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From: rwalker <rwalker@despammed.com>
Subject: Stuck Filters
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From: rwalker <rwalker@despammed.com>
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Subject: Stuck Filters
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Haven't checked in here in a long time.  Greetings to all the
regulars.  I've got a Vivitar cicular polarizer (77 mm) stuck to a
Firecrest IRND 18 sunfilter (77 mm).  They seem to have become welded
together.  Any advise on how to get them apart.  Tried putting on some
heavy duty latex surgical gloves and seeing if that would give me a
better grip, but no use.  Any suggestions?. 

	
From: Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com>
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
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On Nov 4, 2017, rwalker wrote
(in article<ccjsvcleg5vcdf3l0825fpkh6r9r0km3al@4ax.com>):

> Haven't checked in here in a long time. Greetings to all the
> regulars. I've got a Vivitar cicular polarizer (77 mm) stuck to a
> Firecrest IRND 18 sunfilter (77 mm). They seem to have become welded
> together. Any advise on how to get them apart. Tried putting on some
> heavy duty latex surgical gloves and seeing if that would give me a
> better grip, but no use. Any suggestions?.

It sounds as if you are in need of a filter wrench of the appropriate size. 
Available at B&H, or Amazon.

<https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/Other-Filter-
Accessories/ci/122/N/4026728365>

-- 

Regards,
Savageduck 

	
From: rwalker <rwalker@despammed.com>
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
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From: rwalker <rwalker@despammed.com>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
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On Sat, 04 Nov 2017 17:27:15 -0700, Savageduck
<savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

>On Nov 4, 2017, rwalker wrote
>(in article<ccjsvcleg5vcdf3l0825fpkh6r9r0km3al@4ax.com>):
>
>> Haven't checked in here in a long time. Greetings to all the
>> regulars. I've got a Vivitar cicular polarizer (77 mm) stuck to a
>> Firecrest IRND 18 sunfilter (77 mm). They seem to have become welded
>> together. Any advise on how to get them apart? Tried putting on some
>> heavy duty latex surgical gloves and seeing if that would give me a
>> better grip, but no use. Any suggestions?.
>
>It sounds as if you are in need of a filter wrench of the appropriate size. 
>Available at B&H, or Amazon.
>
><https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/Other-Filter-
>Accessories/ci/122/N/4026728365>


I think I'm going to invest in one.  Finally got them unstuck.  After
I had them inside for a couple of hours warming they loosened up.
Arthritis in my fingers, particularly my thumbs, makes these things
much harder than they used to be. 

	
From: Ken Hart <kwhart1@frontier.com>
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
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From: Ken Hart <kwhart1@frontier.com>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2017 20:46:42 -0400
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On 11/04/2017 08:33 PM, rwalker wrote:
> On Sat, 04 Nov 2017 17:27:15 -0700, Savageduck
> <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Nov 4, 2017, rwalker wrote
>> (in article<ccjsvcleg5vcdf3l0825fpkh6r9r0km3al@4ax.com>):
>>
>>> Haven't checked in here in a long time. Greetings to all the
>>> regulars. I've got a Vivitar cicular polarizer (77 mm) stuck to a
>>> Firecrest IRND 18 sunfilter (77 mm). They seem to have become welded
>>> together. Any advise on how to get them apart? Tried putting on some
>>> heavy duty latex surgical gloves and seeing if that would give me a
>>> better grip, but no use. Any suggestions?.
>>
>> It sounds as if you are in need of a filter wrench of the appropriate size.
>> Available at B&H, or Amazon.
>>
>> <https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/Other-Filter-
>> Accessories/ci/122/N/4026728365>
> 
> 
> I think I'm going to invest in one.  Finally got them unstuck.  After
> I had them inside for a couple of hours warming they loosened up.
> Arthritis in my fingers, particularly my thumbs, makes these things
> much harder than they used to be.
> 

I once used a plumber's pipe wrench on a filter stuck on a lens. I 
mounted the lens in the workshop bench vise.
Fortunately it was a filter I didn't care about. And while I cared about 
the lens, it was a common one and not too expensive.

-- 
Ken Hart
kwhart1@frontier.com 

	
From: rwalker <rwalker@despammed.com>
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
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From: rwalker <rwalker@despammed.com>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
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On Sat, 4 Nov 2017 20:46:42 -0400, Ken Hart<kwhart1@frontier.com>
wrote:

>On 11/04/2017 08:33 PM, rwalker wrote:
>> On Sat, 04 Nov 2017 17:27:15 -0700, Savageduck
>> <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> On Nov 4, 2017, rwalker wrote
>>> (in article<ccjsvcleg5vcdf3l0825fpkh6r9r0km3al@4ax.com>):
>>>
>>>> Haven't checked in here in a long time. Greetings to all the
>>>> regulars. I've got a Vivitar cicular polarizer (77 mm) stuck to a
>>>> Firecrest IRND 18 sunfilter (77 mm). They seem to have become welded
>>>> together. Any advise on how to get them apart? Tried putting on some
>>>> heavy duty latex surgical gloves and seeing if that would give me a
>>>> better grip, but no use. Any suggestions?.
>>>
>>> It sounds as if you are in need of a filter wrench of the appropriate size.
>>> Available at B&H, or Amazon.
>>>
>>> <https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/Other-Filter-
>>> Accessories/ci/122/N/4026728365>
>> 
>> 
>> I think I'm going to invest in one.  Finally got them unstuck.  After
>> I had them inside for a couple of hours warming they loosened up.
>> Arthritis in my fingers, particularly my thumbs, makes these things
>> much harder than they used to be.
>> 
>
>I once used a plumber's pipe wrench on a filter stuck on a lens. I 
>mounted the lens in the workshop bench vise.
>Fortunately it was a filter I didn't care about. And while I cared about 
>the lens, it was a common one and not too expensive.

Interesting approach! 

	
From: android <here@there.was>
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
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From: android <here@there.was>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
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In article<llosvc522kjjna9i51nblj7lrhu1bteuab@4ax.com>,
 rwalker<rwalker@despammed.com> wrote:

> On Sat, 4 Nov 2017 20:46:42 -0400, Ken Hart<kwhart1@frontier.com>
> wrote:
> 
> >On 11/04/2017 08:33 PM, rwalker wrote:
> >> On Sat, 04 Nov 2017 17:27:15 -0700, Savageduck
> >> <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
> >> 
> >>> On Nov 4, 2017, rwalker wrote
> >>> (in article<ccjsvcleg5vcdf3l0825fpkh6r9r0km3al@4ax.com>):
> >>>
> >>>> Haven't checked in here in a long time. Greetings to all the
> >>>> regulars. I've got a Vivitar cicular polarizer (77 mm) stuck to a
> >>>> Firecrest IRND 18 sunfilter (77 mm). They seem to have become welded
> >>>> together. Any advise on how to get them apart? Tried putting on some
> >>>> heavy duty latex surgical gloves and seeing if that would give me a
> >>>> better grip, but no use. Any suggestions?.
> >>>
> >>> It sounds as if you are in need of a filter wrench of the appropriate 
> >>> size.
> >>> Available at B&H, or Amazon.
> >>>
> >>> <https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/Other-Filter-
> >>> Accessories/ci/122/N/4026728365>
> >> 
> >> 
> >> I think I'm going to invest in one.  Finally got them unstuck.  After
> >> I had them inside for a couple of hours warming they loosened up.
> >> Arthritis in my fingers, particularly my thumbs, makes these things
> >> much harder than they used to be.
> >> 
> >
> >I once used a plumber's pipe wrench on a filter stuck on a lens. I 
> >mounted the lens in the workshop bench vise.
> >Fortunately it was a filter I didn't care about. And while I cared about 
> >the lens, it was a common one and not too expensive.
> 
> Interesting approach!

the real thing is less than usd 2:

<https://www.ebay.com/sch/Filters/15216/i.html?_from=R40&_sop=15&...
ter+wrench&rt=nc&LH_BIN=1>
-- 
teleportation kills 

	
From: Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
Full headers:
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From: Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
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On Sun, 05 Nov 2017 06:43:45 +0100, android<here@there.was> wrote:

>In article<llosvc522kjjna9i51nblj7lrhu1bteuab@4ax.com>,
> rwalker<rwalker@despammed.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 4 Nov 2017 20:46:42 -0400, Ken Hart<kwhart1@frontier.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>> >On 11/04/2017 08:33 PM, rwalker wrote:
>> >> On Sat, 04 Nov 2017 17:27:15 -0700, Savageduck
>> >> <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
>> >> 
>> >>> On Nov 4, 2017, rwalker wrote
>> >>> (in article<ccjsvcleg5vcdf3l0825fpkh6r9r0km3al@4ax.com>):
>> >>>
>> >>>> Haven't checked in here in a long time. Greetings to all the
>> >>>> regulars. I've got a Vivitar cicular polarizer (77 mm) stuck to a
>> >>>> Firecrest IRND 18 sunfilter (77 mm). They seem to have become welded
>> >>>> together. Any advise on how to get them apart? Tried putting on some
>> >>>> heavy duty latex surgical gloves and seeing if that would give me a
>> >>>> better grip, but no use. Any suggestions?.
>> >>>
>> >>> It sounds as if you are in need of a filter wrench of the appropriate 
>> >>> size.
>> >>> Available at B&H, or Amazon.
>> >>>
>> >>> <https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/Other-Filter-
>> >>> Accessories/ci/122/N/4026728365>
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> >> I think I'm going to invest in one.  Finally got them unstuck.  After
>> >> I had them inside for a couple of hours warming they loosened up.
>> >> Arthritis in my fingers, particularly my thumbs, makes these things
>> >> much harder than they used to be.
>> >> 
>> >
>> >I once used a plumber's pipe wrench on a filter stuck on a lens. I 
>> >mounted the lens in the workshop bench vise.
>> >Fortunately it was a filter I didn't care about. And while I cared about 
>> >the lens, it was a common one and not too expensive.
>> 
>> Interesting approach!
>
>the real thing is less than usd 2:
>
><https://www.ebay.com/sch/Filters/15216/i.html?_from=R40&_sop=15&...


Right, and if you want to wait for a few weeks for it to arrive from
China, it's a good deal.  Estimated delivery is between November 21st
and December 26th.

Adorama will get it to you faster, but they add shipping charges so
the total price is about $6.00.  

I'd try the "hare-brained" methods first, though.  I have one of those
rubber strap wrenches that does not harm what it's used on, and it
applies even pressure.  First, though, heat it up with my wife's hair
dryer.   

While I wouldn't begrudge the $2 or $6 expense, or even the delay in
getting the item if I had other lenses to work with, I don't need
another one-time tool around.  I doubt if a second filter will turn
out to need wrenching.

-- 
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida 

	
From: android <here@there.was>
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
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In article<927uvctm0c7qb82n6enke90jqfh9ls7ld9@4ax.com>,
 Tony Cooper<tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, 05 Nov 2017 06:43:45 +0100, android<here@there.was> wrote:
> 
> >In article<llosvc522kjjna9i51nblj7lrhu1bteuab@4ax.com>,
> > rwalker<rwalker@despammed.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Sat, 4 Nov 2017 20:46:42 -0400, Ken Hart<kwhart1@frontier.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> 
> >> >On 11/04/2017 08:33 PM, rwalker wrote:
> >> >> On Sat, 04 Nov 2017 17:27:15 -0700, Savageduck
> >> >> <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
> >> >> 
> >> >>> On Nov 4, 2017, rwalker wrote
> >> >>> (in article<ccjsvcleg5vcdf3l0825fpkh6r9r0km3al@4ax.com>):
> >> >>>
> >> >>>> Haven't checked in here in a long time. Greetings to all the
> >> >>>> regulars. I've got a Vivitar cicular polarizer (77 mm) stuck to a
> >> >>>> Firecrest IRND 18 sunfilter (77 mm). They seem to have become welded
> >> >>>> together. Any advise on how to get them apart? Tried putting on some
> >> >>>> heavy duty latex surgical gloves and seeing if that would give me a
> >> >>>> better grip, but no use. Any suggestions?.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> It sounds as if you are in need of a filter wrench of the appropriate 
> >> >>> size.
> >> >>> Available at B&H, or Amazon.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> <https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/Other-Filter-
> >> >>> Accessories/ci/122/N/4026728365>
> >> >> 
> >> >> 
> >> >> I think I'm going to invest in one.  Finally got them unstuck.  After
> >> >> I had them inside for a couple of hours warming they loosened up.
> >> >> Arthritis in my fingers, particularly my thumbs, makes these things
> >> >> much harder than they used to be.
> >> >> 
> >> >
> >> >I once used a plumber's pipe wrench on a filter stuck on a lens. I 
> >> >mounted the lens in the workshop bench vise.
> >> >Fortunately it was a filter I didn't care about. And while I cared about 
> >> >the lens, it was a common one and not too expensive.
> >> 
> >> Interesting approach!
> >
> >the real thing is less than usd 2:
> >
> ><https://www.ebay.com/sch/Filters/15216/i.html?_from=R40&_sop=15&...
> >wrench&rt=nc&LH_BIN=1>
> 
> 
> Right, and if you want to wait for a few weeks for it to arrive from
> China, it's a good deal.  Estimated delivery is between November 21st
> and December 26th.
> 
> Adorama will get it to you faster, but they add shipping charges so
> the total price is about $6.00.  
> 
> I'd try the "hare-brained" methods first, though.  I have one of those
> rubber strap wrenches that does not harm what it's used on, and it
> applies even pressure.  First, though, heat it up with my wife's hair
> dryer.   

Soo... You'd risk them rubber gaskets in a USD 1K+ weather sealed lense 
by overheating them just to save a few bucks... :-)) Should go into lens 
MF. Cathingcathing!
> 
> While I wouldn't begrudge the $2 or $6 expense, or even the delay in
> getting the item if I had other lenses to work with, I don't need
> another one-time tool around.  I doubt if a second filter will turn
> out to need wrenching.

If they get stuck once then they will probably get stuck again... You 
could use some lube on the threads but be careful though not to overdo it
so that you get smear all over your gear every time you get near the 
front of said lense!
-- 
teleportation kills 

	
From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
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Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
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In article<here-66D736.16124705112017@news.individual.net>, android<here@there.was> wrote:

> If they get stuck once then they will probably get stuck again... You 
> could use some lube on the threads but be careful though not to overdo it
> so that you get smear all over your gear every time you get near the 
> front of said lense!

the solution is to buy quality filters. 

not only do they not bind, but they don't ruin the quality of the
photos. 

	
From: android <here@there.was>
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
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From: android <here@there.was>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2017 18:29:40 +0100
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In article <051120171017564421%nospam@nospam.invalid>,
 nospam<nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> In article<here-66D736.16124705112017@news.individual.net>, android
><here@there.was> wrote:
> 
> > If they get stuck once then they will probably get stuck again... You 
> > could use some lube on the threads but be careful though not to overdo it
> > so that you get smear all over your gear every time you get near the 
> > front of said lense!
> 
> the solution is to buy quality filters. 
> 
> not only do they not bind, but they don't ruin the quality of the
> photos.

Brass is better than aluminum but high quality composite would not stuck 
that easy either. Could be a good alternative if they hold shape. Any 
ring can get stuck though:

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photographic_filter#Filter_sizes_and_m...
ings>
-- 
teleportation kills 

	
From: Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
Full headers:
Path: news.netfront.net!goblin1!goblin.stu.neva.ru!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2017 11:48:25 -0500
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On Sun, 05 Nov 2017 16:12:47 +0100, android<here@there.was> wrote:

>In article<927uvctm0c7qb82n6enke90jqfh9ls7ld9@4ax.com>,
> Tony Cooper<tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 05 Nov 2017 06:43:45 +0100, android<here@there.was> wrote:
>> 
>> >In article<llosvc522kjjna9i51nblj7lrhu1bteuab@4ax.com>,
>> > rwalker<rwalker@despammed.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Sat, 4 Nov 2017 20:46:42 -0400, Ken Hart<kwhart1@frontier.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> 
>> >> >On 11/04/2017 08:33 PM, rwalker wrote:
>> >> >> On Sat, 04 Nov 2017 17:27:15 -0700, Savageduck
>> >> >> <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
>> >> >> 
>> >> >>> On Nov 4, 2017, rwalker wrote
>> >> >>> (in article<ccjsvcleg5vcdf3l0825fpkh6r9r0km3al@4ax.com>):
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>> Haven't checked in here in a long time. Greetings to all the
>> >> >>>> regulars. I've got a Vivitar cicular polarizer (77 mm) stuck to a
>> >> >>>> Firecrest IRND 18 sunfilter (77 mm). They seem to have become welded
>> >> >>>> together. Any advise on how to get them apart? Tried putting on some
>> >> >>>> heavy duty latex surgical gloves and seeing if that would give me a
>> >> >>>> better grip, but no use. Any suggestions?.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> It sounds as if you are in need of a filter wrench of the appropriate 
>> >> >>> size.
>> >> >>> Available at B&H, or Amazon.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> <https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/Other-Filter-
>> >> >>> Accessories/ci/122/N/4026728365>
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> I think I'm going to invest in one.  Finally got them unstuck.  After
>> >> >> I had them inside for a couple of hours warming they loosened up.
>> >> >> Arthritis in my fingers, particularly my thumbs, makes these things
>> >> >> much harder than they used to be.
>> >> >> 
>> >> >
>> >> >I once used a plumber's pipe wrench on a filter stuck on a lens. I 
>> >> >mounted the lens in the workshop bench vise.
>> >> >Fortunately it was a filter I didn't care about. And while I cared about 
>> >> >the lens, it was a common one and not too expensive.
>> >> 
>> >> Interesting approach!
>> >
>> >the real thing is less than usd 2:
>> >
>> ><https://www.ebay.com/sch/Filters/15216/i.html?_from=R40&_sop=15&...
>> >wrench&rt=nc&LH_BIN=1>
>> 
>> 
>> Right, and if you want to wait for a few weeks for it to arrive from
>> China, it's a good deal.  Estimated delivery is between November 21st
>> and December 26th.
>> 
>> Adorama will get it to you faster, but they add shipping charges so
>> the total price is about $6.00.  
>> 
>> I'd try the "hare-brained" methods first, though.  I have one of those
>> rubber strap wrenches that does not harm what it's used on, and it
>> applies even pressure.  First, though, heat it up with my wife's hair
>> dryer.   
>
>Soo... You'd risk them rubber gaskets in a USD 1K+ weather sealed lense 
>by overheating them just to save a few bucks... :-)) Should go into lens 
>MF. Cathingcathing!

If I had a UD $1,000 lens, I wouldn't be using a Vivitar filter on it.

-- 
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida 

	
From: Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com>
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
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On Nov 5, 2017, Tony Cooper wrote
(in article<gufuvcl52vu7u47qf7lkd6qqqlhd048isr@4ax.com>):

> On Sun, 05 Nov 2017 16:12:47 +0100, android<here@there.was>  wrote:
>
> > In article<927uvctm0c7qb82n6enke90jqfh9ls7ld9@4ax.com>,
> > Tony Cooper<tonycooper214@gmail.com>  wrote:
> >
> > > On Sun, 05 Nov 2017 06:43:45 +0100, android<here@there.was>  wrote:
> > >
> > > > In article<llosvc522kjjna9i51nblj7lrhu1bteuab@4ax.com>,
> > > > rwalker<rwalker@despammed.com>  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On Sat, 4 Nov 2017 20:46:42 -0400, Ken Hart<kwhart1@frontier.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > On 11/04/2017 08:33 PM, rwalker wrote:
> > > > > > > On Sat, 04 Nov 2017 17:27:15 -0700, Savageduck
> > > > > > > <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com>  wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Nov 4, 2017, rwalker wrote
> > > > > > > > (in article<ccjsvcleg5vcdf3l0825fpkh6r9r0km3al@4ax.com>):
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Haven't checked in here in a long time. Greetings to all the
> > > > > > > > > regulars. I've got a Vivitar cicular polarizer (77 mm) stuck to a
> > > > > > > > > Firecrest IRND 18 sunfilter (77 mm). They seem to have become welded
> > > > > > > > > together. Any advise on how to get them apart? Tried putting on some
> > > > > > > > > heavy duty latex surgical gloves and seeing if that would give me a
> > > > > > > > > better grip, but no use. Any suggestions?.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > It sounds as if you are in need of a filter wrench of the appropriate
> > > > > > > > size.
> > > > > > > > Available at B&H, or Amazon.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > <https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/Other-Filter-
> > > > > > > > Accessories/ci/122/N/4026728365>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I think I'm going to invest in one. Finally got them unstuck. After
> > > > > > > I had them inside for a couple of hours warming they loosened up.
> > > > > > > Arthritis in my fingers, particularly my thumbs, makes these things
> > > > > > > much harder than they used to be.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I once used a plumber's pipe wrench on a filter stuck on a lens. I
> > > > > > mounted the lens in the workshop bench vise.
> > > > > > Fortunately it was a filter I didn't care about. And while I cared about
> > > > > > the lens, it was a common one and not too expensive.
> > > > >
> > > > > Interesting approach!
> > > >
> > > > the real thing is less than usd 2:
> > > >
> > > > <https://www.ebay.com/sch/Filters/15216/i.html?_from=R40&_sop=15&...
> > > > er+
> > > > wrench&rt=nc&LH_BIN=1>
> > >
> > >
> > > Right, and if you want to wait for a few weeks for it to arrive from
> > > China, it's a good deal. Estimated delivery is between November 21st
> > > and December 26th.
> > >
> > > Adorama will get it to you faster, but they add shipping charges so
> > > the total price is about $6.00.
> > >
> > > I'd try the "hare-brained" methods first, though. I have one of those
> > > rubber strap wrenches that does not harm what it's used on, and it
> > > applies even pressure. First, though, heat it up with my wife's hair
> > > dryer.
> >
> > Soo... You'd risk them rubber gaskets in a USD 1K+ weather sealed lense
> > by overheating them just to save a few bucks... :-)) Should go into lens
> > MF. Cathingcathing!
>
> If I had a UD $1,000 lens, I wouldn't be using a Vivitar filter on it.

I was thinking the same thing. Budget quality, aluminum frame filters are the 
most susceptible to binding. That said not all aluminum construction filters 
have the problem. It is a case of paying for that little extra bit of 
quality, in materials, and construction. It is worth noting that even with 
the better filter brands there are different quality grades.

-- 

Regards,
Savageduck 

	
From: rwalker <rwalker@despammed.com>
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On Sun, 05 Nov 2017 11:48:25 -0500, Tony Cooper<tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 05 Nov 2017 16:12:47 +0100, android<here@there.was> wrote:
>
>>In article<927uvctm0c7qb82n6enke90jqfh9ls7ld9@4ax.com>,
>> Tony Cooper<tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 05 Nov 2017 06:43:45 +0100, android<here@there.was> wrote:
>>> 
>>> >In article<llosvc522kjjna9i51nblj7lrhu1bteuab@4ax.com>,
>>> > rwalker<rwalker@despammed.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> On Sat, 4 Nov 2017 20:46:42 -0400, Ken Hart<kwhart1@frontier.com>
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >> 
>>> >> >On 11/04/2017 08:33 PM, rwalker wrote:
>>> >> >> On Sat, 04 Nov 2017 17:27:15 -0700, Savageduck
>>> >> >> <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
>>> >> >> 
>>> >> >>> On Nov 4, 2017, rwalker wrote
>>> >> >>> (in article<ccjsvcleg5vcdf3l0825fpkh6r9r0km3al@4ax.com>):
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>> Haven't checked in here in a long time. Greetings to all the
>>> >> >>>> regulars. I've got a Vivitar cicular polarizer (77 mm) stuck to a
>>> >> >>>> Firecrest IRND 18 sunfilter (77 mm). They seem to have become welded
>>> >> >>>> together. Any advise on how to get them apart? Tried putting on some
>>> >> >>>> heavy duty latex surgical gloves and seeing if that would give me a
>>> >> >>>> better grip, but no use. Any suggestions?.
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> It sounds as if you are in need of a filter wrench of the appropriate 
>>> >> >>> size.
>>> >> >>> Available at B&H, or Amazon.
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> <https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/Other-Filter-
>>> >> >>> Accessories/ci/122/N/4026728365>
>>> >> >> 
>>> >> >> 
>>> >> >> I think I'm going to invest in one.  Finally got them unstuck.  After
>>> >> >> I had them inside for a couple of hours warming they loosened up.
>>> >> >> Arthritis in my fingers, particularly my thumbs, makes these things
>>> >> >> much harder than they used to be.
>>> >> >> 
>>> >> >
>>> >> >I once used a plumber's pipe wrench on a filter stuck on a lens. I 
>>> >> >mounted the lens in the workshop bench vise.
>>> >> >Fortunately it was a filter I didn't care about. And while I cared about 
>>> >> >the lens, it was a common one and not too expensive.
>>> >> 
>>> >> Interesting approach!
>>> >
>>> >the real thing is less than usd 2:
>>> >
>>> ><https://www.ebay.com/sch/Filters/15216/i.html?_from=R40&_sop=15&...
>>> >wrench&rt=nc&LH_BIN=1>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Right, and if you want to wait for a few weeks for it to arrive from
>>> China, it's a good deal.  Estimated delivery is between November 21st
>>> and December 26th.
>>> 
>>> Adorama will get it to you faster, but they add shipping charges so
>>> the total price is about $6.00.  
>>> 
>>> I'd try the "hare-brained" methods first, though.  I have one of those
>>> rubber strap wrenches that does not harm what it's used on, and it
>>> applies even pressure.  First, though, heat it up with my wife's hair
>>> dryer.   
>>
>>Soo... You'd risk them rubber gaskets in a USD 1K+ weather sealed lense 
>>by overheating them just to save a few bucks... :-)) Should go into lens 
>>MF. Cathingcathing!
>
>If I had a UD $1,000 lens, I wouldn't be using a Vivitar filter on it.

Well, I thought to add in my original post that the vivitar filter was
probably the first mistake, so point taken. 

	
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Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
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In article<927uvctm0c7qb82n6enke90jqfh9ls7ld9@4ax.com>, Tony Cooper<tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:

> >
> >the real thing is less than usd 2:
>
> >><https://www.ebay.com/sch/Filters/15216/i.html?_from=R40&_sop=15&...
> >+wrench&rt=nc&LH_BIN=1>
> 
> Right, and if you want to wait for a few weeks for it to arrive from
> China, it's a good deal.  

most of the time, ebay items from china arrive in about 1-2 weeks. 

> Estimated delivery is between November 21st
> and December 26th.

that's ebay's estimate, not the seller's estimate. 

ebay shipping estimates are worst case scenarios. they are heavily
padded to minimize payouts to buyers for deadbeat sellers. 

	
From: Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com>
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
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On Nov 5, 2017, Tony Cooper wrote
(in article<927uvctm0c7qb82n6enke90jqfh9ls7ld9@4ax.com>):

> On Sun, 05 Nov 2017 06:43:45 +0100, android<here@there.was>  wrote:
>
> > In article<llosvc522kjjna9i51nblj7lrhu1bteuab@4ax.com>,
> > rwalker<rwalker@despammed.com>  wrote:
> >
> > > On Sat, 4 Nov 2017 20:46:42 -0400, Ken Hart<kwhart1@frontier.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > On 11/04/2017 08:33 PM, rwalker wrote:
> > > > > On Sat, 04 Nov 2017 17:27:15 -0700, Savageduck
> > > > > <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com>  wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > On Nov 4, 2017, rwalker wrote
> > > > > > (in article<ccjsvcleg5vcdf3l0825fpkh6r9r0km3al@4ax.com>):
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Haven't checked in here in a long time. Greetings to all the
> > > > > > > regulars. I've got a Vivitar cicular polarizer (77 mm) stuck to a
> > > > > > > Firecrest IRND 18 sunfilter (77 mm). They seem to have become welded
> > > > > > > together. Any advise on how to get them apart? Tried putting on some
> > > > > > > heavy duty latex surgical gloves and seeing if that would give me a
> > > > > > > better grip, but no use. Any suggestions?.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It sounds as if you are in need of a filter wrench of the appropriate
> > > > > > size.
> > > > > > Available at B&H, or Amazon.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > <https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/Other-Filter-
> > > > > > Accessories/ci/122/N/4026728365>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I think I'm going to invest in one. Finally got them unstuck. After
> > > > > I had them inside for a couple of hours warming they loosened up.
> > > > > Arthritis in my fingers, particularly my thumbs, makes these things
> > > > > much harder than they used to be.
> > > >
> > > > I once used a plumber's pipe wrench on a filter stuck on a lens. I
> > > > mounted the lens in the workshop bench vise.
> > > > Fortunately it was a filter I didn't care about. And while I cared about
> > > > the lens, it was a common one and not too expensive.
> > >
> > > Interesting approach!
> >
> > the real thing is less than usd 2:
> >
> > <https://www.ebay.com/sch/Filters/15216/i.html?_from=R40&_sop=15&...
> > +wrench&rt=nc&LH_BIN=1>
>
> Right, and if you want to wait for a few weeks for it to arrive from
> China, it's a good deal. Estimated delivery is between November 21st
> and December 26th.
>
> Adorama will get it to you faster, but they add shipping charges so
> the total price is about $6.00.
>
> I'd try the "hare-brained" methods first, though. I have one of those
> rubber strap wrenches that does not harm what it's used on, and it
> applies even pressure. First, though, heat it up with my wife's hair
> dryer.
>
> While I wouldn't begrudge the $2 or $6 expense, or even the delay in
> getting the item if I had other lenses to work with, I don't need
> another one-time tool around. I doubt if a second filter will turn
> out to need wrenching.

I do not believe any of the hare-brained schemes are a good idea, unless you 
have no regard for the filters, and/or lens.

Even though my strongest recommendation was to buy the filter wrenches from 
B&H, Adorama, Amazon, or the photo store of your choosing. I have not yet had 
the need to do that, as I have always had nylon cable ties handy, and I have 
only had the problem twice some years ago. In both cases the improvised cable 
tie wrench has worked perfectly, and those are available at all hardware, and 
auto parts stores, and Walmart.

These days I take care in attaching filters making sure I don’t over 
tighten, but if I do screw up, I always have those cable ties handy.

-- 

Regards,
Savageduck 

	
From: newshound <newshound@stevejqr.plus.com>
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
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<0001HW.1FAE9263010C56327000079342CF@news.giganews.com>
From: newshound <newshound@stevejqr.plus.com>
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On 05/11/2017 00:27, Savageduck wrote:
> On Nov 4, 2017, rwalker wrote
> (in article<ccjsvcleg5vcdf3l0825fpkh6r9r0km3al@4ax.com>):
> 
>> Haven't checked in here in a long time. Greetings to all the
>> regulars. I've got a Vivitar cicular polarizer (77 mm) stuck to a
>> Firecrest IRND 18 sunfilter (77 mm). They seem to have become welded
>> together. Any advise on how to get them apart. Tried putting on some
>> heavy duty latex surgical gloves and seeing if that would give me a
>> better grip, but no use. Any suggestions?.
> 
> It sounds as if you are in need of a filter wrench of the appropriate size.
> Available at B&H, or Amazon.
> 
> <https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/Other-Filter-
> Accessories/ci/122/N/4026728365>
> 
I'd start with penetrating oil, applied very delicately if it is still 
on a lens! (In your case you could just soak the lot, and clean later 
with IPA). 

	
From: Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com>
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
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On Nov 5, 2017, newshound wrote
(in article<VIqdnfcTer2pfmPEnZ2dnUU78RmdnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>):

> On 05/11/2017 00:27, Savageduck wrote:
> > On Nov 4, 2017, rwalker wrote
> > (in article<ccjsvcleg5vcdf3l0825fpkh6r9r0km3al@4ax.com>):
> >
> > > Haven't checked in here in a long time. Greetings to all the
> > > regulars. I've got a Vivitar cicular polarizer (77 mm) stuck to a
> > > Firecrest IRND 18 sunfilter (77 mm). They seem to have become welded
> > > together. Any advise on how to get them apart. Tried putting on some
> > > heavy duty latex surgical gloves and seeing if that would give me a
> > > better grip, but no use. Any suggestions?.
> >
> > It sounds as if you are in need of a filter wrench of the appropriate size.
> > Available at B&H, or Amazon.
> >
> > <https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/Other-Filter-
> > Accessories/ci/122/N/4026728365>
> I'd start with penetrating oil, applied very delicately if it is still
> on a lens! (In your case you could just soak the lot, and clean later
> with IPA).

Nice try. ;-)

-- 

Regards,
Savageduck 

	
From: charles <ckraft@west.net>
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
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From: charles <ckraft@west.net>
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Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
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On Sat, 04 Nov 2017 19:32:56 -0400, rwalker<rwalker@despammed.com>
wrote:

>Haven't checked in here in a long time.  Greetings to all the
>regulars.  I've got a Vivitar cicular polarizer (77 mm) stuck to a
>Firecrest IRND 18 sunfilter (77 mm).  They seem to have become welded
>together.  Any advise on how to get them apart.  Tried putting on some
>heavy duty latex surgical gloves and seeing if that would give me a
>better grip, but no use.  Any suggestions?.  


3 point grip helps, sometimes.  Thumb and two fingers.  That way thr
filter doesn't distort so baddly. 

	
From: rwalker <rwalker@despammed.com>
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
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From: rwalker <rwalker@despammed.com>
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Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
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On Sat, 04 Nov 2017 20:13:01 -0700, charles<ckraft@west.net> wrote:

>On Sat, 04 Nov 2017 19:32:56 -0400, rwalker<rwalker@despammed.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Haven't checked in here in a long time.  Greetings to all the
>>regulars.  I've got a Vivitar cicular polarizer (77 mm) stuck to a
>>Firecrest IRND 18 sunfilter (77 mm).  They seem to have become welded
>>together.  Any advise on how to get them apart.  Tried putting on some
>>heavy duty latex surgical gloves and seeing if that would give me a
>>better grip, but no use.  Any suggestions?.  
>
>
>3 point grip helps, sometimes.  Thumb and two fingers.  That way thr
>filter doesn't distort so baddly.


Thanks.  Good to know. 

	
From: Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com>
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
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On Nov 4, 2017, rwalker wrote
(in article<3p3tvc5q9mds2j1vju6q40n86u88ms25qb@4ax.com>):

> On Sat, 04 Nov 2017 20:13:01 -0700, charles<ckraft@west.net>  wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 04 Nov 2017 19:32:56 -0400, rwalker<rwalker@despammed.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Haven't checked in here in a long time. Greetings to all the
> > > regulars. I've got a Vivitar cicular polarizer (77 mm) stuck to a
> > > Firecrest IRND 18 sunfilter (77 mm). They seem to have become welded
> > > together. Any advise on how to get them apart. Tried putting on some
> > > heavy duty latex surgical gloves and seeing if that would give me a
> > > better grip, but no use. Any suggestions?.
> >
> >
> > 3 point grip helps, sometimes. Thumb and two fingers. That way thr
> > filter doesn't distort so baddly.
>
> Thanks. Good to know.

Just go with a filter wrench, that is what they are designed for, and forget 
the hare-brained schemes.

-- 

Regards,
Savageduck 

	
From: android <here@there.was>
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
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In article<0001HW.1FAED4FD011BF2327000079342CF@news.giganews.com>,
 Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

> filter wrench

get four. two small and two big for different size of filters. you need 
two so that you can lock the lense. cost nest to nothing... get them now 
so that you have them when you need them:

<https://www.ebay.com/sch/Filters/15216/i.html?_from=R40&_sop=15&...
ter+wrench&rt=nc&LH_BIN=1>
-- 
teleportation kills 

	
From: rwalker <rwalker@despammed.com>
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
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On Sat, 04 Nov 2017 22:11:25 -0700, Savageduck
<savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

>On Nov 4, 2017, rwalker wrote
>(in article<3p3tvc5q9mds2j1vju6q40n86u88ms25qb@4ax.com>):
>
>> On Sat, 04 Nov 2017 20:13:01 -0700, charles<ckraft@west.net>  wrote:
>>
>> > On Sat, 04 Nov 2017 19:32:56 -0400, rwalker<rwalker@despammed.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > Haven't checked in here in a long time. Greetings to all the
>> > > regulars. I've got a Vivitar cicular polarizer (77 mm) stuck to a
>> > > Firecrest IRND 18 sunfilter (77 mm). They seem to have become welded
>> > > together. Any advise on how to get them apart. Tried putting on some
>> > > heavy duty latex surgical gloves and seeing if that would give me a
>> > > better grip, but no use. Any suggestions?.
>> >
>> >
>> > 3 point grip helps, sometimes. Thumb and two fingers. That way thr
>> > filter doesn't distort so baddly.
>>
>> Thanks. Good to know.
>
>Just go with a filter wrench, that is what they are designed for, and forget 
>the hare-brained schemes.


Noted. 

	
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
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From: PeterN <"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2017 10:38:32 -0500
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On 11/5/2017 1:11 AM, Savageduck wrote:
> On Nov 4, 2017, rwalker wrote
> (in article<3p3tvc5q9mds2j1vju6q40n86u88ms25qb@4ax.com>):
> 
>> On Sat, 04 Nov 2017 20:13:01 -0700, charles<ckraft@west.net>  wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 04 Nov 2017 19:32:56 -0400, rwalker<rwalker@despammed.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Haven't checked in here in a long time. Greetings to all the
>>>> regulars. I've got a Vivitar cicular polarizer (77 mm) stuck to a
>>>> Firecrest IRND 18 sunfilter (77 mm). They seem to have become welded
>>>> together. Any advise on how to get them apart. Tried putting on some
>>>> heavy duty latex surgical gloves and seeing if that would give me a
>>>> better grip, but no use. Any suggestions?.
>>>
>>>
>>> 3 point grip helps, sometimes. Thumb and two fingers. That way thr
>>> filter doesn't distort so baddly.
>>
>> Thanks. Good to know.
> 
> Just go with a filter wrench, that is what they are designed for, and forget
> the hare-brained schemes.
> 

Yep.
The only filters I now use are: ND; variable ND; CP; and a variable fog. 
I carry filter wrenches in my bag at all times, although I haven't had a 
stuck filter in over ten years.

-- 
PeterN 

	
From: Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com>
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
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On Nov 6, 2017, PeterN wrote
(in article<otpvla02a2u@news7.newsguy.com>):

> On 11/5/2017 1:11 AM, Savageduck wrote:

<<Snip>>

> > Just go with a filter wrench, that is what they are designed for, and forget
> > the hare-brained schemes.
>
> Yep.
> The only filters I now use are: ND; variable ND; CP; and a variable fog.
> I carry filter wrenches in my bag at all times, although I haven't had a
> stuck filter in over ten years.

When it comes to screw on filters I have ND, CPF, and only one Variable ND. I 
have not been impressed with the variable ND, and it doesn’t get that much 
use. Most recently I bought a few of the Hoya Solas IRND filters.

<https://hoyafilterusa.com/product/hoya-solas-irnd-2/>

I use the screw on filters for those times it is inconvenient to use the Lee 
ND and ND Grad system. The Lee system also includes a pretty good CPF. I use 
the Lee Seven5 system with my Fujifilm X-cameras.

<http://www.leefilters.com/index.php/camera/system-seven5>

-- 

Regards,
Savageduck 

	
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Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
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Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
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On Mon, 06 Nov 2017 09:21:22 -0800, Savageduck
<savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

snip 

>
>When it comes to screw on filters I have ND, CPF, and only one Variable ND. I 
>have not been impressed with the variable ND, and it doesn 

	
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From: PeterN <"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
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On 11/6/2017 12:21 PM, Savageduck wrote:
> On Nov 6, 2017, PeterN wrote
> (in article<otpvla02a2u@news7.newsguy.com>):
> 
>> On 11/5/2017 1:11 AM, Savageduck wrote:
> 
> <<Snip>>
> 
>>> Just go with a filter wrench, that is what they are designed for, and forget
>>> the hare-brained schemes.
>>
>> Yep.
>> The only filters I now use are: ND; variable ND; CP; and a variable fog.
>> I carry filter wrenches in my bag at all times, although I haven't had a
>> stuck filter in over ten years.
> 
> When it comes to screw on filters I have ND, CPF, and only one Variable ND. I
> have not been impressed with the variable ND, and it doesn’t get that much
> use. Most recently I bought a few of the Hoya Solas IRND filters.
> 
> <https://hoyafilterusa.com/product/hoya-solas-irnd-2/>

The variable ND allows me to compose without having to attach the filter 
later. I only use the fixed ND when it is very bright. It is a ten stop. 
In another post I mentioned that I was advised by B&H not to purchase an 
item. It was any of the Lee type filters. I had wanted to get a 
graduated ND filter. Watchagonnado.


> 
> I use the screw on filters for those times it is inconvenient to use the Lee
> ND and ND Grad system. The Lee system also includes a pretty good CPF. I use
> the Lee Seven5 system with my Fujifilm X-cameras.
> 
> <http://www.leefilters.com/index.php/camera/system-seven5>
> 


-- 
PeterN 

	
From: Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com>
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
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On Nov 6, 2017, PeterN wrote
(in article<otqb0n0l5s@news4.newsguy.com>):

> On 11/6/2017 12:21 PM, Savageduck wrote:
> > On Nov 6, 2017, PeterN wrote
> > (in article<otpvla02a2u@news7.newsguy.com>):
> >
> > > On 11/5/2017 1:11 AM, Savageduck wrote:
> >
> > <<Snip>>
> >
> > > > Just go with a filter wrench, that is what they are designed for, and
> > > > forget
> > > > the hare-brained schemes.
> > >
> > > Yep.
> > > The only filters I now use are: ND; variable ND; CP; and a variable fog.
> > > I carry filter wrenches in my bag at all times, although I haven't had a
> > > stuck filter in over ten years.
> >
> > When it comes to screw on filters I have ND, CPF, and only one Variable ND.
> > I
> > have not been impressed with the variable ND, and it doesn’t get that much
> > use. Most recently I bought a few of the Hoya Solas IRND filters.
> >
> > <https://hoyafilterusa.com/product/hoya-solas-irnd-2/>
>
> The variable ND allows me to compose without having to attach the filter
> later.

That was my intention. However, I found that the Vari ND is susceptible to 
many of the issues that can be found with a CPF if you have the wrong angle 
of incidence. The worst of these is the cross polarization phenomenon. That 
is something which doesn’t happen with an ND, or ND Grad.

> I only use the fixed ND when it is very bright. It is a ten stop.

A 10 stop ND is a pretty serious ND, you should only need it if you are 
trying to slow down the shutter speed for a long exposure, smooth out water 
in waterfalls, or surf, or add movement to clouds, and/or if you are trying 
to control DoF, especially if shooting wide open in bright light.

With a 10 stop ND you will not be able to focus with the filter in place, so 
you should be focusing manually, and then attach the 10 ND filter. With screw 
on ND filters I have 2 stop, 4 stop, and 9 stop. I cannot focus with the 9 
stop in place. I have a 10 stop Lee.

Also if it is very bright, there are other steps you can take rather than 
resorting to a 10 stop ND, consider shooting at ISO 100, or ISO 200 and st a 
higher shutter speed, along with a more reasonable ND, somewhere in the 2-6 
stop area.
>
> In another post I mentioned that I was advised by B&H not to purchase an
> item. It was any of the Lee type filters. I had wanted to get a
> graduated ND filter. Watchagonnado.

What “Lee type filters”?
There are Lee filters, and there are other square, and rectangular filter 
systems from other manufacturers, all of different quality. The most 
ubiquitous and least expensive are the Cokin resin filters. Perhaps it was a 
case of the B&H rep understanding that the square and/or rectangular filter 
systems were not suitable for your type of shooting.

BTW: You can get screw on grad filters, I have a few of those
>
>
> >
> > I use the screw on filters for those times it is inconvenient to use the Lee
> > ND and ND Grad system. The Lee system also includes a pretty good CPF. I use
> > the Lee Seven5 system with my Fujifilm X-cameras.
> >
> > <http://www.leefilters.com/index.php/camera/system-seven5>

-- 

Regards,
Savageduck 

	
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From: PeterN <"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
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On 11/6/2017 4:27 PM, Savageduck wrote:
> On Nov 6, 2017, PeterN wrote
> (in article<otqb0n0l5s@news4.newsguy.com>):
> 
>> On 11/6/2017 12:21 PM, Savageduck wrote:
>>> On Nov 6, 2017, PeterN wrote
>>> (in article<otpvla02a2u@news7.newsguy.com>):
>>>
>>>> On 11/5/2017 1:11 AM, Savageduck wrote:
>>>
>>> <<Snip>>
>>>
>>>>> Just go with a filter wrench, that is what they are designed for, and
>>>>> forget
>>>>> the hare-brained schemes.
>>>>
>>>> Yep.
>>>> The only filters I now use are: ND; variable ND; CP; and a variable fog.
>>>> I carry filter wrenches in my bag at all times, although I haven't had a
>>>> stuck filter in over ten years.
>>>
>>> When it comes to screw on filters I have ND, CPF, and only one Variable ND.
>>> I
>>> have not been impressed with the variable ND, and it doesn’t get that much
>>> use. Most recently I bought a few of the Hoya Solas IRND filters.
>>>
>>> <https://hoyafilterusa.com/product/hoya-solas-irnd-2/>
>>
>> The variable ND allows me to compose without having to attach the filter
>> later.
> 
> That was my intention. However, I found that the Vari ND is susceptible to
> many of the issues that can be found with a CPF if you have the wrong angle
> of incidence. The worst of these is the cross polarization phenomenon. That
> is something which doesn’t happen with an ND, or ND Grad.

Before I got the variable ND, I used  tow polarized filters, one linear 
and the other my CP. It worked fine a lot of the time. But, under 
certain lighting conditions there was internal flare. Also, unlike good 
quality ND filters, polarizing filters can cause a color shift.

I use a Heliopan.
<https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/765517-REG/Heliopan_707790_77...


> 
>> I only use the fixed ND when it is very bright. It is a ten stop.
> 
> A 10 stop ND is a pretty serious ND, you should only need it if you are
> trying to slow down the shutter speed for a long exposure, smooth out water
> in waterfalls, or surf, or add movement to clouds, and/or if you are trying
> to control DoF, especially if shooting wide open in bright light.

Spot on. BTW there are other methods for smoothing water. multiple 
exposure works fine. You can get a nice silky effect from many 
waterfalls by shooting 1/5 to 1/50 of a second, depending on conditions 
and your taste.
> 
> With a 10 stop ND you will not be able to focus with the filter in place, so
> you should be focusing manually, and then attach the 10 ND filter. With screw
> on ND filters I have 2 stop, 4 stop, and 9 stop. I cannot focus with the 9
> stop in place. I have a 10 stop Lee.
> 
> Also if it is very bright, there are other steps you can take rather than
> resorting to a 10 stop ND, consider shooting at ISO 100, or ISO 200 and st a
> higher shutter speed, along with a more reasonable ND, somewhere in the 2-6
> stop area.
>>
>> In another post I mentioned that I was advised by B&H not to purchase an
>> item. It was any of the Lee type filters. I had wanted to get a
>> graduated ND filter. Watchagonnado.
> 
> What “Lee type filters”?

The sales rep made it clear that no plastic filter would give me the 
satisfactory results.

> There are Lee filters, and there are other square, and rectangular filter
> systems from other manufacturers, all of different quality. The most
> ubiquitous and least expensive are the Cokin resin filters. Perhaps it was a
> case of the B&H rep understanding that the square and/or rectangular filter
> systems were not suitable for your type of shooting.

Yes, his suggestive was that I go back to an old wet darkroom method. 
Dodge the really light areas, using black cardboard or my hands. There 
is a lot of trial and error, but it works. After a while I got a sense 
of how long to dodge. And with the dynamic range of my camera, 
corrections can be made in post.

> 
> BTW: You can get screw on grad filters, I have a few of those

They work great, if you like every image to have a similar look, and 
shooting conditions are always the same. The square graduated filters 
can be move vertically, within limits.


>>
>>
>>>
>>> I use the screw on filters for those times it is inconvenient to use the Lee
>>> ND and ND Grad system. The Lee system also includes a pretty good CPF. I use
>>> the Lee Seven5 system with my Fujifilm X-cameras.
>>>
>>> <http://www.leefilters.com/index.php/camera/system-seven5>
> 

As we determined long ago, we have very different shooting styles, and 
tastes.


-- 
PeterN 

	
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Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
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On Nov 7, 2017, PeterN wrote
(in article<otstch02d2i@news4.newsguy.com>):

> On 11/6/2017 4:27 PM, Savageduck wrote:
> > On Nov 6, 2017, PeterN wrote
> > (in article<otqb0n0l5s@news4.newsguy.com>):
> >
> > > On 11/6/2017 12:21 PM, Savageduck wrote:
> > > > On Nov 6, 2017, PeterN wrote
> > > > (in article<otpvla02a2u@news7.newsguy.com>):
> > > >
> > > > > On 11/5/2017 1:11 AM, Savageduck wrote:
> > > >
> > > > <<Snip>>
> > > >
> > > > > > Just go with a filter wrench, that is what they are designed for, and
> > > > > > forget
> > > > > > the hare-brained schemes.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yep.
> > > > > The only filters I now use are: ND; variable ND; CP; and a variable fog.
> > > > > I carry filter wrenches in my bag at all times, although I haven't had a
> > > > > stuck filter in over ten years.
> > > >
> > > > When it comes to screw on filters I have ND, CPF, and only one Variable
> > > > ND.
> > > > I
> > > > have not been impressed with the variable ND, and it doesn’t get that
> > > > much
> > > > use. Most recently I bought a few of the Hoya Solas IRND filters.
> > > >
> > > > <https://hoyafilterusa.com/product/hoya-solas-irnd-2/>
> > >
> > > The variable ND allows me to compose without having to attach the filter
> > > later.
> >
> > That was my intention. However, I found that the Vari ND is susceptible to
> > many of the issues that can be found with a CPF if you have the wrong angle
> > of incidence. The worst of these is the cross polarization phenomenon. That
> > is something which doesn’t happen with an ND, or ND Grad.
>
> Before I got the variable ND, I used tow polarized filters, one linear
> and the other my CP. It worked fine a lot of the time. But, under
> certain lighting conditions there was internal flare. Also, unlike good
> quality ND filters, polarizing filters can cause a color shift.
>
> I use a Heliopan.
> <https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/765517-REG/Heliopan_707790_77...
> Neutral_Density.html>
>
> >
> > > I only use the fixed ND when it is very bright. It is a ten stop.
> >
> > A 10 stop ND is a pretty serious ND, you should only need it if you are
> > trying to slow down the shutter speed for a long exposure, smooth out water
> > in waterfalls, or surf, or add movement to clouds, and/or if you are trying
> > to control DoF, especially if shooting wide open in bright light.
>
> Spot on. BTW there are other methods for smoothing water. multiple
> exposure works fine. You can get a nice silky effect from many
> waterfalls by shooting 1/5 to 1/50 of a second, depending on conditions
> and your taste.
> >
> > With a 10 stop ND you will not be able to focus with the filter in place, so
> > you should be focusing manually, and then attach the 10 ND filter. With
> > screw on ND filters I have 2 stop, 4 stop, and 9 stop. I cannot focus with the 9
> > stop in place. I have a 10 stop Lee.
> >
> > Also if it is very bright, there are other steps you can take rather than
> > resorting to a 10 stop ND, consider shooting at ISO 100, or ISO 200 and st a
> > higher shutter speed, along with a more reasonable ND, somewhere in the 2-6
> > stop area.
> > >
> > > In another post I mentioned that I was advised by B&H not to purchase an
> > > item. It was any of the Lee type filters. I had wanted to get a
> > > graduated ND filter. Watchagonnado.
> >
> > What “Lee type filters”?
>
> The sales rep made it clear that no plastic filter would give me the
> satisfactory results.

As much as the sales rep was helpful, this might have been one area where his 
knowledge was limited by personal bias, or limited knowledge of the latest 
advances in filter tech.

Not all the rectangular/square filters are ‘plastic’, and the quality of 
the optical resin, not plastic filters used by the best of those systems are 
pretty good, and those systems should not suffer a blanket condemnation 
because of a sales ref’s opinion. They provide a solution where none exists 
for screw on filters.

Consider these ‘glass' filters made by Lee &  others:

<http://www.leefilters.com/index.php/camera/proglass-nd>

<http://www.formatt-hitech.com>

<http://en.nisifilters.com/square-nd-filters>

With what you do do some of your images in post, how would you tell if you 
got a satisfactory result, or not?
>
> > There are Lee filters, and there are other square, and rectangular filter
> > systems from other manufacturers, all of different quality. The most
> > ubiquitous and least expensive are the Cokin resin filters. Perhaps it was a
> > case of the B&H rep understanding that the square and/or rectangular filter
> > systems were not suitable for your type of shooting.
>
> Yes, his suggestive was that I go back to an old wet darkroom method.
> Dodge the really light areas, using black cardboard or my hands. There
> is a lot of trial and error, but it works. After a while I got a sense
> of how long to dodge. And with the dynamic range of my camera,
> corrections can be made in post.

When was this?
>
> > BTW: You can get screw on grad filters, I have a few of those
>
> They work great, if you like every image to have a similar look, and
> shooting conditions are always the same. The square graduated filters
> can be move vertically, within limits.

That is the reason I don’t carry them as a regular part of my kit.
> > > >
> > > > I use the screw on filters for those times it is inconvenient to use the
> > > > Lee ND and ND Grad system. The Lee system also includes a pretty good CPF. I
> > > > use the Lee Seven5 system with my Fujifilm X-cameras.
> > > >
> > > > <http://www.leefilters.com/index.php/camera/system-seven5>
>
> As we determined long ago, we have very different shooting styles, and
> tastes.

True. However, there are some areas where some understanding, use of, and 
experimentation with equipment is shared.

-- 

Regards,
Savageduck 

	
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
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From: PeterN <"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2017 18:11:02 -0500
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On 11/7/2017 2:03 PM, Savageduck wrote:
> On Nov 7, 2017, PeterN wrote
> (in article<otstch02d2i@news4.newsguy.com>):
> 
>> On 11/6/2017 4:27 PM, Savageduck wrote:
>>> On Nov 6, 2017, PeterN wrote
>>> (in article<otqb0n0l5s@news4.newsguy.com>):
>>>
>>>> On 11/6/2017 12:21 PM, Savageduck wrote:
>>>>> On Nov 6, 2017, PeterN wrote
>>>>> (in article<otpvla02a2u@news7.newsguy.com>):
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 11/5/2017 1:11 AM, Savageduck wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> <<Snip>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just go with a filter wrench, that is what they are designed for, and
>>>>>>> forget
>>>>>>> the hare-brained schemes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yep.
>>>>>> The only filters I now use are: ND; variable ND; CP; and a variable fog.
>>>>>> I carry filter wrenches in my bag at all times, although I haven't had a
>>>>>> stuck filter in over ten years.
>>>>>
>>>>> When it comes to screw on filters I have ND, CPF, and only one Variable
>>>>> ND.
>>>>> I
>>>>> have not been impressed with the variable ND, and it doesn’t get that
>>>>> much
>>>>> use. Most recently I bought a few of the Hoya Solas IRND filters.
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://hoyafilterusa.com/product/hoya-solas-irnd-2/>
>>>>
>>>> The variable ND allows me to compose without having to attach the filter
>>>> later.
>>>
>>> That was my intention. However, I found that the Vari ND is susceptible to
>>> many of the issues that can be found with a CPF if you have the wrong angle
>>> of incidence. The worst of these is the cross polarization phenomenon. That
>>> is something which doesn’t happen with an ND, or ND Grad.
>>
>> Before I got the variable ND, I used tow polarized filters, one linear
>> and the other my CP. It worked fine a lot of the time. But, under
>> certain lighting conditions there was internal flare. Also, unlike good
>> quality ND filters, polarizing filters can cause a color shift.
>>
>> I use a Heliopan.
>> <https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/765517-REG/Heliopan_707790_77...
>> Neutral_Density.html>
>>
>>>
>>>> I only use the fixed ND when it is very bright. It is a ten stop.
>>>
>>> A 10 stop ND is a pretty serious ND, you should only need it if you are
>>> trying to slow down the shutter speed for a long exposure, smooth out water
>>> in waterfalls, or surf, or add movement to clouds, and/or if you are trying
>>> to control DoF, especially if shooting wide open in bright light.
>>
>> Spot on. BTW there are other methods for smoothing water. multiple
>> exposure works fine. You can get a nice silky effect from many
>> waterfalls by shooting 1/5 to 1/50 of a second, depending on conditions
>> and your taste.
>>>
>>> With a 10 stop ND you will not be able to focus with the filter in place, so
>>> you should be focusing manually, and then attach the 10 ND filter. With
>>> screw on ND filters I have 2 stop, 4 stop, and 9 stop. I cannot focus with the 9
>>> stop in place. I have a 10 stop Lee.
>>>
>>> Also if it is very bright, there are other steps you can take rather than
>>> resorting to a 10 stop ND, consider shooting at ISO 100, or ISO 200 and st a
>>> higher shutter speed, along with a more reasonable ND, somewhere in the 2-6
>>> stop area.
>>>>
>>>> In another post I mentioned that I was advised by B&H not to purchase an
>>>> item. It was any of the Lee type filters. I had wanted to get a
>>>> graduated ND filter. Watchagonnado.
>>>
>>> What “Lee type filters”?
>>
>> The sales rep made it clear that no plastic filter would give me the
>> satisfactory results.
> 
> As much as the sales rep was helpful, this might have been one area where his
> knowledge was limited by personal bias, or limited knowledge of the latest
> advances in filter tech.
> 

I think most of use form conclusions based upon our life experiences.

> Not all the rectangular/square filters are ‘plastic’, and the quality of
> the optical resin, not plastic filters used by the best of those systems are
> pretty good, and those systems should not suffer a blanket condemnation
> because of a sales ref’s opinion. They provide a solution where none exists
> for screw on filters.
> 
> Consider these ‘glass' filters made by Lee &  others:
> 
> <http://www.leefilters.com/index.php/camera/proglass-nd>
> 
> <http://www.formatt-hitech.com>
> 
> <http://en.nisifilters.com/square-nd-filters>
> 
> With what you do do some of your images in post, how would you tell if you
> got a satisfactory result, or not?

Whether I like them.


>>
>>> There are Lee filters, and there are other square, and rectangular filter
>>> systems from other manufacturers, all of different quality. The most
>>> ubiquitous and least expensive are the Cokin resin filters. Perhaps it was a
>>> case of the B&H rep understanding that the square and/or rectangular filter
>>> systems were not suitable for your type of shooting.
>>
>> Yes, his suggestive was that I go back to an old wet darkroom method.
>> Dodge the really light areas, using black cardboard or my hands. There
>> is a lot of trial and error, but it works. After a while I got a sense
>> of how long to dodge. And with the dynamic range of my camera,
>> corrections can be made in post.
> 
> When was this?

A few years ago

>>
>>> BTW: You can get screw on grad filters, I have a few of those
>>
>> They work great, if you like every image to have a similar look, and
>> shooting conditions are always the same. The square graduated filters
>> can be move vertically, within limits.
> 
> That is the reason I don’t carry them as a regular part of my kit.
>>>>>
>>>>> I use the screw on filters for those times it is inconvenient to use the
>>>>> Lee ND and ND Grad system. The Lee system also includes a pretty good CPF. I
>>>>> use the Lee Seven5 system with my Fujifilm X-cameras.
>>>>>
>>>>> <http://www.leefilters.com/index.php/camera/system-seven5>
>>
>> As we determined long ago, we have very different shooting styles, and
>> tastes.
> 
> True. However, there are some areas where some understanding, use of, and
> experimentation with equipment is shared.
> 
Hope so.

-- 
PeterN 

	
From: Ron C <r.capik@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
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On 11/7/2017 6:11 PM, PeterN wrote:
> On 11/7/2017 2:03 PM, Savageduck wrote:
>> On Nov 7, 2017, PeterN wrote
>> (in article<otstch02d2i@news4.newsguy.com>):
>>

          <<<< gigantic snips >>>>

>>>
>>> Yes, his suggestive was that I go back to an old wet darkroom method.
>>> Dodge the really light areas, using black cardboard or my hands. There
>>> is a lot of trial and error, but it works. After a while I got a sense
>>> of how long to dodge. And with the dynamic range of my camera,
>>> corrections can be made in post.
>>
>> When was this?
> 
> A few years ago
> 
>>>

I'm really confused. How in the world can one use their hand
or black cardboard to dodge a digital photo?

None of the tools/brushes in Photoshop seem to be set up to
emulate those [hand/cardboard] tools of old.
~~
~( hope I got the clipped attributes right.)~
-- 
==
Later...
Ron C
-- 

	
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Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
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In article<fIKdndMxgZe535_HnZ2dnUU7-b_NnZ2d@giganews.com>, Ron C<r.capik@verizon.net> wrote:

> >>> Yes, his suggestive was that I go back to an old wet darkroom method.
> >>> Dodge the really light areas, using black cardboard or my hands. There
> >>> is a lot of trial and error, but it works. After a while I got a sense
> >>> of how long to dodge. And with the dynamic range of my camera,
> >>> corrections can be made in post.
> >>
> >> When was this?
> > 
> > A few years ago
> > 
> >>>
> 
> I'm really confused. How in the world can one use their hand
> or black cardboard to dodge a digital photo?
> 
> None of the tools/brushes in Photoshop seem to be set up to
> emulate those [hand/cardboard] tools of old.

the dodge/burn tool does exactly that.

however, there are much better options available now. 

	
From: Ron C <r.capik@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
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On 11/7/2017 6:41 PM, nospam wrote:
> In article<fIKdndMxgZe535_HnZ2dnUU7-b_NnZ2d@giganews.com>, Ron C
><r.capik@verizon.net> wrote:
> 
>>>>> Yes, his suggestive was that I go back to an old wet darkroom method.
>>>>> Dodge the really light areas, using black cardboard or my hands. There
>>>>> is a lot of trial and error, but it works. After a while I got a sense
>>>>> of how long to dodge. And with the dynamic range of my camera,
>>>>> corrections can be made in post.
>>>>
>>>> When was this?
>>>
>>> A few years ago
>>>
>>>>>
>>
>> I'm really confused. How in the world can one use their hand
>> or black cardboard to dodge a digital photo?
>>
>> None of the tools/brushes in Photoshop seem to be set up to
>> emulate those [hand/cardboard] tools of old.
> 
> the dodge/burn tool does exactly that.
> 
> however, there are much better options available now.
>
Nothing that I know of in Photoshop emulates the actual
physical actions of hand/cardboard dodging. 

	
From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
Full headers:
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From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2017 20:18:04 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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In article<6LGdndCoffiYxJ_HnZ2dnUU7-TPNnZ2d@giganews.com>, Ron C<r.capik@verizon.net> wrote:

> >>>>> Yes, his suggestive was that I go back to an old wet darkroom method.
> >>>>> Dodge the really light areas, using black cardboard or my hands. There
> >>>>> is a lot of trial and error, but it works. After a while I got a sense
> >>>>> of how long to dodge. And with the dynamic range of my camera,
> >>>>> corrections can be made in post.
> >>>>
> >>>> When was this?
> >>>
> >>> A few years ago
> >>>
> >>>>>
> >>
> >> I'm really confused. How in the world can one use their hand
> >> or black cardboard to dodge a digital photo?
> >>
> >> None of the tools/brushes in Photoshop seem to be set up to
> >> emulate those [hand/cardboard] tools of old.
> > 
> > the dodge/burn tool does exactly that.
> > 
> > however, there are much better options available now.
> >
> Nothing that I know of in Photoshop emulates the actual
> physical actions of hand/cardboard dodging.

now you know.

<https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/using/dodge-burn-image-areas.html&...
  The Dodge tool and the Burn tool lighten or darken areas of the
  image. These tools are based on a traditional darkroom technique for
  regulating exposure on specific areas of a print. 

	
From: Ron C <r.capik@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
Full headers:
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Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
References: <ccjsvcleg5vcdf3l0825fpkh6r9r0km3al@4ax.com>
<rb0tvchepq6vj5t7ineq6t5q995vrh9qok@4ax.com>
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From: Ron C <r.capik@verizon.net>
Organization: Say what?
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2017 22:35:15 -0500
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On 11/7/2017 8:18 PM, nospam wrote:
> In article<6LGdndCoffiYxJ_HnZ2dnUU7-TPNnZ2d@giganews.com>, Ron C
><r.capik@verizon.net> wrote:
> 
>>>>>>> Yes, his suggestive was that I go back to an old wet darkroom method.
>>>>>>> Dodge the really light areas, using black cardboard or my hands. There
>>>>>>> is a lot of trial and error, but it works. After a while I got a sense
>>>>>>> of how long to dodge. And with the dynamic range of my camera,
>>>>>>> corrections can be made in post.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When was this?
>>>>>
>>>>> A few years ago
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm really confused. How in the world can one use their hand
>>>> or black cardboard to dodge a digital photo?
>>>>
>>>> None of the tools/brushes in Photoshop seem to be set up to
>>>> emulate those [hand/cardboard] tools of old.
>>>
>>> the dodge/burn tool does exactly that.
>>>
>>> however, there are much better options available now.
>>>
>> Nothing that I know of in Photoshop emulates the actual
>> physical actions of hand/cardboard dodging.
> 
> now you know.
> 
> <https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/using/dodge-burn-image-areas.html&...
>    The Dodge tool and the Burn tool lighten or darken areas of the
>    image. These tools are based on a traditional darkroom technique for
>    regulating exposure on specific areas of a print.
> 
Says nothing about that actual visceral actions used in
the process ...back in the day. 

	
From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
Full headers:
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From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2017 22:54:47 -0500
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In article<fb2dnZSTmK_l5p_HnZ2dnUU7-TXNnZ2d@giganews.com>, Ron C<r.capik@verizon.net> wrote:

> >>>>>>> Yes, his suggestive was that I go back to an old wet darkroom method.
> >>>>>>> Dodge the really light areas, using black cardboard or my hands. There
> >>>>>>> is a lot of trial and error, but it works. After a while I got a sense
> >>>>>>> of how long to dodge. And with the dynamic range of my camera,
> >>>>>>> corrections can be made in post.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> When was this?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> A few years ago
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm really confused. How in the world can one use their hand
> >>>> or black cardboard to dodge a digital photo?
> >>>>
> >>>> None of the tools/brushes in Photoshop seem to be set up to
> >>>> emulate those [hand/cardboard] tools of old.
> >>>
> >>> the dodge/burn tool does exactly that.
> >>>
> >>> however, there are much better options available now.
> >>>
> >> Nothing that I know of in Photoshop emulates the actual
> >> physical actions of hand/cardboard dodging.
> > 
> > now you know.
> > 
> > <https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/using/dodge-burn-image-areas.html&...
> >    The Dodge tool and the Burn tool lighten or darken areas of the
> >    image. These tools are based on a traditional darkroom technique for
> >    regulating exposure on specific areas of a print.
> 
> Says nothing about that actual visceral actions used in
> the process ...back in the day.

instead of moving cardboard, it's moving a mouse or stylus. big deal.

what it doesn't say is it has a major advantage of being able to
instantly undo anything, versus having to redo the entire print in a
darkroom.

dodge/burn is also incredibly primitive and imprecise, but back in the
day, there weren't very many other options. now there are. 

	
From: Ron C <r.capik@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
Full headers:
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Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
References: <ccjsvcleg5vcdf3l0825fpkh6r9r0km3al@4ax.com>
<rb0tvchepq6vj5t7ineq6t5q995vrh9qok@4ax.com>
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<071120172254470188%nospam@nospam.invalid>
From: Ron C <r.capik@verizon.net>
Organization: Say what?
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2017 23:20:11 -0500
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On 11/7/2017 10:54 PM, nospam wrote:
> In article<fb2dnZSTmK_l5p_HnZ2dnUU7-TXNnZ2d@giganews.com>, Ron C
><r.capik@verizon.net> wrote:
> 
>>>>>>>>> Yes, his suggestive was that I go back to an old wet darkroom method.
>>>>>>>>> Dodge the really light areas, using black cardboard or my hands. There
>>>>>>>>> is a lot of trial and error, but it works. After a while I got a sense
>>>>>>>>> of how long to dodge. And with the dynamic range of my camera,
>>>>>>>>> corrections can be made in post.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When was this?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A few years ago
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm really confused. How in the world can one use their hand
>>>>>> or black cardboard to dodge a digital photo?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> None of the tools/brushes in Photoshop seem to be set up to
>>>>>> emulate those [hand/cardboard] tools of old.
>>>>>
>>>>> the dodge/burn tool does exactly that.
>>>>>
>>>>> however, there are much better options available now.
>>>>>
>>>> Nothing that I know of in Photoshop emulates the actual
>>>> physical actions of hand/cardboard dodging.
>>>
>>> now you know.
>>>
>>> <https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/using/dodge-burn-image-areas.html&...
>>>     The Dodge tool and the Burn tool lighten or darken areas of the
>>>     image. These tools are based on a traditional darkroom technique for
>>>     regulating exposure on specific areas of a print.
>>
>> Says nothing about that actual visceral actions used in
>> the process ...back in the day.
> 
> instead of moving cardboard, it's moving a mouse or stylus. big deal.
> 
> what it doesn't say is it has a major advantage of being able to
> instantly undo anything, versus having to redo the entire print in a
> darkroom.
> 
> dodge/burn is also incredibly primitive and imprecise, but back in the
> day, there weren't very many other options. now there are.
> 
So you're admitting that the wet darkroom analogy is flawed.
I can live with that. 

	
From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
Full headers:
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From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2017 23:34:36 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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In article<d6OdnUFKR8FiGJ_HnZ2dnUU7-VnNnZ2d@giganews.com>, Ron C<r.capik@verizon.net> wrote:

> >>>> Nothing that I know of in Photoshop emulates the actual
> >>>> physical actions of hand/cardboard dodging.
> >>>
> >>> now you know.
> >>>
> >>> <https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/using/dodge-burn-image-areas.html&...
> >>>     The Dodge tool and the Burn tool lighten or darken areas of the
> >>>     image. These tools are based on a traditional darkroom technique for
> >>>     regulating exposure on specific areas of a print.
> >>
> >> Says nothing about that actual visceral actions used in
> >> the process ...back in the day.
> > 
> > instead of moving cardboard, it's moving a mouse or stylus. big deal.
> > 
> > what it doesn't say is it has a major advantage of being able to
> > instantly undo anything, versus having to redo the entire print in a
> > darkroom.
> > 
> > dodge/burn is also incredibly primitive and imprecise, but back in the
> > day, there weren't very many other options. now there are.
> > 
> So you're admitting that the wet darkroom analogy is flawed.

nope. 

the analogy is spot on, however, the technique is obsolete. 

> I can live with that.

you're living in the past and refuse to learn newer and better ways. 

	
From: Ron C <r.capik@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
Full headers:
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NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2017 19:25:43 -0600
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
References: <ccjsvcleg5vcdf3l0825fpkh6r9r0km3al@4ax.com>
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From: Ron C <r.capik@verizon.net>
Organization: Say what?
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2017 20:25:43 -0500
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On 11/7/2017 11:34 PM, nospam wrote:
> In article<d6OdnUFKR8FiGJ_HnZ2dnUU7-VnNnZ2d@giganews.com>, Ron C
><r.capik@verizon.net> wrote:
> 
>>>>>> Nothing that I know of in Photoshop emulates the actual
>>>>>> physical actions of hand/cardboard dodging.
>>>>>
>>>>> now you know.
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/using/dodge-burn-image-areas.html&...
>>>>>      The Dodge tool and the Burn tool lighten or darken areas of the
>>>>>      image. These tools are based on a traditional darkroom technique for
>>>>>      regulating exposure on specific areas of a print.
>>>>
>>>> Says nothing about that actual visceral actions used in
>>>> the process ...back in the day.
>>>
>>> instead of moving cardboard, it's moving a mouse or stylus. big deal.
>>>
>>> what it doesn't say is it has a major advantage of being able to
>>> instantly undo anything, versus having to redo the entire print in a
>>> darkroom.
>>>
>>> dodge/burn is also incredibly primitive and imprecise, but back in the
>>> day, there weren't very many other options. now there are.
>>>
>> So you're admitting that the wet darkroom analogy is flawed.
> 
> nope.
> 
> the analogy is spot on, however, the technique is obsolete.
> 
>> I can live with that.
> 
> you're living in the past and refuse to learn newer and better ways.
> 
OK, you've got me pegged. I also listen to music with my old eight-track
cartridge player on my vacuum tube hi-fi and watch VHS tapes on
an analog CRT TV-set. I'm going back to sleep now.
-- 
==
Later...
Ron C
-- 

	
From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
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From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2017 22:49:27 -0500
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In article<p7SdnS7nBegKM57HnZ2dnUU7-LvNnZ2d@giganews.com>, Ron C<r.capik@verizon.net> wrote:

> >>>> Says nothing about that actual visceral actions used in
> >>>> the process ...back in the day.
> >>>
> >>> instead of moving cardboard, it's moving a mouse or stylus. big deal.
> >>>
> >>> what it doesn't say is it has a major advantage of being able to
> >>> instantly undo anything, versus having to redo the entire print in a
> >>> darkroom.
> >>>
> >>> dodge/burn is also incredibly primitive and imprecise, but back in the
> >>> day, there weren't very many other options. now there are.
> >>>
> >> So you're admitting that the wet darkroom analogy is flawed.
> > 
> > nope.
> > 
> > the analogy is spot on, however, the technique is obsolete.
> > 
> >> I can live with that.
> > 
> > you're living in the past and refuse to learn newer and better ways.
> > 
> OK, you've got me pegged. I also listen to music with my old eight-track
> cartridge player on my vacuum tube hi-fi and watch VHS tapes on
> an analog CRT TV-set. I'm going back to sleep now.

there's nothing wrong with that, unless you think those are somehow
better than modern digital audio and hdtv. 

	
From: Ron C <r.capik@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
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Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
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From: Ron C <r.capik@verizon.net>
Organization: Say what?
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2017 23:15:14 -0500
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On 11/8/2017 10:49 PM, nospam wrote:
> In article<p7SdnS7nBegKM57HnZ2dnUU7-LvNnZ2d@giganews.com>, Ron C
><r.capik@verizon.net> wrote:
> 
>>>>>> Says nothing about that actual visceral actions used in
>>>>>> the process ...back in the day.
>>>>>
>>>>> instead of moving cardboard, it's moving a mouse or stylus. big deal.
>>>>>
>>>>> what it doesn't say is it has a major advantage of being able to
>>>>> instantly undo anything, versus having to redo the entire print in a
>>>>> darkroom.
>>>>>
>>>>> dodge/burn is also incredibly primitive and imprecise, but back in the
>>>>> day, there weren't very many other options. now there are.
>>>>>
>>>> So you're admitting that the wet darkroom analogy is flawed.
>>>
>>> nope.
>>>
>>> the analogy is spot on, however, the technique is obsolete.
>>>
>>>> I can live with that.
>>>
>>> you're living in the past and refuse to learn newer and better ways.
>>>
>> OK, you've got me pegged. I also listen to music with my old eight-track
>> cartridge player on my vacuum tube hi-fi and watch VHS tapes on
>> an analog CRT TV-set. I'm going back to sleep now.
> 
> there's nothing wrong with that, unless you think those are somehow
> better than modern digital audio and hdtv.
> 
No. It's just that I'm "living in the past and refuse to learn newer and 
better ways."
As "they" say: Ignorance is bliss.
Damn, [rhetorically:] why the heck did I wake up for this.
I'm going back to sleep again. 

	
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
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From: PeterN <"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2017 22:59:45 -0500
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On 11/7/2017 10:35 PM, Ron C wrote:
> On 11/7/2017 8:18 PM, nospam wrote:
>> In article<6LGdndCoffiYxJ_HnZ2dnUU7-TPNnZ2d@giganews.com>, Ron C
>><r.capik@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>> Yes, his suggestive was that I go back to an old wet darkroom 
>>>>>>>> method.
>>>>>>>> Dodge the really light areas, using black cardboard or my hands. 
>>>>>>>> There
>>>>>>>> is a lot of trial and error, but it works. After a while I got a 
>>>>>>>> sense
>>>>>>>> of how long to dodge. And with the dynamic range of my camera,
>>>>>>>> corrections can be made in post.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When was this?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A few years ago
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm really confused. How in the world can one use their hand
>>>>> or black cardboard to dodge a digital photo?
>>>>>
>>>>> None of the tools/brushes in Photoshop seem to be set up to
>>>>> emulate those [hand/cardboard] tools of old.
>>>>
>>>> the dodge/burn tool does exactly that.
>>>>
>>>> however, there are much better options available now.
>>>>
>>> Nothing that I know of in Photoshop emulates the actual
>>> physical actions of hand/cardboard dodging.
>>
>> now you know.
>>
>> <https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/using/dodge-burn-image-areas.html&...
>> 

	
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
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From: PeterN <"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2017 22:49:51 -0500
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On 11/7/2017 8:08 PM, Ron C wrote:
> On 11/7/2017 6:41 PM, nospam wrote:
>> In article<fIKdndMxgZe535_HnZ2dnUU7-b_NnZ2d@giganews.com>, Ron C
>><r.capik@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>>>>> Yes, his suggestive was that I go back to an old wet darkroom method.
>>>>>> Dodge the really light areas, using black cardboard or my hands. 
>>>>>> There
>>>>>> is a lot of trial and error, but it works. After a while I got a 
>>>>>> sense
>>>>>> of how long to dodge. And with the dynamic range of my camera,
>>>>>> corrections can be made in post.
>>>>>
>>>>> When was this?
>>>>
>>>> A few years ago
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>> I'm really confused. How in the world can one use their hand
>>> or black cardboard to dodge a digital photo?
>>>
>>> None of the tools/brushes in Photoshop seem to be set up to
>>> emulate those [hand/cardboard] tools of old.
>>
>> the dodge/burn tool does exactly that.
>>
>> however, there are much better options available now.
>>
> Nothing that I know of in Photoshop emulates the actual
> physical actions of hand/cardboard dodging.
> 
> 

It's not done in PS. It's done during the initial exposure.

-- 
PeterN 

	
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
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From: PeterN <"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2017 22:48:53 -0500
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On 11/7/2017 6:30 PM, Ron C wrote:
> On 11/7/2017 6:11 PM, PeterN wrote:
>> On 11/7/2017 2:03 PM, Savageduck wrote:
>>> On Nov 7, 2017, PeterN wrote
>>> (in article<otstch02d2i@news4.newsguy.com>):
>>>
> 
> 

	
From: Ron C <r.capik@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
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Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
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From: Ron C <r.capik@verizon.net>
Organization: Say what?
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2017 22:55:46 -0500
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On 11/7/2017 10:48 PM, PeterN wrote:
> On 11/7/2017 6:30 PM, Ron C wrote:
>> On 11/7/2017 6:11 PM, PeterN wrote:
>>> On 11/7/2017 2:03 PM, Savageduck wrote:
>>>> On Nov 7, 2017, PeterN wrote
>>>> (in article<otstch02d2i@news4.newsguy.com>):
>>>>
>>
>> 

	
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
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From: PeterN <"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2017 23:01:44 -0500
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On 11/7/2017 10:55 PM, Ron C wrote:
> 
>> On Nov 7, 2017, PeterN wrote 

Same theory.

-- 
PeterN 

	
From: Ron C <r.capik@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
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Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
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From: Ron C <r.capik@verizon.net>
Organization: Say what?
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2017 23:05:42 -0500
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On 11/7/2017 11:01 PM, PeterN wrote:
> On 11/7/2017 10:55 PM, Ron C wrote:
>>
>>> On Nov 7, 2017, PeterN wrote 
> 
> Same theory.
> 
....but very different time scale. 

	
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From: PeterN <"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2017 11:27:47 -0500
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On 11/7/2017 11:05 PM, Ron C wrote:
> On 11/7/2017 11:01 PM, PeterN wrote:
>> On 11/7/2017 10:55 PM, Ron C wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Nov 7, 2017, PeterN wrote 
>>
>> Same theory.
>>
> ...but very different time scale.

Not that different. It only works on long exposures.

-- 
PeterN 

	
From: Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com>
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
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On Nov 7, 2017, PeterN wrote
(in article<ottei502p62@news4.newsguy.com>):

> On 11/7/2017 2:03 PM, Savageduck wrote:
> > On Nov 7, 2017, PeterN wrote
> > (in article<otstch02d2i@news4.newsguy.com>):
> >
> > > On 11/6/2017 4:27 PM, Savageduck wrote:
> > > > On Nov 6, 2017, PeterN wrote
> > > > (in article<otqb0n0l5s@news4.newsguy.com>):
> > > >
> > > > > On 11/6/2017 12:21 PM, Savageduck wrote:
> > > > > > On Nov 6, 2017, PeterN wrote
> > > > > > (in article<otpvla02a2u@news7.newsguy.com>):
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 11/5/2017 1:11 AM, Savageduck wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > <<Snip>>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > When it comes to screw on filters I have ND, CPF, and only one Variable
> > > > > > ND.
> > > > > > I have not been impressed with the variable ND, and it doesn’t get that
> > > > > > much use. Most recently I bought a few of the Hoya Solas IRND filters.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > <https://hoyafilterusa.com/product/hoya-solas-irnd-2/>
> > > > >
> > > > > The variable ND allows me to compose without having to attach the filter
> > > > > later.
> > > >
> > > > That was my intention. However, I found that the Vari ND is susceptible to
> > > > many of the issues that can be found with a CPF if you have the wrong
> > > > angle of incidence. The worst of these is the cross polarization phenomenon.
> > > > That is something which doesn’t happen with an ND, or ND Grad.
> > >
> > > Before I got the variable ND, I used tow polarized filters, one linear
> > > and the other my CP. It worked fine a lot of the time. But, under
> > > certain lighting conditions there was internal flare. Also, unlike good
> > > quality ND filters, polarizing filters can cause a color shift.
> > >
> > > I use a Heliopan.
> > > <https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/765517-REG/Heliopan_707790_77...
> > > io_Neutral_Density.html>
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > I only use the fixed ND when it is very bright. It is a ten stop.
> > > >
> > > > A 10 stop ND is a pretty serious ND, you should only need it if you are
> > > > trying to slow down the shutter speed for a long exposure, smooth out
> > > > water in waterfalls, or surf, or add movement to clouds, and/or if you are
> > > > trying to control DoF, especially if shooting wide open in bright light.
> > >
> > > Spot on. BTW there are other methods for smoothing water. multiple
> > > exposure works fine. You can get a nice silky effect from many
> > > waterfalls by shooting 1/5 to 1/50 of a second, depending on conditions
> > > and your taste.
> > > >
> > > > With a 10 stop ND you will not be able to focus with the filter in place,
> > > > so you should be focusing manually, and then attach the 10 ND filter. With
> > > > screw on ND filters I have 2 stop, 4 stop, and 9 stop. I cannot focus
> > > > with the 9 stop in place. I have a 10 stop Lee.
> > > >
> > > > Also if it is very bright, there are other steps you can take rather than
> > > > resorting to a 10 stop ND, consider shooting at ISO 100, or ISO 200 and
> > > > set a higher shutter speed, along with a more reasonable ND, somewhere in the
> > > > 2-6 stop area.
> > > > >
> > > > > In another post I mentioned that I was advised by B&H not to purchase an
> > > > > item. It was any of the Lee type filters. I had wanted to get a
> > > > > graduated ND filter. Watchagonnado.
> > > >
> > > > What “Lee type filters”?
> > >
> > > The sales rep made it clear that no plastic filter would give me the
> > > satisfactory results.
> >
> > As much as the sales rep was helpful, this might have been one area where
> > his knowledge was limited by personal bias, or limited knowledge of the latest
> > advances in filter tech.
>
> I think most of use form conclusions based upon our life experiences.

I suspect that was what happened in this case.
>
> > Not all the rectangular/square filters are ‘plastic’, and the quality of
> > the optical resin, not plastic filters used by the best of those systems are
> > pretty good, and those systems should not suffer a blanket condemnation
> > because of a sales ref’s opinion. They provide a solution where none
> > exists for screw on filters.
> >
> > Consider these ‘glass' filters made by Lee &  others:
> >
> > <http://www.leefilters.com/index.php/camera/proglass-nd>
> >
> > <http://www.formatt-hitech.com>
> >
> > <http://en.nisifilters.com/square-nd-filters>
> >
> > With what you do do some of your images in post, how would you tell if you
> > got a satisfactory result, or not?
>
> Whether I like them.

However, in the case of RAW, or SOOC images from any of your Nikon DSLRs, 
regardless of whether a filter is used, you seldom determine that those are 
‘satisfactory results’ for you, until you have appliedpost processing. 
That post processing of yours would in many instances negate the effect of 
any on camera filter. At least that is what we have come to expect from those 
images you have shared. So mostly they only become images you like after the 
application of your particular post processing magic.
>
> > >
> > > > There are Lee filters, and there are other square, and rectangular filter
> > > > systems from other manufacturers, all of different quality. The most
> > > > ubiquitous and least expensive are the Cokin resin filters. Perhaps it
> > > > was a case of the B&H rep understanding that the square and/or rectangular
> > > > filter systems were not suitable for your type of shooting.
> > >
> > > Yes, his suggestive was that I go back to an old wet darkroom method.
> > > Dodge the really light areas, using black cardboard or my hands. There
> > > is a lot of trial and error, but it works. After a while I got a sense
> > > of how long to dodge. And with the dynamic range of my camera,
> > > corrections can be made in post.
> >
> > When was this?
>
> A few years ago

I thought as much. That was a non-digital mind giving you advice. Sometimes 
it doesn’t translate directly.
>
> > >
> > > > BTW: You can get screw on grad filters, I have a few of those
> > >
> > > They work great, if you like every image to have a similar look, and
> > > shooting conditions are always the same. The square graduated filters
> > > can be move vertically, within limits.
> >
> > That is the reason I don’t carry them as a regular part of my kit.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I use the screw on filters for those times it is inconvenient to use the
> > > > > > Lee ND and ND Grad system. The Lee system also includes a pretty good
> > > > > > CPF. I use the Lee Seven5 system with my Fujifilm X-cameras.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > <http://www.leefilters.com/index.php/camera/system-seven5>
> > >
> > > As we determined long ago, we have very different shooting styles, and
> > > tastes.
> >
> > True. However, there are some areas where some understanding, use of, and
> > experimentation with equipment is shared.
> Hope so.

;-)

-- 

Regards,
Savageduck 

	
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
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From: PeterN <"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Stuck Filters
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2017 22:52:41 -0500
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On 11/7/2017 6:53 PM, Savageduck wrote:
> On Nov 7, 2017, PeterN wrote
> (in article<ottei502p62@news4.newsguy.com>):
> 
>> On 11/7/2017 2:03 PM, Savageduck wrote:
>>> On Nov 7, 2017, PeterN wrote
>>> (in article<otstch02d2i@news4.newsguy.com>):
>>>
>>>> On 11/6/2017 4:27 PM, Savageduck wrote:
>>>>> On Nov 6, 2017, PeterN wrote
>>>>> (in article<otqb0n0l5s@news4.newsguy.com>):
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 11/6/2017 12:21 PM, Savageduck wrote:
>>>>>>> On Nov 6, 2017, PeterN wrote
>>>>>>> (in article<otpvla02a2u@news7.newsguy.com>):
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 11/5/2017 1:11 AM, Savageduck wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <<Snip>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When it comes to screw on filters I have ND, CPF, and only one Variable
>>>>>>> ND.
>>>>>>> I have not been impressed with the variable ND, and it doesn’t get that
>>>>>>> much use. Most recently I bought a few of the Hoya Solas IRND filters.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <https://hoyafilterusa.com/product/hoya-solas-irnd-2/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The variable ND allows me to compose without having to attach the filter
>>>>>> later.
>>>>>
>>>>> That was my intention. However, I found that the Vari ND is susceptible to
>>>>> many of the issues that can be found with a CPF if you have the wrong
>>>>> angle of incidence. The worst of these is the cross polarization phenomenon.
>>>>> That is something which doesn’t happen with an ND, or ND Grad.
>>>>
>>>> Before I got the variable ND, I used tow polarized filters, one linear
>>>> and the other my CP. It worked fine a lot of the time. But, under
>>>> certain lighting conditions there was internal flare. Also, unlike good
>>>> quality ND filters, polarizing filters can cause a color shift.
>>>>
>>>> I use a Heliopan.
>>>> <https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/765517-REG/Heliopan_707790_77...
>>>> io_Neutral_Density.html>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I only use the fixed ND when it is very bright. It is a ten stop.
>>>>>
>>>>> A 10 stop ND is a pretty serious ND, you should only need it if you are
>>>>> trying to slow down the shutter speed for a long exposure, smooth out
>>>>> water in waterfalls, or surf, or add movement to clouds, and/or if you are
>>>>> trying to control DoF, especially if shooting wide open in bright light.
>>>>
>>>> Spot on. BTW there are other methods for smoothing water. multiple
>>>> exposure works fine. You can get a nice silky effect from many
>>>> waterfalls by shooting 1/5 to 1/50 of a second, depending on conditions
>>>> and your taste.
>>>>>
>>>>> With a 10 stop ND you will not be able to focus with the filter in place,
>>>>> so you should be focusing manually, and then attach the 10 ND filter. With
>>>>> screw on ND filters I have 2 stop, 4 stop, and 9 stop. I cannot focus
>>>>> with the 9 stop in place. I have a 10 stop Lee.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also if it is very bright, there are other steps you can take rather than
>>>>> resorting to a 10 stop ND, consider shooting at ISO 100, or ISO 200 and
>>>>> set a higher shutter speed, along with a more reasonable ND, somewhere in the
>>>>> 2-6 stop area.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In another post I mentioned that I was advised by B&H not to purchase an
>>>>>> item. It was any of the Lee type filters. I had wanted to get a
>>>>>> graduated ND filter. Watchagonnado.
>>>>>
>>>>> What “Lee type filters”?
>>>>
>>>> The sales rep made it clear that no plastic filter would give me the
>>>> satisfactory results.
>>>
>>> As much as the sales rep was helpful, this might have been one area where
>>> his knowledge was limited by personal bias, or limited knowledge of the latest
>>> advances in filter tech.
>>
>> I think most of use form conclusions based upon our life experiences.
> 
> I suspect that was what happened in this case.
>>
>>> Not all the rectangular/square filters are ‘plastic’, and the quality of
>>> the optical resin, not plastic filters used by the best of those systems are
>>> pretty good, and those systems should not suffer a blanket condemnation
>>> because of a sales ref’s opinion. They provide a solution where none
>>> exists for screw on filters.
>>>
>>> Consider these ‘glass' filters made by Lee &  others:
>>>
>>> <http://www.leefilters.com/index.php/camera/proglass-nd>
>>>
>>> <http://www.formatt-hitech.com>
>>>
>>> <http://en.nisifilters.com/square-nd-filters>
>>>
>>> With what you do do some of your images in post, how would you tell if you
>>> got a satisfactory result, or not?
>>
>> Whether I like them.
> 
> However, in the case of RAW, or SOOC images from any of your Nikon DSLRs,
> regardless of whether a filter is used, you seldom determine that those are
> ‘satisfactory results’ for you, until you have appliedpost processing.
> That post processing of yours would in many instances negate the effect of
> any on camera filter. At least that is what we have come to expect from those
> images you have shared. So mostly they only become images you like after the
> application of your particular post processing magic.
>>


True. But in camera dodging, cuts down on the exposure of of bright 
areas, and can prevent the highlights from being burned out.


>>>>
>>>>> There are Lee filters, and there are other square, and rectangular filter
>>>>> systems from other manufacturers, all of different quality. The most
>>>>> ubiquitous and least expensive are the Cokin resin filters. Perhaps it
>>>>> was a case of the B&H rep understanding that the square and/or rectangular
>>>>> filter systems were not suitable for your type of shooting.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, his suggestive was that I go back to an old wet darkroom method.
>>>> Dodge the really light areas, using black cardboard or my hands. There
>>>> is a lot of trial and error, but it works. After a while I got a sense
>>>> of how long to dodge. And with the dynamic range of my camera,
>>>> corrections can be made in post.
>>>
>>> When was this?
>>
>> A few years ago
> 
> I thought as much. That was a non-digital mind giving you advice. Sometimes
> it doesn’t translate directly.
>>
>>>>
>>>>> BTW: You can get screw on grad filters, I have a few of those
>>>>
>>>> They work great, if you like every image to have a similar look, and
>>>> shooting conditions are always the same. The square graduated filters
>>>> can be move vertically, within limits.
>>>
>>> That is the reason I don’t carry them as a regular part of my kit.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I use the screw on filters for those times it is inconvenient to use the
>>>>>>> Lee ND and ND Grad system. The Lee system also includes a pretty good
>>>>>>> CPF. I use the Lee Seven5 system with my Fujifilm X-cameras.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <http://www.leefilters.com/index.php/camera/system-seven5>
>>>>
>>>> As we determined long ago, we have very different shooting styles, and
>>>> tastes.
>>>
>>> True. However, there are some areas where some understanding, use of, and
>>> experimentation with equipment is shared.
>> Hope so.
> 
> ;-)
> 


-- 
PeterN