.
> >> Anderson, I've had no problems with Win-10, and that may be an
> >> encouragement to anyone considering upgrading their hardware, and
> >> perhaps concerned that it comes with Win-10.
> >
> > I run all that software on Windows 98se or Windows XP. It works just
> > fine. No one needs all the bloat in Windows 10. I would not touch Win10
> > if it was free.
> 
> Good luck if those older systems are Internet connected!

yep, assuming the story is actually true. it most likely is not.

> But were you to upgrade, you wouldn't lose that software

complete nonsense. 

very little that ran in win98 will still run under windows 10. anything
that was 16 bit, you can forget entirely.

current versions of photoshop, lightroom, most other digital
photography apps and most apps in general require windows 7 at a
minimum, *maybe* win xp if the app is not particularly sophisticated.

for example, the last version of photoshop that ran in windows 98 is
photoshop 7, which will not run in windows 10 or windows 7 for that
matter.

in other words, whatever apps he's supposedly running will need to be
upgraded or replaced for win10. they will also do shitloads more.

> (unlike Apple's 
> iOS upgrades orphaning 32-bit programs).

apple didn't orphan anything. it's the developers of those apps who
have abandoned them.

for nearly all 32 bit ios apps, all a developer needs to do is
recompile it for 64 bit code and resubmit it to the app store. 

if a developer can't be bothered to do even that, then what do you
expect apple to do? 

	
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From: Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca>
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 18:34:16 -0400
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On 2017-10-30 10:28, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> but how does your post relate to this group
> about digital photography?

RichA rarely posts anything pertinent, relative to or useful about 
photography.  For reasons I can't fathom many people here oxygenate him 
in any case. 

	
From: Rich A <rander3127@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
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On Monday, October 30, 2017 at 6:34:23 PM UTC-4, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2017-10-30 10:28, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> > but how does your post relate to this group
> > about digital photography?
> 
> RichA rarely posts anything pertinent, relative to or useful about 
> photography.  For reasons I can't fathom many people here oxygenate him 
> in any case.

And you? 

	
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On 2017-10-31 03:53, Rich A wrote:
> On Monday, October 30, 2017 at 6:34:23 PM UTC-4, Alan Browne wrote:
>> On 2017-10-30 10:28, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>> but how does your post relate to this group about digital
>>> photography?
>> 
>> RichA rarely posts anything pertinent, relative to or useful about 
>> photography.  For reasons I can't fathom many people here oxygenate
>> him in any case.


I rarely post anything OP - and when I do, I so flag it.

I rarely post to this NG these days because it's more noise than 
photographic signal.  And you are about the worst offender in that sense. 

	
From: Rich A <rander3127@gmail.com>
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On Monday, October 30, 2017 at 10:32:14 AM UTC-4, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2017-10-30 08:17, Rich A wrote:
> > Wow!  Didn't know it had so many issues!  Made a horrific mess of running multiple different
displays (even with specific video card drivers), hides tons of stuff that I normally use (like
control panel). Boxes the active desktop into a frame INSIDE the main computer screen, so it's
smaller.  I'm sure there is a way around it, but I couldn't be bothered. There are myriad issues
with it, which I found out looking up problems online.  Windows 8..1 is FAR better, IMO.
> 
> Maybe that's interesting, but how does your post relate to this group
> about digital photography?
> 
> -- 
> Cheers, Carlos.

Display issues? 

	
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"Rich A"<rander3127@gmail.com> wrote

> Wow!  Didn't know it had so many issues!

 There's a newsgroup for your issues:

alt.comp.os.windows-10

  But you didn't mention the biggest problem:
It's a moving target. Win10 will be whatever
Microsoft want it to be. The current version
is in a transitional state, with a vaguely defined
plan to fully convert it from a software platform
to an ad and/or rental fee-supported service.
They claim the right to force whatever updates
they like. And they're doing it. Some are reversible
if you're handy and dedicated. But the writing's
on the wall.

  If you look at the posts in the Win10 group
you'll see an unusual number are OT or from "trolls".
The rest are mostly about problems related to
an update. If you scratch a little deeper you'll
find that many of the people there are only
tinkerers exploring the latest Windows version --
not using it to do work.

  If you have the Pro version, if I remember correctly,
there's a "downgrade" option allowing you to install
Win7 or 8. (Personally I'd suggest 7. Win8 is basically
the same thing, but with the memory hogging, irrelevant
Metro services UI stuck on top.) If it's not Pro then
you're stuck with wherever Microsoft decides you
want to go today. You can save up and buy a Mac,
switch to Linux and give up your software, or swallow
your pride and buy an older Windows disk. (But if
you do that, be sure you can get drivers for all the
hardware.) 

	
From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
Full headers:
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From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 11:37:30 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 50
Message-ID: <301020171137309421%nospam@nospam.invalid>
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In article <ot7f48$l3p$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Mayayana<mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:

> 
> > Wow!  Didn't know it had so many issues!
> 
>  There's a newsgroup for your issues:
> 
> alt.comp.os.windows-10

his issues run deeper than what that or any other newsgroup can provide.

>   But you didn't mention the biggest problem:
> It's a moving target. Win10 will be whatever
> Microsoft want it to be. 

*all* software is whatever its creators want it to be. hardware too for
that matter, along with architects, sculptors, and more.

> The current version
> is in a transitional state, with a vaguely defined
> plan to fully convert it from a software platform
> to an ad and/or rental fee-supported service.

nonsense.

> They claim the right to force whatever updates
> they like. And they're doing it. Some are reversible
> if you're handy and dedicated. But the writing's
> on the wall.

there's no reason to reverse them, but in the unlikely event someone
does want to do that, it's easy. 

security updates, bug fixes and new features are a good thing. 

>   If you look at the posts in the Win10 group
> you'll see an unusual number are OT or from "trolls".
> The rest are mostly about problems related to
> an update. If you scratch a little deeper you'll
> find that many of the people there are only
> tinkerers exploring the latest Windows version --
> not using it to do work.

people post about problems, hoping to find a solution. 

rarely, if ever, does someone post that everything is great.

win10 is currently running on hundreds of millions of systems. nothing
is perfect, so there will be a few problems, but they're mostly minor. 

	
Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
Full headers:
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From: PeterN <"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 12:52:08 -0400
Organization: NewsGuy - Unlimited Usenet $23.95
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <ot7lbq01gmh@news7.newsguy.com>
References: <8f933433-4590-4ce1-8633-43fef8eac186@googlegroups.com>
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On 10/30/2017 11:37 AM, nospam wrote:

<snip>

> 
> win10 is currently running on hundreds of millions of systems. nothing
> is perfect, so there will be a few problems, but they're mostly minor.
> 

I have Win 7 on one machine and Win10 on my laptop. I have found nothing 
about Win10 that would induce me to upgrade. What I do not like is the 
update notification that comes, usually when I am engrossed in a 
project. To me it is an annoying distraction. What some claim is minor, 
is not to others.


-- 
PeterN 

	
From: Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
Full headers:
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From: Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 13:09:19 -0400
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <p0nevc13a6qn3mpurml8a0e6pefadpfl63@4ax.com>
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On Mon, 30 Oct 2017 12:52:08 -0400, PeterN
<"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net> wrote:

>On 10/30/2017 11:37 AM, nospam wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>> 
>> win10 is currently running on hundreds of millions of systems. nothing
>> is perfect, so there will be a few problems, but they're mostly minor.
>> 
>
>I have Win 7 on one machine and Win10 on my laptop. I have found nothing 
>about Win10 that would induce me to upgrade. What I do not like is the 
>update notification that comes, usually when I am engrossed in a 
>project. To me it is an annoying distraction. What some claim is minor, 
>is not to others.

The only objection that I have is that I use Chrome on my Windows 10
laptop and get frequent pop-ups telling me that I should be using
Edge.  I find that an annoying intrusion.

-- 
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida 

	
From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
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From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 13:10:35 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <301020171310354552%nospam@nospam.invalid>
References: <8f933433-4590-4ce1-8633-43fef8eac186@googlegroups.com> <ot7f48$l3p$1@gioia.aioe.org> <301020171137309421%nospam@nospam.invalid> <ot7lbq01gmh@news7.newsguy.com> <p0nevc13a6qn3mpurml8a0e6pefadpfl63@4ax.com>
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In article<p0nevc13a6qn3mpurml8a0e6pefadpfl63@4ax.com>, Tony Cooper<tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:

> The only objection that I have is that I use Chrome on my Windows 10
> laptop and get frequent pop-ups telling me that I should be using
> Edge.  I find that an annoying intrusion.

user error. 

	
From: Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
Full headers:
Path: news.netfront.net!goblin2!goblin1!goblin.stu.neva.ru!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 13:34:17 -0400
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On Mon, 30 Oct 2017 13:10:35 -0400, nospam<nospam@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

>In article<p0nevc13a6qn3mpurml8a0e6pefadpfl63@4ax.com>, Tony Cooper
><tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The only objection that I have is that I use Chrome on my Windows 10
>> laptop and get frequent pop-ups telling me that I should be using
>> Edge.  I find that an annoying intrusion.
>
>user error.

I understand why you feel it's my error.  You, like Windows 10, feel
that anything different from what you recommend is an error.  
-- 
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida 

	
From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
Full headers:
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From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 13:59:36 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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In article<6goevcdp3onfd9cngtcbmm2iditiq3o9dc@4ax.com>, Tony Cooper<tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:

> >> The only objection that I have is that I use Chrome on my Windows 10
> >> laptop and get frequent pop-ups telling me that I should be using
> >> Edge.  I find that an annoying intrusion.
> >
> >user error.
> 
> I understand why you feel it's my error. You, like Windows 10, feel
> that anything different from what you recommend is an error.

as usual, you understand absolutely nothing, especially since i have
not recommended anything.

i don't give a flying fuck what browser you use. nowhere did i say you
had to use any particular browser or operating system.

once again, you are *wrong*.

it's very simple: computers don't read minds. you have yours set up for
those types of popups to be shown, so it shows them to you, exactly
what you told it to do.

if you don't want them, then disable them. 

the choice is *yours*. it's entirely up to *you* whether you see them
or not.

you say you are annoyed by them, but yet you have done nothing to stop
them from appearing. you *assumed* it was part of win10 and that you
had to put up with it. you didn't even ask if there was anything that
could be done.

in other words, user error. 

	
From: MC <any@any.any>
Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
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From: "MC" <any@any.any>
Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
References: <8f933433-4590-4ce1-8633-43fef8eac186@googlegroups.com> <ot7f48$l3p$1@gioia.aioe.org> <301020171137309421%nospam@nospam.invalid> <ot7lbq01gmh@news7.newsguy.com> <p0nevc13a6qn3mpurml8a0e6pefadpfl63@4ax.com> <301020171310354552%nospam@nospam.invalid> <6goevcdp3onfd9cngtcbmm2iditiq3o9dc@4ax.com>
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Tony Cooper wrote:

> On Mon, 30 Oct 2017 13:10:35 -0400, nospam<nospam@nospam.invalid>
> wrote:
> 
> > In article<p0nevc13a6qn3mpurml8a0e6pefadpfl63@4ax.com>, Tony Cooper
> ><tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> >> The only objection that I have is that I use Chrome on my Windows
> 10 >> laptop and get frequent pop-ups telling me that I should be
> using >> Edge.  I find that an annoying intrusion.
> > 
> > user error.
> 
> I understand why you feel it's my error.  You, like Windows 10, feel
> that anything different from what you recommend is an error.  

To be honest he is right, although he should have offered a solution if
he wanted to point out the "error".

Nags can be turned off in: Settings-System-Notifications and
Actions-Toggle off "Get tips, tricks, and suggestions as you use
windows".

MC 

	
From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
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From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 14:24:26 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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In article<xn0kwudm69fs4c000@news.virginmedia.com>, MC<any@any.any>
wrote:

> > > In article<p0nevc13a6qn3mpurml8a0e6pefadpfl63@4ax.com>, Tony Cooper
> > ><tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> The only objection that I have is that I use Chrome on my Windows
> > 10 >> laptop and get frequent pop-ups telling me that I should be
> > using >> Edge.  I find that an annoying intrusion.
> > > 
> > > user error.
> > 
> > I understand why you feel it's my error.  You, like Windows 10, feel
> > that anything different from what you recommend is an error.  
> 
> To be honest he is right, although he should have offered a solution if
> he wanted to point out the "error".

i have very little motivation to help tony. as in none.

> Nags can be turned off in: Settings-System-Notifications and
> Actions-Toggle off "Get tips, tricks, and suggestions as you use
> windows".

yep. 

	
From: Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
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From: Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
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On Mon, 30 Oct 2017 14:24:26 -0400, nospam<nospam@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

>In article<xn0kwudm69fs4c000@news.virginmedia.com>, MC<any@any.any>
>wrote:
>
>> > > In article<p0nevc13a6qn3mpurml8a0e6pefadpfl63@4ax.com>, Tony Cooper
>> > ><tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >> The only objection that I have is that I use Chrome on my Windows
>> > 10 >> laptop and get frequent pop-ups telling me that I should be
>> > using >> Edge.  I find that an annoying intrusion.
>> > > 
>> > > user error.
>> > 
>> > I understand why you feel it's my error.  You, like Windows 10, feel
>> > that anything different from what you recommend is an error.  
>> 
>> To be honest he is right, although he should have offered a solution if
>> he wanted to point out the "error".
>
>i have very little motivation to help tony. as in none.

I can think of no more than three occasions when you actually tried to
be helpful to anyone.
>
>> Nags can be turned off in: Settings-System-Notifications and
>> Actions-Toggle off "Get tips, tricks, and suggestions as you use
>> windows".
>
>yep.
-- 

Regards,

Eric Stevens 

	
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Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
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From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
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In article<u5ufvclvvqamtm0o3bv9jrhit9iikfh36d@4ax.com>, Eric Stevens<eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote:

> >> > >> The only objection that I have is that I use Chrome on my Windows
> >> > 10 >> laptop and get frequent pop-ups telling me that I should be
> >> > using >> Edge.  I find that an annoying intrusion.
> >> > > 
> >> > > user error.
> >> > 
> >> > I understand why you feel it's my error.  You, like Windows 10, feel
> >> > that anything different from what you recommend is an error.  
> >> 
> >> To be honest he is right, although he should have offered a solution if
> >> he wanted to point out the "error".
> >
> >i have very little motivation to help tony. as in none.
> 
> I can think of no more than three occasions when you actually tried to
> be helpful to anyone.

keep thinking and you'll come up with many more.

and despite your number being very wrong, it completely disproves
tony's bullshit claim i don't help anyone.

had he simply asked 'how do i make it not do that?' rather than go into
attack mode, i'd have answered. he chose to attack, which is a very bad
idea to obtain help. 

	
From: Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
Full headers:
Path: news.netfront.net!goblin2!goblin.stu.neva.ru!weretis.net!feeder4.news.weretis.net!news.szaf.org!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 15:50:26 -0400
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On Mon, 30 Oct 2017 18:03:28 GMT, "MC"<any@any.any> wrote:

>Tony Cooper wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 30 Oct 2017 13:10:35 -0400, nospam<nospam@nospam.invalid>
>> wrote:
>> 
>> > In article<p0nevc13a6qn3mpurml8a0e6pefadpfl63@4ax.com>, Tony Cooper
>> ><tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > 
>> >> The only objection that I have is that I use Chrome on my Windows
>> 10 >> laptop and get frequent pop-ups telling me that I should be
>> using >> Edge.  I find that an annoying intrusion.
>> > 
>> > user error.
>> 
>> I understand why you feel it's my error.  You, like Windows 10, feel
>> that anything different from what you recommend is an error.  
>
>To be honest he is right, although he should have offered a solution if
>he wanted to point out the "error".

He never does.  Just appears to argue.

>
>Nags can be turned off in: Settings-System-Notifications and
>Actions-Toggle off "Get tips, tricks, and suggestions as you use
>windows".

It's annoying to have to go through that to change something that
never should have been included in the first place.

-- 
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida 

	
From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
Full headers:
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From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 16:05:22 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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In article<vh0fvc9rh9imemnmvn6vfcfvbgj01gqc3f@4ax.com>, Tony Cooper<tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:

> >> >> The only objection that I have is that I use Chrome on my Windows
> >> 10 >> laptop and get frequent pop-ups telling me that I should be
> >> using >> Edge.  I find that an annoying intrusion.
> >> > 
> >> > user error.
> >> 
> >> I understand why you feel it's my error.  You, like Windows 10, feel
> >> that anything different from what you recommend is an error.  
> >
> >To be honest he is right, although he should have offered a solution if
> >he wanted to point out the "error".
> 
> He never does.  Just appears to argue.

once again, you're lying.

not only do i offer help, but it's *you* who appears just to argue,
which you've admitted is your goal, and on more than one occasion.

> >Nags can be turned off in: Settings-System-Notifications and
> >Actions-Toggle off "Get tips, tricks, and suggestions as you use
> >windows".
> 
> It's annoying to have to go through that to change something that
> never should have been included in the first place.

if it hadn't, then many people would not know about edge.

there's absolutely nothing wrong with microsoft advertising new
features, especially with a way to turn off the notifications for those
who prefer not to see them. 

the user is always in control.

consider it as part of the 'getting acquainted' aspect you said must
occur. 

	
From: Mayayana <mayayana@invalid.nospam>
Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
Full headers:
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From: "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 16:10:15 -0400
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
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"Tony Cooper"<tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote

| It's annoying to have to go through that to change something that
| never should have been included in the first place.

  Of course, but you're starting a discussion with
an obvious Microsoft shill. Read his posts. He only
piped up to say Win10 is great and anyone who
says otherwise is wrong. 

	
From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
Full headers:
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From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 16:45:12 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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In article <ot810v$1msq$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Mayayana<mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:

> | It's annoying to have to go through that to change something that
> | never should have been included in the first place.
> 
>   Of course, but you're starting a discussion with
> an obvious Microsoft shill. Read his posts. He only
> piped up to say Win10 is great and anyone who
> says otherwise is wrong. 

who are you calling a microsoft shill? 

	
From: Russell D. <russell@none.nope>
Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
Full headers:
Path: news.netfront.net!goblin3!goblin1!goblin.stu.neva.ru!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: "Russell D." <russell@none.nope>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2017 13:29:12 -0600
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <otd7a8$459$1@dont-email.me>
References: <8f933433-4590-4ce1-8633-43fef8eac186@googlegroups.com>
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On 10/30/2017 11:10 AM, nospam wrote:
> In article<p0nevc13a6qn3mpurml8a0e6pefadpfl63@4ax.com>, Tony Cooper
><tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> The only objection that I have is that I use Chrome on my Windows 10
>> laptop and get frequent pop-ups telling me that I should be using
>> Edge.  I find that an annoying intrusion.
> 
> user error.
> 

While I somewhat agree, explain why or you are just a troll. 

	
From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
Full headers:
Path: news.netfront.net!goblin3!goblin1!goblin.stu.neva.ru!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2017 15:44:06 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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In article <otd7a8$459$1@dont-email.me>, Russell D.<russell@none.nope>
wrote:

> >> The only objection that I have is that I use Chrome on my Windows 10
> >> laptop and get frequent pop-ups telling me that I should be using
> >> Edge.  I find that an annoying intrusion.
> > 
> > user error.
> 
> While I somewhat agree, explain why or you are just a troll.

if you agree, then there's no need to explain anything, which has been
done already anyway. 

nevertheless, it's very simple: his system is configured to show those
popups, so it does. computers do what they're told.

if he finds the popups to be annoying, then he needs to configure it to
not show them. 

the choice is entirely up to him. nobody else. 

	
From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
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From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 13:10:04 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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In article<ot7lbq01gmh@news7.newsguy.com>, PeterN
<"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net> wrote:

> > 
> > win10 is currently running on hundreds of millions of systems. nothing
> > is perfect, so there will be a few problems, but they're mostly minor.
> 
> I have Win 7 on one machine and Win10 on my laptop. I have found nothing 
> about Win10 that would induce me to upgrade.

win10's user interface is cleaner and better designed and has
significant internal changes, as compared with win7.

unfortunately, win10's design language is incredibly bland, something
an 8 year old could have come up with. perhaps there's a shortage of
good designers in redmond and that's what really happened.

> What I do not like is the 
> update notification that comes, usually when I am engrossed in a 
> project. To me it is an annoying distraction. What some claim is minor, 
> is not to others.

that part is indeed annoying. 

what i do is check for updates before i start doing anything so that it
doesn't interrupt, and accept the fact that one tuesday a month will be
a pain in the ass, especially when a major update is pushed. 

	
From: MC <any@any.any>
Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
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From: "MC" <any@any.any>
Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
References: <8f933433-4590-4ce1-8633-43fef8eac186@googlegroups.com> <ot7f48$l3p$1@gioia.aioe.org> <301020171137309421%nospam@nospam.invalid> <ot7lbq01gmh@news7.newsguy.com> <301020171310042698%nospam@nospam.invalid>
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nospam wrote:

> In article<ot7lbq01gmh@news7.newsguy.com>, PeterN
> <"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net> wrote:
> 
> > > 
> > > win10 is currently running on hundreds of millions of systems.
> > > nothing is perfect, so there will be a few problems, but they're
> > > mostly minor.
> > 
> > I have Win 7 on one machine and Win10 on my laptop. I have found
> > nothing about Win10 that would induce me to upgrade.
> 
> win10's user interface is cleaner and better designed and has
> significant internal changes, as compared with win7.
> 
> unfortunately, win10's design language is incredibly bland, something
> an 8 year old could have come up with. perhaps there's a shortage of
> good designers in redmond and that's what really happened.
> 
> > What I do not like is the 
> > update notification that comes, usually when I am engrossed in a 
> > project. To me it is an annoying distraction. What some claim is
> > minor, is not to others.
> 
> that part is indeed annoying. 
> 
> what i do is check for updates before i start doing anything so that
> it doesn't interrupt, and accept the fact that one tuesday a month
> will be a pain in the ass, especially when a major update is pushed.

Settings-Update & Security-Windows Update then select "Restart options"
and toggle off "Show more notifications".

Settings-Update & Security-Windows Update the select "Change active
hours" and choose a time window when you do not want an automatic
restart.

MC 

	
From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
Full headers:
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From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 14:24:25 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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In article<xn0kwudwy9vept001@news.virginmedia.com>, MC<any@any.any>
wrote:

> > > What I do not like is the 
> > > update notification that comes, usually when I am engrossed in a 
> > > project. To me it is an annoying distraction. What some claim is
> > > minor, is not to others.
> > 
> > that part is indeed annoying. 
> > 
> > what i do is check for updates before i start doing anything so that
> > it doesn't interrupt, and accept the fact that one tuesday a month
> > will be a pain in the ass, especially when a major update is pushed.
> 
> Settings-Update & Security-Windows Update then select "Restart options"
> and toggle off "Show more notifications".
> 
> Settings-Update & Security-Windows Update the select "Change active
> hours" and choose a time window when you do not want an automatic
> restart.

my active hours are not a fixed schedule (and sometimes it runs
unattended overnight), so no matter what hours i set, there may be a
conflict. 

	
From: Alfred Molon <alfred_molon@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
Full headers:
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From: Alfred Molon <alfred_molon@yahoo.com>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 20:25:32 +0100
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In article <ot7f48$l3p$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Mayayana says...
> Win8 is basically
> the same thing, but with the memory hogging, irrelevant
> Metro services UI stuck on top.

What on earth is that?
-- 
Alfred Molon

Olympus E-series DSLRs and micro 4/3 forum at
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site 

	
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From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
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Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 15:29:14 -0400
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In article<MPG.34619b19cf31329b98cef1@news.supernews.com>, Alfred
Molon<alfred_molon@yahoo.com> wrote:

> In article <ot7f48$l3p$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Mayayana says...
> > Win8 is basically
> > the same thing, but with the memory hogging, irrelevant
> > Metro services UI stuck on top.
> 
> What on earth is that?

it's false information. 

	
From: Mayayana <mayayana@invalid.nospam>
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From: "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam>
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Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
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"Alfred Molon"<alfred_molon@yahoo.com> wrote

| > Win8 is basically
| > the same thing, but with the memory hogging, irrelevant
| > Metro services UI stuck on top.
|
| What on earth is that?

   A bit hard to explain if you haven't seen it.
Up to Win7 there's the basic desktop that Windows
boots to. The Windows system itself is a software
platform, running Win32 software that uses system
library functions. Just like Win3/95/98/2000/XP/etc.
    Starting with Win8, Microsoft created
a sandboxed app UI that boots on top of the
desktop. It's an add-on subsystem. The desktop
can still be accessed, but the monotoned app UI
with giant buttons comes in on top. It was known
as Metro.

https://www.pcworld.com/article/251340/windows_8_metro_ui_a_bold_new...

   Metro was later renamed to "modern UI" and
apps renamed to "modern apps", "universal apps",
etc. Microsoft keep changing names as part of
marketing and, like drug companies or mercenary
contractors, whenever one name gets tainted by
disrepute.

   The basic idea was that Microsoft was trying
to blend Windows, tablets and phones. All would
have the same UI. All would sync. They were hoping
the vast coverage of the Windows base would help
them sell their online services and phones. People
would get familiar with Metro, then buy Windows
phones and use Windows phone apps.
  There were several problems:

  * Metro apps made no sense on a desktop or laptop.

  * Few Metro apps were written, due to lack of market.
     Microsoft even wrote some of them for companies,
     but the whole business just didn't work out.

  * Windows phones never took off. Recently MS have
even pretty much admitted that they're dropping phones.
(For the second or third time.) Bill Gates and other top
MS people even acknowledged they're personally using
Android phones.

  * Windows Surface has had some success as an expensive
laptop, but in general people don't use Windows tablets.

  So Metro is a "device ecosystem" with no devices
and no apps. MS were stuck with a ridiculously out-of-
place Metro UI on Win8 and no purpose for it.

  On Win10, Metro is more in the background. Microsoft
still hope to convert the entire Windows customer base
to online services -- by hook, crook, or strangulation
if necessary. All of Win10 is gradually being converted
to a sort of kiosk/phone app system. Win32 (compiled)
software that actually runs on the Win32 platform is
being "deprecated" in favor of service apps that are
essentially script-driven webpages. There are actually
already versions of Windows that won't allow installing
your own Windows software. (Compiled Win32 software.)
Only windows store apps, mainly trinket, non-compiled
services apps, and limited software from partners, are
allowed.

   The whole thing is about trying to cash in on web-
based services, datamining and ads. They think that's
the future. In the meantime Win10 is a sort of 2-headed
monster. Corporate customers have some control over
it, but they're still avoiding it because it's not designed
to be a work system. Non-corporate customers are
stuck with a transforming services device and a license
that says Microsoft can and will change the product
at will, installing or even removing software as they see
fit; gradually adding ads; selling personal information
from "telemetry". (Read spyware.)

  It seems like a lot of random design ideas on the surface,
but if you think of it in terms of the move toward ad-supported
services it makes more sense.

  Concurrent with that is a move toward "silos", which
has gone almost unnoticed. Silo is a term that Tim
Berners-Lee coined to refer to closed systems online, like
AOL. What's developing is multi-pronged "super silos".
Companies like MS, Apple, Google and Amazon are
trying to come up with ways to get people into their
systems and then keep them there, with special
IDs used to buy services. Microsoft with Windows,
X-Box and their now-failed phones, as well as
Office/Office365, free webmail, etc., hope to use
Win10 as a big part of that approach. You're not
invited into MicrosoftWorld as a Windows user.
Windows becomes MicrosoftWorld.

  Remember when Bill Gates famously said they'd
beat Netscape by "cutting off their air supply"?
That meant installing Internet Explorer into the
system and blocking Netscape at every opportunity.
This is the same idea. If people have to use Windows
for their work, and MS can gradually swap out
their Windows car for a Windows Services Taxi,
then they can leverage the entire customer base
to catch up in the ad/services market.

  Apropos of that, I saw the show "Shark Tank"
last night. A couple of men were trying to sell
their electric car service to the investors. They
let people pick up a car through an app and drive
it for free. Money is made by plastering the cars
with ads... Where will it stop? If no one ever has
to pay for anything, then what function will all the
ads serve? 

	
From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
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From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
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Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 16:45:11 -0400
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In article <ot80s5$1mjr$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Mayayana<mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:

> 
>   * Windows phones never took off. Recently MS have
> even pretty much admitted that they're dropping phones.
> (For the second or third time.) Bill Gates and other top
> MS people even acknowledged they're personally using
> Android phones.

bill gates is not among 'other top ms people' given that he's longer at
microsoft.

satya nadella is at the top and he uses an iphone, along with steven
sinofsky, who although isn't at microsoft now, was in charge of windows
when he was.

<http://www.techradar.com/news/phone-and-communications/mobile-phone...
re-s-what-microsoft-s-ceo-has-on-his-iphone-home-screen-1308595>
  Microsoft's Satya Nadella has just given us a look at what he has 
  on the home screen of his iPhone - yes, he owns one of Apple's
  handsets - although he insists that this 'iPhone Pro' is not his
  everyday phone.

<http://cdn.iphonehacks.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/steven-sinofs...
phone.png>

steven sinofsky recently tweeted this:
<https://twitter.com/stevesi/status/871803287325913088?lang=en>
  Apple iPad Pro with iOS 11 is the future of the productivity laptop.




>   Remember when Bill Gates famously said they'd
> beat Netscape by "cutting off their air supply"?
> That meant installing Internet Explorer into the
> system and blocking Netscape at every opportunity.

which is illegal and one of many things that bit them in the ass.

> This is the same idea. If people have to use Windows
> for their work, and MS can gradually swap out
> their Windows car for a Windows Services Taxi,
> then they can leverage the entire customer base
> to catch up in the ad/services market.

nonsense.

the computing landscape is very different now. microsoft doesn't have a
monopoly anymore. they're actually a minority player, amusingly enough,
something which *really* pisses off the microsoft fanbois. 

	
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On 2017-10-30 16:45, nospam wrote:

> bill gates is not among 'other top ms people' given that he's longer
> at microsoft.

He is still a board member and key technology advisor.  He owns 2.3% of 
the shares - doesn't sound like a lot - only Ballmer owns more.  So 
Gates has a lot of say in the appointments of fellow board members, and 
of course senior management. 

	
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From: Alfred Molon <alfred_molon@yahoo.com>
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Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
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In article <ot80s5$1mjr$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Mayayana says...
>   Remember when Bill Gates famously said they'd
> beat Netscape by "cutting off their air supply"?
> That meant installing Internet Explorer into the
> system and blocking Netscape at every opportunity.

It's about the same thing which Google is doing on Android phones and 
devices - Google being the default search engine, other search engines 
being cut off. 

Yandex in Russia recognised that, sued and won. Now in Russia buyers of 
smartphones and tablets have the choice of which search engine they want 
to use and the market share of Yandex is climbing back.
-- 
Alfred Molon

Olympus E-series DSLRs and micro 4/3 forum at
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site 

	
From: Mayayana <mayayana@invalid.nospam>
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Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
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"Alfred Molon"<alfred_molon@yahoo.com> wrote

| > That meant installing Internet Explorer into the
| > system and blocking Netscape at every opportunity.
|
| It's about the same thing which Google is doing on Android phones and
| devices - Google being the default search engine, other search engines
| being cut off.
|
   Not only Android. Everything Apple, too. And
until recently Google was close to being the sole
income source for Mozilla. I think it was $1 per
download to get a Google search box and auto-search
enabled for the address bar. For years Mozilla were
making about $300 million per year, almost entirely
from Google. They went from a lean company making
a peoples' browser to a bloated behemoth beholden
to an advertising company.

    So many people use auto-search now that I
find many don't understand the idea of "going to
a search engine". They think search is somehow
built into the Internet. As a result they're reporting
every action to Google. (In Firefox I think it's
currently Yahoo that pays for that data.) A friend
visiting last week complained that one of our computers
was acting funny. "It will only go to Wikipedia".
I realized she was searching through the address
bar and didn't know how to go to duckduckgo or
another search engine, even though there were
links in the custom home page.

| Yandex in Russia recognised that, sued and won. Now in Russia buyers of
| smartphones and tablets have the choice of which search engine they want
| to use and the market share of Yandex is climbing back.

  I didn't know that. Perhaps that's why Trump
is so friendly with the Russians. He probably
likes that they respect personal rights over
corporate profits. :) 

	
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Rich A wrote:

> Wow!  Didn't know it had so many issues!  Made a horrific mess of
> running multiple different displays (even with specific video card
> drivers), hides tons of stuff that I normally use (like control
> panel). Boxes the active desktop into a frame INSIDE the main
> computer screen, so it's smaller.  I'm sure there is a way around it,
> but I couldn't be bothered. There are myriad issues with it, which I
> found out looking up problems online.  Windows 8.1 is FAR better, IMO.

A bad workman always blames his tools.

MC 

	
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Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
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On 30/10/2017 6:17 @wiz, Rich A wrote:
> Wow!  Didn't know it had so many issues!  Made a horrific mess of running multiple different
displays (even with specific video card drivers), hides tons of stuff that I normally use (like
control panel). Boxes the active desktop into a frame INSIDE the main computer screen, so it's
smaller.  I'm sure there is a way around it, but I couldn't be bothered. There are myriad issues
with it, which I found out looking up problems online.  Windows 8.1 is FAR better, IMO.
> 


Gave up on it as soon as work upgraded mall desktops to it.
Mine at home are on Win7Pro 64-bit and will stay on that for the 
foreseeable future. And if Microslop makes it unworkable, I'll simply go 
back to Linux and screw them! 

	
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On 10/30/2017 02:17 AM, Rich A wrote:
> Wow!  Didn't know it had so many issues!  Made a horrific mess of running multiple different
displays (even with specific video card drivers), hides tons of stuff that I normally use (like
control panel). Boxes the active desktop into a frame INSIDE the main computer screen, so it's
smaller.  I'm sure there is a way around it, but I couldn't be bothered. There are myriad issues
with it, which I found out looking up problems online.  Windows 8.1 is FAR better, IMO.
> 



I have two , secondary use machines that I've upgrade to Win10, both 
work fine.


My wife is the one who does the real, photo-processing work and I'm 
keeping it at Win7. It works perfectly and I do not want to take a 
chance with that machine. 

	
Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
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From: PeterN <"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Windows 10. Horrible!
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2017 12:56:58 -0400
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On 10/31/2017 12:06 PM, philo wrote:
> On 10/30/2017 02:17 AM, Rich A wrote:
>> Wow!  Didn't know it had so many issues!  Made a horrific mess of 
>> running multiple different displays (even with specific video card 
>> drivers), hides tons of stuff that I normally use (like control 
>> panel). Boxes the active desktop into a frame INSIDE the main computer 
>> screen, so it's smaller.  I'm sure there is a way around it, but I 
>> couldn't be bothered. There are myriad issues with it, which I found 
>> out looking up problems online.  Windows 8.1 is FAR better, IMO.
>>
> 
> 
> 
> I have two , secondary use machines that I've upgrade to Win10, both 
> work fine.
> 
> 
> My wife is the one who does the real, photo-processing work and I'm 
> keeping it at Win7. It works perfectly and I do not want to take a 
> chance with that machine.
> 
My Win 10 machine works fine with Photoshop CC, Corel Painter 17, and a 
slew of PS plugins. My younger daughter, who is a heavy graphics user, 
(creative director,) uses Win 10. It works fine with the entire CC 
suite. She had her choice of machines and decided on Win 10. In the 
interest of fairness, may main machine is Win 7.


-- 
PeterN