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From: Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com>
Subject: Ripe Apples
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From: Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com>
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Subject: Ripe Apples
Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2017 18:29:21 -0500
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The newspaper in a small town near here has these two Macs on display
in the lobby.  The desktop unit looks like it could be used by the
"Jetsons".


https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ss03wkzk8so81vo/AABHEdQNK855pO51663dqrDaa...

-- 
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida 

	
From: Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com>
Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
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On Nov 6, 2017, Tony Cooper wrote
(in article<1qr10d1nttcgmsir625081u794r4l2reau@4ax.com>):

>
> The newspaper in a small town near here has these two Macs on display
> in the lobby. The desktop unit looks like it could be used by the
> "Jetsons".
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ss03wkzk8so81vo/AABHEdQNK855pO51663dqrDaa...

Nothing too strange for anybody with Mac knowledge. I actually have one of 
those ‘goose-neck’ G4 iMacs from 2002. It will still run CS2, the 
original LR, and some other software which has faded into the past.

-- 

Regards,
Savageduck 

	
From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
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From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2017 19:36:35 -0500
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In article<1qr10d1nttcgmsir625081u794r4l2reau@4ax.com>, Tony Cooper<tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:

> The newspaper in a small town near here has these two Macs on display
> in the lobby.  The desktop unit looks like it could be used by the
> "Jetsons".
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ss03wkzk8so81vo/AABHEdQNK855pO51663dqrDaa...

that was the 'lamp' imac g4, whose display could swivel/raise into
nearly any position, with its arm doubling as a handle.

the ibook g3 looks very grungy, not something one would expect from a
unit put on display.

the setup was obviously done by a pc user because the mouse is plugged
into the ibook, which already has a built-in trackpad, rather than into
the imac, which is not only positioned sideways, but now has no
pointing device. 

both are from about 15 years ago. 

	
From: Davoud <star@sky.net>
Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
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From: Davoud <star@sky.net>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2017 19:44:36 -0500
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Tony Cooper:
> The newspaper in a small town near here has these two Macs on display
> in the lobby.  The desktop unit looks like it could be used by the
> "Jetsons".
> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ss03wkzk8so81vo/AABHEdQNK855pO51663dqrDaa...

Yeah, Mac users love their vintage machines. I have an SE/30 from 1989.
It was doing pro-level WYSIWYG DTP while DOS users were staring at the
C:/ prompt and trying to configure autoexec.bat.

-- 
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm 

	
Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
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From: PeterN <"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2017 22:30:27 -0500
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On 11/6/2017 7:44 PM, Davoud wrote:
> Tony Cooper:
>> The newspaper in a small town near here has these two Macs on display
>> in the lobby.  The desktop unit looks like it could be used by the
>> "Jetsons".
>> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ss03wkzk8so81vo/AABHEdQNK855pO51663dqrDaa...
> 
> Yeah, Mac users love their vintage machines. I have an SE/30 from 1989.
> It was doing pro-level WYSIWYG DTP while DOS users were staring at the
> C:/ prompt and trying to configure autoexec.bat.
> 

I don't miss my II. i used it only for Visicalc, and printed the results 
on an Epson dot matrix printer. IIRC I paid about $4,200 for the Apple, 
Visicalc and the printer. To say prices have dropped is an understatement.


-- 
PeterN 

	
Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
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From: Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca>
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2017 18:54:53 -0500
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On 2017-11-06 19:44, Davoud wrote:
> Tony Cooper:
>> The newspaper in a small town near here has these two Macs on
>> display in the lobby.  The desktop unit looks like it could be used
>> by the "Jetsons". 
>> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ss03wkzk8so81vo/AABHEdQNK855pO51663dqrDaa...
>
>> 
> Yeah, Mac users love their vintage machines. I have an SE/30 from
> 1989. It was doing pro-level WYSIWYG DTP while DOS users were staring
> at the C:/ prompt and trying to configure autoexec.bat.

Funny - in 1989 I was using PC's for real time recording of flight data 
from several sensors, displaying the current data and computing various 
derivative products.  Also used PC's to host signal processors to 
synthesize complex waveforms to test various systems.  The PC had to 
coordinate all this at 25 frames per second across several processors. 
(The PC would compute the "terms" of the next frame and interrupt the 
SP's at the right time and pass the data to them to do the heavy lifting).

I was a very early Windows user at 1.0, 2.0 and 3.0.  It started to be 
"right" when 3.1 came out.  Far from perfect, but hosted a decent (and 
an atrocious) WYSIWYG word processor.  (Sometimes "What You So Intensely 
Wished You'd Gotten in the 2nd case).  Spreadsheets like 1-2-3 under Win 
3.1 were fine.

Nothing wrong with DOS, IMO.  (Win 1 thru 3 were "DOS" products IMO). 

	
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From: PeterN <"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net>
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Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
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On 11/8/2017 6:54 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2017-11-06 19:44, Davoud wrote:
>> Tony Cooper:
>>> The newspaper in a small town near here has these two Macs on
>>> display in the lobby.  The desktop unit looks like it could be used
>>> by the "Jetsons". 
>>> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ss03wkzk8so81vo/AABHEdQNK855pO51663dqrDaa... 
>>>
>>
>>>
>> Yeah, Mac users love their vintage machines. I have an SE/30 from
>> 1989. It was doing pro-level WYSIWYG DTP while DOS users were staring
>> at the C:/ prompt and trying to configure autoexec.bat.
> 
> Funny - in 1989 I was using PC's for real time recording of flight data 
> from several sensors, displaying the current data and computing various 
> derivative products.  Also used PC's to host signal processors to 
> synthesize complex waveforms to test various systems.  The PC had to 
> coordinate all this at 25 frames per second across several processors. 
> (The PC would compute the "terms" of the next frame and interrupt the 
> SP's at the right time and pass the data to them to do the heavy lifting).
> 
> I was a very early Windows user at 1.0, 2.0 and 3.0.  It started to be 
> "right" when 3.1 came out.  Far from perfect, but hosted a decent (and 
> an atrocious) WYSIWYG word processor.  (Sometimes "What You So Intensely 
> Wished You'd Gotten in the 2nd case).  Spreadsheets like 1-2-3 under Win 
> 3.1 were fine.

Yes they were. And then they came out with Symphony, that was intended 
to combine spreadsheets, word processing and a database. They worked 
fine for simple applications, but once you got into complex uses it did 
none of them well.


> 
> Nothing wrong with DOS, IMO.  (Win 1 thru 3 were "DOS" products IMO).


-- 
PeterN 

	
From: android <here@there.was>
Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
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Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
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In article<1qr10d1nttcgmsir625081u794r4l2reau@4ax.com>,
 Tony Cooper<tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:

> The newspaper in a small town near here has these two Macs on display
> in the lobby.  The desktop unit looks like it could be used by the
> "Jetsons".
> 
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ss03wkzk8so81vo/AABHEdQNK855pO51663dqrDaa...

The iLamp was a cutie...
-- 
teleportation kills 

	
From: Whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
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On Monday, 6 November 2017 23:29:31 UTC, Tony Cooper  wrote:
> The newspaper in a small town near here has these two Macs on display
> in the lobby.  The desktop unit looks like it could be used by the
> "Jetsons".
> 
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ss03wkzk8so81vo/AABHEdQNK855pO51663dqrDaa...
> 

Ah yes the iLamp I wasn't a fan myself but why haven't they got a 15 year-old PC on display ;-) 

	
From: Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com>
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Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2017 09:21:57 -0500
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On Tue, 7 Nov 2017 02:02:24 -0800 (PST), Whisky-dave<whisky.dave@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Monday, 6 November 2017 23:29:31 UTC, Tony Cooper  wrote:
>> The newspaper in a small town near here has these two Macs on display
>> in the lobby.  The desktop unit looks like it could be used by the
>> "Jetsons".
>> 
>> 
>> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ss03wkzk8so81vo/AABHEdQNK855pO51663dqrDaa...
>> 
>
>Ah yes the iLamp I wasn't a fan myself but why haven't they got a 15 year-old PC on display ;-)

It's not a museum.  It's a newspaper office, and the units on display
are the units that were in use by the staff.  
-- 
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida 

	
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In article<m7g30dl1v2bqtkg25fqiis9pbpek1jao8g@4ax.com>,
 Tony Cooper<tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 7 Nov 2017 02:02:24 -0800 (PST), Whisky-dave
><whisky.dave@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> >On Monday, 6 November 2017 23:29:31 UTC, Tony Cooper  wrote:
> >> The newspaper in a small town near here has these two Macs on display
> >> in the lobby.  The desktop unit looks like it could be used by the
> >> "Jetsons".
> >> 
> >> 
> >> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ss03wkzk8so81vo/AABHEdQNK855pO51663dqrDaa...
> >> 
> >
> >Ah yes the iLamp I wasn't a fan myself but why haven't they got a 15 
> >year-old PC on display ;-)
> 
> It's not a museum.  It's a newspaper office, and the units on display
> are the units that were in use by the staff.

The iLamp would run OSX Leopard 2007 but nothing more modern since it  
sported a Motorola PPC processor... Soo... What high tech Floridian news 
org uses stuff like that today???

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMac_G4>
-- 
teleportation kills 

	
From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
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From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
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Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2017 11:16:15 -0500
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In article<here-DC612B.17123507112017@news.individual.net>, android<here@there.was> wrote:

> > >Ah yes the iLamp I wasn't a fan myself but why haven't they got a 15 
> > >year-old PC on display ;-)
> > 
> > It's not a museum.  It's a newspaper office, and the units on display
> > are the units that were in use by the staff.
> 
> The iLamp would run OSX Leopard 2007 but nothing more modern since it  
> sported a Motorola PPC processor... Soo... What high tech Floridian news 
> org uses stuff like that today???

*were* in use. not currently in use. 

	
From: Whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
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Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
From: Whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com>
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On Tuesday, 7 November 2017 16:12:44 UTC, android  wrote:
> In article<m7g30dl1v2bqtkg25fqiis9pbpek1jao8g@4ax.com>,
>  Tony Cooper<tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, 7 Nov 2017 02:02:24 -0800 (PST), Whisky-dave
> ><whisky.dave@gmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> > >On Monday, 6 November 2017 23:29:31 UTC, Tony Cooper  wrote:
> > >> The newspaper in a small town near here has these two Macs on display
> > >> in the lobby.  The desktop unit looks like it could be used by the
> > >> "Jetsons".
> > >> 
> > >> 
> > >> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ss03wkzk8so81vo/AABHEdQNK855pO51663dqrDaa...
> > >> 
> > >
> > >Ah yes the iLamp I wasn't a fan myself but why haven't they got a 15 
> > >year-old PC on display ;-)
> > 
> > It's not a museum.  It's a newspaper office, and the units on display
> > are the units that were in use by the staff.
> 
> The iLamp would run OSX Leopard 2007 but nothing more modern since it  
> sported a Motorola PPC processor... Soo... What high tech Floridian news 
> org uses stuff like that today???
> 
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMac_G4>

you can check email even write email and shakespeare managed to write some pretty good stuff with
just a quill pen and paper, but perhaps he really should have used a spell checker ;-)

It;s unlikely you'd find a PC of that ear still being used for anything other than a door stop to
keep a fire exit open. 

	
From: Davoud <star@sky.net>
Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
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From: Davoud <star@sky.net>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2017 12:33:45 -0500
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Tony Cooper:
> It's not a museum.  It's a newspaper office, and the units on display
> are the units that were in use by the staff.

Vintage Macs, no longer in use, on display: it's a museum.

-- 
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm 

	
From: Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
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From: Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2017 12:54:42 -0500
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On Tue, 07 Nov 2017 12:33:45 -0500, Davoud<star@sky.net> wrote:

>Tony Cooper:
>> It's not a museum.  It's a newspaper office, and the units on display
>> are the units that were in use by the staff.
>
>Vintage Macs, no longer in use, on display: it's a museum.

Very limited, then.  Two of the iMacs (I photographed just one of
them), the iBook, one mouse, and a few manual typewriters.  

Dunno what they use now.  No one visible from the lobby was using a
device of any sort except a mobile phone.  
-- 
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida 

	
Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
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From: PeterN <"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2017 22:41:56 -0500
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On 11/7/2017 9:21 AM, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Tue, 7 Nov 2017 02:02:24 -0800 (PST), Whisky-dave
><whisky.dave@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Monday, 6 November 2017 23:29:31 UTC, Tony Cooper  wrote:
>>> The newspaper in a small town near here has these two Macs on display
>>> in the lobby.  The desktop unit looks like it could be used by the
>>> "Jetsons".
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ss03wkzk8so81vo/AABHEdQNK855pO51663dqrDaa...
>>>
>>
>> Ah yes the iLamp I wasn't a fan myself but why haven't they got a 15 year-old PC on display ;-)
> 
> It's not a museum.  It's a newspaper office, and the units on display
> are the units that were in use by the staff.
> 

i had the privilege of visiting Armand Hammer's office that was heavily 
used, and also a fantastic museum, while it was still used as an office. 
You got there by invitation only, while Armand Hammer was still the 
president of Occidental Petroleum. I doubt if he consulted his Da Vinci 
sketches for business purposes.

-- 
PeterN 

	
From: Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
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Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2017 23:10:11 -0500
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On Tue, 7 Nov 2017 22:41:56 -0500, PeterN
<"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net> wrote:

>On 11/7/2017 9:21 AM, Tony Cooper wrote:
>> On Tue, 7 Nov 2017 02:02:24 -0800 (PST), Whisky-dave
>><whisky.dave@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> On Monday, 6 November 2017 23:29:31 UTC, Tony Cooper  wrote:
>>>> The newspaper in a small town near here has these two Macs on display
>>>> in the lobby.  The desktop unit looks like it could be used by the
>>>> "Jetsons".
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ss03wkzk8so81vo/AABHEdQNK855pO51663dqrDaa...
>>>>
>>>
>>> Ah yes the iLamp I wasn't a fan myself but why haven't they got a 15 year-old PC on display ;-)
>> 
>> It's not a museum.  It's a newspaper office, and the units on display
>> are the units that were in use by the staff.
>> 
>
>i had the privilege of visiting Armand Hammer's office that was heavily 
>used, and also a fantastic museum, while it was still used as an office. 
>You got there by invitation only, while Armand Hammer was still the 
>president of Occidental Petroleum. I doubt if he consulted his Da Vinci 
>sketches for business purposes.

I can top that.  When my son was 13, I took him with me on a business
trip to NYC.  An employee of mine went to school with one of the _Mad
Magazine_ artists, so we had an invitation to visit the offices.

Bill Gaines was extremely gracious and we sat in his office for about
half an hour while he recounted anecdotes about EC Comics and how Mad
got started.  Bill was a collector of miniature dirigibles and
airships.  He had a couple of dozen hanging from the ceiling of his
office.

The only disappointing thing about the visit was that none of the
artists or writers worked out of the Madison Avenue office, so we
didn't get to meet any of them.  They all worked out of their home or
their own office and couriered their material in.


-- 
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida 

	
Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
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From: PeterN <"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2017 11:30:08 -0500
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On 11/7/2017 11:10 PM, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Tue, 7 Nov 2017 22:41:56 -0500, PeterN
> <"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net> wrote:
> 
>> On 11/7/2017 9:21 AM, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>> On Tue, 7 Nov 2017 02:02:24 -0800 (PST), Whisky-dave
>>><whisky.dave@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Monday, 6 November 2017 23:29:31 UTC, Tony Cooper  wrote:
>>>>> The newspaper in a small town near here has these two Macs on display
>>>>> in the lobby.  The desktop unit looks like it could be used by the
>>>>> "Jetsons".
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ss03wkzk8so81vo/AABHEdQNK855pO51663dqrDaa...
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ah yes the iLamp I wasn't a fan myself but why haven't they got a 15 year-old PC on display ;-)
>>>
>>> It's not a museum.  It's a newspaper office, and the units on display
>>> are the units that were in use by the staff.
>>>
>>
>> i had the privilege of visiting Armand Hammer's office that was heavily
>> used, and also a fantastic museum, while it was still used as an office.
>> You got there by invitation only, while Armand Hammer was still the
>> president of Occidental Petroleum. I doubt if he consulted his Da Vinci
>> sketches for business purposes.
> 
> I can top that.  When my son was 13, I took him with me on a business
> trip to NYC.  An employee of mine went to school with one of the _Mad
> Magazine_ artists, so we had an invitation to visit the offices.
> 
> Bill Gaines was extremely gracious and we sat in his office for about
> half an hour while he recounted anecdotes about EC Comics and how Mad
> got started.  Bill was a collector of miniature dirigibles and
> airships.  He had a couple of dozen hanging from the ceiling of his
> office.
> 
> The only disappointing thing about the visit was that none of the
> artists or writers worked out of the Madison Avenue office, so we
> didn't get to meet any of them.  They all worked out of their home or
> their own office and couriered their material in.
> 
> 

I didn't get to meet Da Vinci.

-- 
PeterN 

	
From: Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
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From: Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
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On Tue, 7 Nov 2017 02:02:24 -0800 (PST), Whisky-dave<whisky.dave@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Monday, 6 November 2017 23:29:31 UTC, Tony Cooper  wrote:
>> The newspaper in a small town near here has these two Macs on display
>> in the lobby.  The desktop unit looks like it could be used by the
>> "Jetsons".
>> 
>> 
>> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ss03wkzk8so81vo/AABHEdQNK855pO51663dqrDaa...
>> 
>
>Ah yes the iLamp I wasn't a fan myself but why haven't they got a 15 year-old PC on display ;-)

One like this?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/xf9tygq4pcuv8uy/1LR-7502416.jpg?dl=0

I bought it in 2002 and sold it early this year and as far as I know
it's still going.
-- 

Regards,

Eric Stevens 

	
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Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
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Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
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On Tuesday, 7 November 2017 20:04:56 UTC, Eric Stevens  wrote:
> On Tue, 7 Nov 2017 02:02:24 -0800 (PST), Whisky-dave
><whisky.dave@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> >On Monday, 6 November 2017 23:29:31 UTC, Tony Cooper  wrote:
> >> The newspaper in a small town near here has these two Macs on display
> >> in the lobby.  The desktop unit looks like it could be used by the
> >> "Jetsons".
> >> 
> >> 
> >> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ss03wkzk8so81vo/AABHEdQNK855pO51663dqrDaa...
> >> 
> >
> >Ah yes the iLamp I wasn't a fan myself but why haven't they got a 15 year-old PC on display ;-)
> 
> One like this?
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/xf9tygq4pcuv8uy/1LR-7502416.jpg?dl=0
> 
> I bought it in 2002 and sold it early this year and as far as I know
> it's still going.

But hardly on display, because compared to even the iLamp (which I think was the worse of the mac
designs) it's an ugly SoB like the majority of PCs, because they are designed for cheapness and it
shows. 

	
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Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
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Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
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On Wed, 8 Nov 2017 03:01:05 -0800 (PST), Whisky-dave<whisky.dave@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, 7 November 2017 20:04:56 UTC, Eric Stevens  wrote:
>> On Tue, 7 Nov 2017 02:02:24 -0800 (PST), Whisky-dave
>><whisky.dave@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> >On Monday, 6 November 2017 23:29:31 UTC, Tony Cooper  wrote:
>> >> The newspaper in a small town near here has these two Macs on display
>> >> in the lobby.  The desktop unit looks like it could be used by the
>> >> "Jetsons".
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> >> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ss03wkzk8so81vo/AABHEdQNK855pO51663dqrDaa...
>> >> 
>> >
>> >Ah yes the iLamp I wasn't a fan myself but why haven't they got a 15 year-old PC on display ;-)
>> 
>> One like this?
>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/xf9tygq4pcuv8uy/1LR-7502416.jpg?dl=0
>> 
>> I bought it in 2002 and sold it early this year and as far as I know
>> it's still going.
>
>But hardly on display, because compared to even the iLamp (which I think was the worse of the mac
designs) it's an ugly SoB like the majority of PCs, because they are designed for cheapness and it
shows.
>
It was never on display becaujse most computers never are. It might be
an ugly SoB but that was largely because it was designed to hold a
wide variety of hardware which could be installed or replaced without
the use of any tools whatsoever. It was a very cost effective machine.
-- 

Regards,

Eric Stevens 

	
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Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
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In article<ter60dpcvombdurjdsakhbrhrbq9nj2qnp@4ax.com>, Eric Stevens<eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote:

>  It might be
> an ugly SoB but that was largely because it was designed to hold a
> wide variety of hardware which could be installed or replaced without
> the use of any tools whatsoever.

it need not be ugly to do that. 

	
From: Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz>
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From: Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
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On Wed, 08 Nov 2017 22:49:27 -0500, nospam<nospam@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

>In article<ter60dpcvombdurjdsakhbrhrbq9nj2qnp@4ax.com>, Eric Stevens
><eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote:
>
>>  It might be
>> an ugly SoB but that was largely because it was designed to hold a
>> wide variety of hardware which could be installed or replaced without
>> the use of any tools whatsoever.
>
>it need not be ugly to do that.

It was Whisky-dave who said it was ugly. I don't think it was ugly but
it was what it was and it was extremely utilitarian. I could swap
drives in it in a fraction of the time it took me to do the same task
in the Dell which followed it.
-- 

Regards,

Eric Stevens 

	
From: Whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
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Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
From: Whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com>
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On Thursday, 9 November 2017 07:17:33 UTC, Eric Stevens  wrote:
> On Wed, 08 Nov 2017 22:49:27 -0500, nospam<nospam@nospam.invalid>
> wrote:
> 
> >In article<ter60dpcvombdurjdsakhbrhrbq9nj2qnp@4ax.com>, Eric Stevens
> ><eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote:
> >
> >>  It might be
> >> an ugly SoB but that was largely because it was designed to hold a
> >> wide variety of hardware which could be installed or replaced without
> >> the use of any tools whatsoever.
> >
> >it need not be ugly to do that.
> 
> It was Whisky-dave who said it was ugly. I don't think it was ugly but
> it was what it was and it was extremely utilitarian.

There was the mac quadra 950, it had laods of bays 2 for CD drives two SCSI drives for even easir
swappng you didn't even have to open the case.

>  I could swap
> drives in it in a fraction of the time it took me to do the same task
> in the Dell which followed it.

and I bet I've got more storage space on my iphone than you could put in that PC. 

	
From: Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
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From: Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
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On Thu, 9 Nov 2017 03:02:09 -0800 (PST), Whisky-dave<whisky.dave@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, 9 November 2017 07:17:33 UTC, Eric Stevens  wrote:
>> On Wed, 08 Nov 2017 22:49:27 -0500, nospam<nospam@nospam.invalid>
>> wrote:
>> 
>> >In article<ter60dpcvombdurjdsakhbrhrbq9nj2qnp@4ax.com>, Eric Stevens
>> ><eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote:
>> >
>> >>  It might be
>> >> an ugly SoB but that was largely because it was designed to hold a
>> >> wide variety of hardware which could be installed or replaced without
>> >> the use of any tools whatsoever.
>> >
>> >it need not be ugly to do that.
>> 
>> It was Whisky-dave who said it was ugly. I don't think it was ugly but
>> it was what it was and it was extremely utilitarian.
>
>There was the mac quadra 950, it had laods of bays 2 for CD drives two SCSI drives for even easir
swappng you didn't even have to open the case.

So what? Its styling was based on sweeping lines of a tower block in a
prison.
>
>>  I could swap
>> drives in it in a fraction of the time it took me to do the same task
>> in the Dell which followed it.
>
>and I bet I've got more storage space on my iphone than you could put in that PC.

But my car weighs more than your iPhone.
-- 

Regards,

Eric Stevens 

	
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Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
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In article<quv70d5tm13ls076ede48c748nrt7oo7g9@4ax.com>, Eric Stevens<eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote:

> >>  It might be
> >> an ugly SoB but that was largely because it was designed to hold a
> >> wide variety of hardware which could be installed or replaced without
> >> the use of any tools whatsoever.
> >
> >it need not be ugly to do that.
> 
> It was Whisky-dave who said it was ugly. 

he's right.

> I don't think it was ugly but
> it was what it was and it was extremely utilitarian. 

in other words, boring.

> I could swap
> drives in it in a fraction of the time it took me to do the same task
> in the Dell which followed it.

if all you do is open it and swap drives, then that's the computer to
get.

meanwhile, the rest of the world wants to do actual work, not open up
their computer and swap parts all day long. 

	
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On 2017-11-09 07:49, nospam wrote:

> 
> meanwhile, the rest of the world wants to do actual work, not open
> up their computer and swap parts all day long.

The usual asshat reply from nospam.   People don't "swap parts all day 
long".  They do it when needed from time to time.

When a drive is failing, failed or not large enough it is trivial to 
remove and replace.  About 10 minutes with most desktops.

On a current iMac it can easily take an hour or more.  Tedious.  And no 
reason to make it so difficult other than the Apple aesthetic. 

	
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Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
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On Thursday, 9 November 2017 13:44:50 UTC, Alan Browne  wrote:
> On 2017-11-09 07:49, nospam wrote:
> 
> > 
> > meanwhile, the rest of the world wants to do actual work, not open
> > up their computer and swap parts all day long.
> 
> The usual asshat reply from nospam.   People don't "swap parts all day 
> long".  They do it when needed from time to time.
> 
> When a drive is failing, failed or not large enough it is trivial to 
> remove and replace.  About 10 minutes with most desktops.

And most people don;t have desktops and even if they do an external drive can be plugged in and used
in far less than 10 mins and without the use of any tools.

> 
> On a current iMac it can easily take an hour or more.  Tedious.  And no 
> reason to make it so difficult other than the Apple aesthetic.

Which lots of people prefer otherwise they'd be buying PC desktops wouldn't they. 

	
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On 2017-11-09 08:51, Whisky-dave wrote:
> On Thursday, 9 November 2017 13:44:50 UTC, Alan Browne  wrote:
>> On 2017-11-09 07:49, nospam wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> meanwhile, the rest of the world wants to do actual work, not
>>> open up their computer and swap parts all day long.
>> 
>> The usual asshat reply from nospam.   People don't "swap parts all
>> day long".  They do it when needed from time to time.
>> 
>> When a drive is failing, failed or not large enough it is trivial
>> to remove and replace.  About 10 minutes with most desktops.
> 
> And most people don;t have desktops and even if they do an external
> drive can be plugged in and used in far less than 10 mins and without
> the use of any tools.

Sub optimal performance, however.  Although with newer serial 
interfaces, less so.

IAC I suspect my next Mac will be 100% SSD.

> 
>> 
>> On a current iMac it can easily take an hour or more.  Tedious.
>> And no reason to make it so difficult other than the Apple
>> aesthetic.
> 
> Which lots of people prefer otherwise they'd be buying PC desktops
> wouldn't they.

I'm on my 2nd iMac (and have various Macbooks/Airs here and at work). 
I replaced the HD in less than an hour on the first one.  Under 
warranty.  It was too much hassle to go through the Apple repair 
service.  (evaluation, estimate, repair: 5 - 10 business days.  Screw that).

2nd iMac I'd budget 2 hours and I'd have iFixIt send me the gasket kit 
first.

When I had PC's (including laptops) it took 10 - 15 minutes.  Tops.  Did 
that many times over the years.

The fact that my iMac has a very thin bezel and looks nifty actually 
contributes nothing to what it does for me as a computer.  Since they 
located the HD near the back shell it would have been trivial to have a 
port there that could be opened.  But they don't.  (They do for RAM).

That said I don't see ever going back to a Windows PC.  Linux as a 
desktop environment is a disaster.

I could rebel and load Mac OS on a high end PC, but that brings a 
maintenance "load" with it best left by the side of the road. 

	
From: Whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
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Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
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On Thursday, 9 November 2017 20:53:34 UTC, Alan Browne  wrote:
> On 2017-11-09 08:51, Whisky-dave wrote:
> > On Thursday, 9 November 2017 13:44:50 UTC, Alan Browne  wrote:
> >> On 2017-11-09 07:49, nospam wrote:
> >> 
> >>> 
> >>> meanwhile, the rest of the world wants to do actual work, not
> >>> open up their computer and swap parts all day long.
> >> 
> >> The usual asshat reply from nospam.   People don't "swap parts all
> >> day long".  They do it when needed from time to time.
> >> 
> >> When a drive is failing, failed or not large enough it is trivial
> >> to remove and replace.  About 10 minutes with most desktops.
> > 
> > And most people don;t have desktops and even if they do an external
> > drive can be plugged in and used in far less than 10 mins and without
> > the use of any tools.
> 
> Sub optimal performance, however.  Although with newer serial 
> interfaces, less so.

I think my USB 3 is faster than IDE.
And thinderbolt even faster.

> 
> IAC I suspect my next Mac will be 100% SSD.

My present one is because I wasn't too keen on fusion drives options.

 
> >> On a current iMac it can easily take an hour or more.  Tedious.
> >> And no reason to make it so difficult other than the Apple
> >> aesthetic.
> > 
> > Which lots of people prefer otherwise they'd be buying PC desktops
> > wouldn't they.
> 
> I'm on my 2nd iMac (and have various Macbooks/Airs here and at work). 
> I replaced the HD in less than an hour on the first one.  Under 
> warranty.  It was too much hassle to go through the Apple repair 
> service.  (evaluation, estimate, repair: 5 - 10 business days.  Screw that).
 
That would be annoying but I doubt MS would be any quicker and wouldn't do it anyway not sure how
long Dell or any other PC repairer would take.


> 2nd iMac I'd budget 2 hours and I'd have iFixIt send me the gasket kit 
> first.
> 
> When I had PC's (including laptops) it took 10 - 15 minutes.  Tops.  Did 
> that many times over the years.

yes we have people employed to fix PC partly because we have more but mostly because PCs go wrong
and need parts far more regulary.
In the end you get what you pay for.
 More people go to mcdonalds than michiline style resturants and that IS NOT because of stupidity of
either or because mcdonalds does the best food.
Some eat to live while others live to eat.
Some will drive a car others will get driven.


 
> The fact that my iMac has a very thin bezel and looks nifty actually 
> contributes nothing to what it does for me as a computer.

Well a painting on the wall does nothing for me, niether do photos on the wall.
Having a car that can do 0-60 in 2.2 seconds would do little in getting me to work earlier than a
car with a 0-60 of 12 seconds.


  Since they 
> located the HD near the back shell it would have been trivial to have a 
> port there that could be opened.  But they don't.  (They do for RAM).

Why can;t PCs have a port liem you say, why do you have to have a scredriver to take the side panels
off, then take the 4 screws out supporting the drive ?
if it's such a great idea how comes yuo have to open up PCs ?

 
> That said I don't see ever going back to a Windows PC.  Linux as a 
> desktop environment is a disaster.

Yes sometimes you just get ised top things working ;-)

It does seem that of those that use unix and say how good it is spend most of their time keeping it
running adn trying to optimise it to do one or two tasks.


> I could rebel and load Mac OS on a high end PC, but that brings a 
> maintenance "load" with it best left by the side of the road.

Yep but I can easily run windows on a Mac and in most cases it runs better on a mac than a PC, if
yuo get a windows virus just delete the disc image, copy the previous one back and restart no
reinstallation necessary.


I wonder why a Mac was used to create the startup sound of a PC.

http://www.electricpig.co.uk/2011/11/23/brian-eno-spills-windows-st... 

	
From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
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Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
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In article<D6KdneGjAP9axpnHnZ2dnUU7-KPNnZ2d@giganews.com>, Alan Browne<alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:

> > meanwhile, the rest of the world wants to do actual work, not open
> > up their computer and swap parts all day long.
> 
> The usual asshat reply from nospam.   People don't "swap parts all day 
> long".  They do it when needed from time to time.

actually, they don't. the vast majority of users have someone else
repair their computer, just as they do with their cars, tvs and other
products.

> When a drive is failing, failed or not large enough it is trivial to 
> remove and replace.  About 10 minutes with most desktops.

only if someone has the skills and tools.

while readers of usenet might, the general public is not going to open
up a computer to swap a hard drive.

> On a current iMac it can easily take an hour or more.  Tedious.  And no 
> reason to make it so difficult other than the Apple aesthetic.

the reason is that opening a computer is rarely done, if ever, and
optimizing for that scenario stupid.

it makes a lot more sense to optimize a computer for every day use,
versus something that *might* happen.

some cars have the battery in the wheel well, requiring a wheel to be
removed just to swap the battery. since car batteries usually last 5-10
years, that's a very good design decision. 

	
Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
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From: PeterN <"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2017 13:08:47 -0500
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On 11/9/2017 9:03 AM, nospam wrote:
> In article<D6KdneGjAP9axpnHnZ2dnUU7-KPNnZ2d@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
><alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:
> 
>>> meanwhile, the rest of the world wants to do actual work, not open
>>> up their computer and swap parts all day long.
>>
>> The usual asshat reply from nospam.   People don't "swap parts all day
>> long".  They do it when needed from time to time.
> 
> actually, they don't. the vast majority of users have someone else
> repair their computer, just as they do with their cars, tvs and other
> products.
> 
>> When a drive is failing, failed or not large enough it is trivial to
>> remove and replace.  About 10 minutes with most desktops.
> 
> only if someone has the skills and tools.

Most people I know have the necessary screwdrivers. If not, they are 
available at their local hardware store, for very little money. It is 
trivial to open the box and add a drive, or memory. I have someone else 
do it, because of a physical limitation. When I tell a repair guy what I 
want, and stand there and watch, the time to repair is short, and the 
price is very reasonable.

> 
> while readers of usenet might, the general public is not going to open
> up a computer to swap a hard drive.




> 
>> On a current iMac it can easily take an hour or more.  Tedious.  And no
>> reason to make it so difficult other than the Apple aesthetic.
> 
> the reason is that opening a computer is rarely done, if ever, and
> optimizing for that scenario stupid.

By that reasoning, all PC box manufacturers and assemblers, including HP 
and Dell are run by stupid people.

> 
> it makes a lot more sense to optimize a computer for every day use,
> versus something that *might* happen.
> 
> some cars have the battery in the wheel well, requiring a wheel to be
> removed just to swap the battery. since car batteries usually last 5-10
> years, that's a very good design decision.
> 
Ah! more vague advice from the world's best industrial designer.


-- 
PeterN 

	
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Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
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In article<ou25jh02sur@news4.newsguy.com>, PeterN
<"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net> wrote:

> >>> meanwhile, the rest of the world wants to do actual work, not open
> >>> up their computer and swap parts all day long.
> >>
> >> The usual asshat reply from nospam.   People don't "swap parts all day
> >> long".  They do it when needed from time to time.
> > 
> > actually, they don't. the vast majority of users have someone else
> > repair their computer, just as they do with their cars, tvs and other
> > products.
> > 
> >> When a drive is failing, failed or not large enough it is trivial to
> >> remove and replace.  About 10 minutes with most desktops.
> > 
> > only if someone has the skills and tools.
> 
> Most people I know have the necessary screwdrivers. If not, they are 
> available at their local hardware store, for very little money. It is 
> trivial to open the box and add a drive, or memory.

trivial for you and me.

trivial for the average consumer, not so much.

> I have someone else 
> do it, because of a physical limitation.

so it doesn't actually matter. you're making my point.

> When I tell a repair guy what I 
> want, and stand there and watch, the time to repair is short, and the 
> price is very reasonable.

not all repairs are that quick and not all places will let you watch.

try that at an auto repair shop. 

> > while readers of usenet might, the general public is not going to open
> > up a computer to swap a hard drive.

^^^^^


> >> On a current iMac it can easily take an hour or more.  Tedious.  And no
> >> reason to make it so difficult other than the Apple aesthetic.
> > 
> > the reason is that opening a computer is rarely done, if ever, and
> > optimizing for that scenario stupid.
> 
> By that reasoning, all PC box manufacturers and assemblers, including HP 
> and Dell are run by stupid people.

pretty much, and a very accurate assessment of dell.

hp has a few interesting products, such as the spectre and yoga, but
otherwise, it's the same old boring stuff.

> > it makes a lot more sense to optimize a computer for every day use,
> > versus something that *might* happen.
> > 
> > some cars have the battery in the wheel well, requiring a wheel to be
> > removed just to swap the battery. since car batteries usually last 5-10
> > years, that's a very good design decision.
> > 
> Ah! more vague advice from the world's best industrial designer.

more insults and there's nothing vague about it. 

	
From: Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
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Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
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On Thu, 09 Nov 2017 13:58:17 -0500, nospam<nospam@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

>In article<ou25jh02sur@news4.newsguy.com>, PeterN
><"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net> wrote:
>
>> >>> meanwhile, the rest of the world wants to do actual work, not open
>> >>> up their computer and swap parts all day long.
>> >>
>> >> The usual asshat reply from nospam.   People don't "swap parts all day
>> >> long".  They do it when needed from time to time.
>> > 
>> > actually, they don't. the vast majority of users have someone else
>> > repair their computer, just as they do with their cars, tvs and other
>> > products.
>> > 
>> >> When a drive is failing, failed or not large enough it is trivial to
>> >> remove and replace.  About 10 minutes with most desktops.
>> > 
>> > only if someone has the skills and tools.
>> 
>> Most people I know have the necessary screwdrivers. If not, they are 
>> available at their local hardware store, for very little money. It is 
>> trivial to open the box and add a drive, or memory.
>
>trivial for you and me.
>
>trivial for the average consumer, not so much.
>
>> I have someone else 
>> do it, because of a physical limitation.
>
>so it doesn't actually matter. you're making my point.
>
>> When I tell a repair guy what I 
>> want, and stand there and watch, the time to repair is short, and the 
>> price is very reasonable.
>
>not all repairs are that quick 

No, some machines are not designed to give the repairer rapid access.

> ... and not all places will let you watch.
>
>try that at an auto repair shop. 
>
>> > while readers of usenet might, the general public is not going to open
>> > up a computer to swap a hard drive.
>
>^^^^^
>
>
>> >> On a current iMac it can easily take an hour or more.  Tedious.  And no
>> >> reason to make it so difficult other than the Apple aesthetic.
>> > 
>> > the reason is that opening a computer is rarely done, if ever, and
>> > optimizing for that scenario stupid.
>> 
>> By that reasoning, all PC box manufacturers and assemblers, including HP 
>> and Dell are run by stupid people.
>
>pretty much, and a very accurate assessment of dell.

They must be doing something right. They have twice the market share
of Apple. See http://tinyurl.com/hoz6vdg or 
http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/04/11/apple-grows-to-74-of-worl...

Apart from that Dell does make computers with tool-free access.

>hp has a few interesting products, such as the spectre and yoga, but
>otherwise, it's the same old boring stuff.
>
>> > it makes a lot more sense to optimize a computer for every day use,
>> > versus something that *might* happen.
>> > 
>> > some cars have the battery in the wheel well, requiring a wheel to be
>> > removed just to swap the battery. since car batteries usually last 5-10
>> > years, that's a very good design decision.
>> > 
>> Ah! more vague advice from the world's best industrial designer.
>
>more insults and there's nothing vague about it.

It's not relevant though.

-- 

Regards,

Eric Stevens 

	
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Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
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In article<3gl90d98dnuu5d5ba9057trc23dl1k5pi3@4ax.com>, Eric Stevens<eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote:

> >> >> On a current iMac it can easily take an hour or more.  Tedious.  And no
> >> >> reason to make it so difficult other than the Apple aesthetic.
> >> > 
> >> > the reason is that opening a computer is rarely done, if ever, and
> >> > optimizing for that scenario stupid.
> >> 
> >> By that reasoning, all PC box manufacturers and assemblers, including HP 
> >> and Dell are run by stupid people.
> >
> >pretty much, and a very accurate assessment of dell.
> 
> They must be doing something right. They have twice the market share
> of Apple.

market share doesn't matter and apple doesn't chase it anyway. 

apple, with it's supposedly 'low market share', is on the verge of
becoming the first *trillion* dollar company, while hp, with 'twice the
market share of apple', is but a tiny fraction of apple, currently
about $35b.

if anyone is doing something right, it's apple.

also keep in mind that most of hp and dell sales are corporate
contracts, not end users, which is a totally different market segment,
something those who mindlessly spout market share numbers fail to
understand.

that's also changing, as many companies are increasingly buying macs,
such as ibm and general electric, for example. 

	
From: Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
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On Thu, 09 Nov 2017 20:46:04 -0500, nospam<nospam@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

>In article<3gl90d98dnuu5d5ba9057trc23dl1k5pi3@4ax.com>, Eric Stevens
><eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote:
>
>> >> >> On a current iMac it can easily take an hour or more.  Tedious.  And no
>> >> >> reason to make it so difficult other than the Apple aesthetic.
>> >> > 
>> >> > the reason is that opening a computer is rarely done, if ever, and
>> >> > optimizing for that scenario stupid.
>> >> 
>> >> By that reasoning, all PC box manufacturers and assemblers, including HP 
>> >> and Dell are run by stupid people.
>> >
>> >pretty much, and a very accurate assessment of dell.
>> 
>> They must be doing something right. They have twice the market share
>> of Apple.
>
>market share doesn't matter and apple doesn't chase it anyway. 
>
>apple, with it's supposedly 'low market share', is on the verge of
>becoming the first *trillion* dollar company, while hp, with 'twice the
>market share of apple', is but a tiny fraction of apple, currently
>about $35b.
>
>if anyone is doing something right, it's apple.

But it's not with desktop PCs.
>
>also keep in mind that most of hp and dell sales are corporate
>contracts, not end users, which is a totally different market segment,
>something those who mindlessly spout market share numbers fail to
>understand.

A desktop computer sold is a desktop computer sold. It doesn't really
matter who the buyer is.
>
>that's also changing, as many companies are increasingly buying macs,
>such as ibm and general electric, for example.
-- 

Regards,

Eric Stevens 

	
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In article<sija0d53o5r79g5mnr874akap2os3qo2vh@4ax.com>, Eric Stevens<eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote:

> >> >> By that reasoning, all PC box manufacturers and assemblers, including
> >> >> HP and Dell are run by stupid people.
> >> >
> >> >pretty much, and a very accurate assessment of dell.
> >> 
> >> They must be doing something right. They have twice the market share
> >> of Apple.
> >
> >market share doesn't matter and apple doesn't chase it anyway. 
> >
> >apple, with it's supposedly 'low market share', is on the verge of
> >becoming the first *trillion* dollar company, while hp, with 'twice the
> >market share of apple', is but a tiny fraction of apple, currently
> >about $35b.
> >
> >if anyone is doing something right, it's apple.
> 
> But it's not with desktop PCs.

yes with desktop pcs. 

mac sales are up while the overall pc market is shrinking. 

not that it matters since the future is not desktop pcs. that game is
over.

> >also keep in mind that most of hp and dell sales are corporate
> >contracts, not end users, which is a totally different market segment,
> >something those who mindlessly spout market share numbers fail to
> >understand.
> 
> A desktop computer sold is a desktop computer sold. It doesn't really
> matter who the buyer is.

absolutely wrong. 

	
From: Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
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On Fri, 10 Nov 2017 08:18:35 -0500, nospam<nospam@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

>In article<sija0d53o5r79g5mnr874akap2os3qo2vh@4ax.com>, Eric Stevens
><eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote:
>
>> >> >> By that reasoning, all PC box manufacturers and assemblers, including
>> >> >> HP and Dell are run by stupid people.
>> >> >
>> >> >pretty much, and a very accurate assessment of dell.
>> >> 
>> >> They must be doing something right. They have twice the market share
>> >> of Apple.
>> >
>> >market share doesn't matter and apple doesn't chase it anyway. 
>> >
>> >apple, with it's supposedly 'low market share', is on the verge of
>> >becoming the first *trillion* dollar company, while hp, with 'twice the
>> >market share of apple', is but a tiny fraction of apple, currently
>> >about $35b.
>> >
>> >if anyone is doing something right, it's apple.
>> 
>> But it's not with desktop PCs.
>
>yes with desktop pcs. 
>
>mac sales are up while the overall pc market is shrinking. 

You are changing the subject. We were originally comparing Apple and
Dell who of the latter you wrote (above) "assemblers, including HP and
Dell are run by stupid people .... pretty much, and a very accurate
assessment of dell." We were not discussing the overall PC market.
>
>not that it matters since the future is not desktop pcs. that game is
>over.
>
>> >also keep in mind that most of hp and dell sales are corporate
>> >contracts, not end users, which is a totally different market segment,
>> >something those who mindlessly spout market share numbers fail to
>> >understand.
>> 
>> A desktop computer sold is a desktop computer sold. It doesn't really
>> matter who the buyer is.
>
>absolutely wrong.

Why?
-- 

Regards,

Eric Stevens 

	
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In article<pf8c0dt3dphsgc19rc1cctb2lsffnol1eb@4ax.com>, Eric Stevens<eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote:

> >> >> >> By that reasoning, all PC box manufacturers and assemblers, including
> >> >> >> HP and Dell are run by stupid people.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >pretty much, and a very accurate assessment of dell.
> >> >> 
> >> >> They must be doing something right. They have twice the market share
> >> >> of Apple.
> >> >
> >> >market share doesn't matter and apple doesn't chase it anyway. 
> >> >
> >> >apple, with it's supposedly 'low market share', is on the verge of
> >> >becoming the first *trillion* dollar company, while hp, with 'twice the
> >> >market share of apple', is but a tiny fraction of apple, currently
> >> >about $35b.
> >> >
> >> >if anyone is doing something right, it's apple.
> >> 
> >> But it's not with desktop PCs.
> >
> >yes with desktop pcs. 
> >
> >mac sales are up while the overall pc market is shrinking. 
> 
> You are changing the subject. 

nope.

> We were originally comparing Apple and
> Dell who of the latter you wrote (above) "assemblers, including HP and
> Dell are run by stupid people .... pretty much, and a very accurate
> assessment of dell." We were not discussing the overall PC market.

yes we were. 

just what do you think market share is about, if not the pc market?

hp, dell and apple are all part of the overall pc market.

> >not that it matters since the future is not desktop pcs. that game is
> >over.
> >
> >> >also keep in mind that most of hp and dell sales are corporate
> >> >contracts, not end users, which is a totally different market segment,
> >> >something those who mindlessly spout market share numbers fail to
> >> >understand.
> >> 
> >> A desktop computer sold is a desktop computer sold. It doesn't really
> >> matter who the buyer is.
> >
> >absolutely wrong.
> 
> Why?

common sense.

do you really think those who buy a $200 netbook, a $1000 laptop, a
$2000 midrange system and a $5000 high end workstation are the same
sort of customers? 

not only are the customers different, but the product specs will also
be different as well as the types of tasks done on them. 

	
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On Fri, 10 Nov 2017 17:55:12 -0500, nospam<nospam@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

>In article<pf8c0dt3dphsgc19rc1cctb2lsffnol1eb@4ax.com>, Eric Stevens
><eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote:
>
>> >> >> >> By that reasoning, all PC box manufacturers and assemblers, including
>> >> >> >> HP and Dell are run by stupid people.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >pretty much, and a very accurate assessment of dell.
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> They must be doing something right. They have twice the market share
>> >> >> of Apple.
>> >> >
>> >> >market share doesn't matter and apple doesn't chase it anyway. 
>> >> >
>> >> >apple, with it's supposedly 'low market share', is on the verge of
>> >> >becoming the first *trillion* dollar company, while hp, with 'twice the
>> >> >market share of apple', is but a tiny fraction of apple, currently
>> >> >about $35b.
>> >> >
>> >> >if anyone is doing something right, it's apple.
>> >> 
>> >> But it's not with desktop PCs.
>> >
>> >yes with desktop pcs. 
>> >
>> >mac sales are up while the overall pc market is shrinking. 
>> 
>> You are changing the subject. 
>
>nope.
>
>> We were originally comparing Apple and
>> Dell who of the latter you wrote (above) "assemblers, including HP and
>> Dell are run by stupid people .... pretty much, and a very accurate
>> assessment of dell." We were not discussing the overall PC market.
>
>yes we were. 
>
>just what do you think market share is about, if not the pc market?
>
>hp, dell and apple are all part of the overall pc market.

But the data, the link to which you deleted showed that the "stupid
people" who run Dell have achieved twice the PC market share of Apple.
No wonder you deleted the link and are now trying to change the
subject.
>
>> >not that it matters since the future is not desktop pcs. that game is
>> >over.
>> >
>> >> >also keep in mind that most of hp and dell sales are corporate
>> >> >contracts, not end users, which is a totally different market segment,
>> >> >something those who mindlessly spout market share numbers fail to
>> >> >understand.
>> >> 
>> >> A desktop computer sold is a desktop computer sold. It doesn't really
>> >> matter who the buyer is.
>> >
>> >absolutely wrong.
>> 
>> Why?
>
>common sense.
>
>do you really think those who buy a $200 netbook, a $1000 laptop, a
>$2000 midrange system and a $5000 high end workstation are the same
>sort of customers? 
>
>not only are the customers different, but the product specs will also
>be different as well as the types of tasks done on them.

And their money is all equally good.
-- 

Regards,

Eric Stevens 

	
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In article<h7ic0dhk7i6fj7crvf0bqs46o9epcp1ott@4ax.com>, Eric Stevens<eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote:

> >> >> >> >> By that reasoning, all PC box manufacturers and assemblers,
> >> >> >> >> including
> >> >> >> >> HP and Dell are run by stupid people.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >pretty much, and a very accurate assessment of dell.
> >> >> >> 
> >> >> >> They must be doing something right. They have twice the market share
> >> >> >> of Apple.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >market share doesn't matter and apple doesn't chase it anyway. 
> >> >> >
> >> >> >apple, with it's supposedly 'low market share', is on the verge of
> >> >> >becoming the first *trillion* dollar company, while hp, with 'twice the
> >> >> >market share of apple', is but a tiny fraction of apple, currently
> >> >> >about $35b.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >if anyone is doing something right, it's apple.
> >> >> 
> >> >> But it's not with desktop PCs.
> >> >
> >> >yes with desktop pcs. 
> >> >
> >> >mac sales are up while the overall pc market is shrinking. 
> >> 
> >> You are changing the subject. 
> >
> >nope.
> >
> >> We were originally comparing Apple and
> >> Dell who of the latter you wrote (above) "assemblers, including HP and
> >> Dell are run by stupid people .... pretty much, and a very accurate
> >> assessment of dell." We were not discussing the overall PC market.
> >
> >yes we were. 
> >
> >just what do you think market share is about, if not the pc market?
> >
> >hp, dell and apple are all part of the overall pc market.
> 
> But the data, the link to which you deleted showed that the "stupid
> people" who run Dell have achieved twice the PC market share of Apple.

dell targets a different market segment than apple. the bulk of dell's
sales are corporate contracts, not end user sales. apple's sales are
mostly consumer, a segment dell is extremely weak. for retail sales,
apple owns it. how many dell stores do you see? zero. they were closed
long ago.

but as i said, apple isn't chasing market share. 

also, despite apple's supposedly low (and entirely meaningless) market
share, apple is raking in the bucks, more than hp and dell *combined*:
<http://www.asymco.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Screen-Shot-2013-0...
at-4-16-4.16.46-PM.png>

as i said:
> >> >> >if anyone is doing something right, it's apple.

> No wonder you deleted the link and are now trying to change the
> subject.

nope. i'm exactly on subject, and understand apple *far* better than
you do.

> >> >not that it matters since the future is not desktop pcs. that game is
> >> >over.
> >> >
> >> >> >also keep in mind that most of hp and dell sales are corporate
> >> >> >contracts, not end users, which is a totally different market segment,
> >> >> >something those who mindlessly spout market share numbers fail to
> >> >> >understand.
> >> >> 
> >> >> A desktop computer sold is a desktop computer sold. It doesn't really
> >> >> matter who the buyer is.
> >> >
> >> >absolutely wrong.
> >> 
> >> Why?
> >
> >common sense.
> >
> >do you really think those who buy a $200 netbook, a $1000 laptop, a
> >$2000 midrange system and a $5000 high end workstation are the same
> >sort of customers? 
> >
> >not only are the customers different, but the product specs will also
> >be different as well as the types of tasks done on them.
> 
> And their money is all equally good.

whoosh. 

	
From: Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
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From: Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
Message-ID: <6qsc0dppgdntejnp2nbk8132e0s2qb2u2c@4ax.com>
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On Fri, 10 Nov 2017 21:08:35 -0500, nospam<nospam@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

>In article<h7ic0dhk7i6fj7crvf0bqs46o9epcp1ott@4ax.com>, Eric Stevens
><eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote:
>
>> >> >> >> >> By that reasoning, all PC box manufacturers and assemblers,
>> >> >> >> >> including
>> >> >> >> >> HP and Dell are run by stupid people.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >pretty much, and a very accurate assessment of dell.
>> >> >> >> 
>> >> >> >> They must be doing something right. They have twice the market share
>> >> >> >> of Apple.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >market share doesn't matter and apple doesn't chase it anyway. 
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >apple, with it's supposedly 'low market share', is on the verge of
>> >> >> >becoming the first *trillion* dollar company, while hp, with 'twice the
>> >> >> >market share of apple', is but a tiny fraction of apple, currently
>> >> >> >about $35b.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >if anyone is doing something right, it's apple.
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> But it's not with desktop PCs.
>> >> >
>> >> >yes with desktop pcs. 
>> >> >
>> >> >mac sales are up while the overall pc market is shrinking. 
>> >> 
>> >> You are changing the subject. 
>> >
>> >nope.
>> >
>> >> We were originally comparing Apple and
>> >> Dell who of the latter you wrote (above) "assemblers, including HP and
>> >> Dell are run by stupid people .... pretty much, and a very accurate
>> >> assessment of dell." We were not discussing the overall PC market.
>> >
>> >yes we were. 
>> >
>> >just what do you think market share is about, if not the pc market?
>> >
>> >hp, dell and apple are all part of the overall pc market.
>> 
>> But the data, the link to which you deleted showed that the "stupid
>> people" who run Dell have achieved twice the PC market share of Apple.
>
>dell targets a different market segment than apple. the bulk of dell's
>sales are corporate contracts, not end user sales. apple's sales are
>mostly consumer, a segment dell is extremely weak. for retail sales,
>apple owns it. how many dell stores do you see? zero. they were closed
>long ago.
>
>but as i said, apple isn't chasing market share. 
>
>also, despite apple's supposedly low (and entirely meaningless) market
>share, apple is raking in the bucks, more than hp and dell *combined*:
><http://www.asymco.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Screen-Shot-2013-0...
>at-4-16-4.16.46-PM.png>

Wiggle wiggle (also squirm). Why don't you continue to talk about the
relative competence of Apple and Dell in the PC market, which is where
you started off?
>
>as i said:
>> >> >> >if anyone is doing something right, it's apple.
>
>> No wonder you deleted the link and are now trying to change the
>> subject.
>
>nope. i'm exactly on subject, and understand apple *far* better than
>you do.

And I understand the subject where this started off better than you
seem prepared for.
>
>> >> >not that it matters since the future is not desktop pcs. that game is
>> >> >over.
>> >> >
>> >> >> >also keep in mind that most of hp and dell sales are corporate
>> >> >> >contracts, not end users, which is a totally different market segment,
>> >> >> >something those who mindlessly spout market share numbers fail to
>> >> >> >understand.
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> A desktop computer sold is a desktop computer sold. It doesn't really
>> >> >> matter who the buyer is.
>> >> >
>> >> >absolutely wrong.
>> >> 
>> >> Why?
>> >
>> >common sense.
>> >
>> >do you really think those who buy a $200 netbook, a $1000 laptop, a
>> >$2000 midrange system and a $5000 high end workstation are the same
>> >sort of customers? 
>> >
>> >not only are the customers different, but the product specs will also
>> >be different as well as the types of tasks done on them.
>> 
>> And their money is all equally good.
>
>whoosh.

Can't answer that, can you.
-- 

Regards,

Eric Stevens 

	
From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
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From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2017 09:49:05 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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In article<6qsc0dppgdntejnp2nbk8132e0s2qb2u2c@4ax.com>, Eric Stevens<eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote:

> >> >> We were originally comparing Apple and
> >> >> Dell who of the latter you wrote (above) "assemblers, including HP and
> >> >> Dell are run by stupid people .... pretty much, and a very accurate
> >> >> assessment of dell." We were not discussing the overall PC market.
> >> >
> >> >yes we were. 
> >> >
> >> >just what do you think market share is about, if not the pc market?
> >> >
> >> >hp, dell and apple are all part of the overall pc market.
> >> 
> >> But the data, the link to which you deleted showed that the "stupid
> >> people" who run Dell have achieved twice the PC market share of Apple.
> >
> >dell targets a different market segment than apple. the bulk of dell's
> >sales are corporate contracts, not end user sales. apple's sales are
> >mostly consumer, a segment dell is extremely weak. for retail sales,
> >apple owns it. how many dell stores do you see? zero. they were closed
> >long ago.
> >
> >but as i said, apple isn't chasing market share. 
> >
> >also, despite apple's supposedly low (and entirely meaningless) market
> >share, apple is raking in the bucks, more than hp and dell *combined*:
> ><http://www.asymco.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Screen-Shot-2013-0...
> >at-4-16-4.16.46-PM.png>
> 
> Wiggle wiggle (also squirm). 

nope.

> Why don't you continue to talk about the
> relative competence of Apple and Dell in the PC market, which is where
> you started off?

that's exactly what i have been talking about all along.

> >as i said:
> >> >> >> >if anyone is doing something right, it's apple.
> >
> >> No wonder you deleted the link and are now trying to change the
> >> subject.
> >
> >nope. i'm exactly on subject, and understand apple *far* better than
> >you do.
> 
> And I understand the subject where this started off better than you
> seem prepared for.

nope. you clearly do not. 

you are fixated on market share being the only metric of success.

that's a fundamental misunderstanding.

you also don't understand what the market share numbers even mean. 


> >> >> >> >also keep in mind that most of hp and dell sales are corporate
> >> >> >> >contracts, not end users, which is a totally different market
> >> >> >> >segment,
> >> >> >> >something those who mindlessly spout market share numbers fail to
> >> >> >> >understand.
> >> >> >> 
> >> >> >> A desktop computer sold is a desktop computer sold. It doesn't really
> >> >> >> matter who the buyer is.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >absolutely wrong.
> >> >> 
> >> >> Why?
> >> >
> >> >common sense.
> >> >
> >> >do you really think those who buy a $200 netbook, a $1000 laptop, a
> >> >$2000 midrange system and a $5000 high end workstation are the same
> >> >sort of customers? 
> >> >
> >> >not only are the customers different, but the product specs will also
> >> >be different as well as the types of tasks done on them.
> >> 
> >> And their money is all equally good.
> >
> >whoosh.
> 
> Can't answer that, can you.

i already did, and more than once. 

	
From: Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
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Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2017 12:31:17 -0500
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On Sat, 11 Nov 2017 09:49:05 -0500, nospam<nospam@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

>you are fixated on market share being the only metric of success.
>
>that's a fundamental misunderstanding.
>
>you also don't understand what the market share numbers even mean. 
>
>

For those who are interested in learning more about market research
and market survey techniques, you will be pleased to know that nospam
and Delta Air Lines have announced a series of in-flight seminars on
the subject.  Dates and routes to be announced.

Delta will be providing a block of seats in coach furthest from the
lavatory so seminar participants will be able to walk from their seats
to the lavatory and be able to visibly scan as many passengers as
possible to determine the usage of devices by brand.  

There will be a post-flight session in the Delta Sky Club lounge where
the survey results will be collected and nospam will explain how these
figures can be used to determine market share by brand and why any
anomalies between the market share determined by his survey techniques
and the figures provided by the device's maker should be discounted.
He will conclusively prove that the devices makers are "over their
heads" in this field and "don't understand" market share analysis.
Mostly, his proof will be saying "nope" over and over again.

Delta will assign Frequent Liar Miles for all attendees at these
nospam seminar flights.

In related news, Snopes has debunked the rumor that nospam was the
passenger whose camera battery exploded in the Orlando airport
yesterday.  There is no indication that nospam owns a camera.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/breaking-news/os-airport-orland...


-- 
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida 

	
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Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2017 12:41:30 -0500
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In article<7sce0d5je08v6dn99n1pkrrov5k7ich6an@4ax.com>, Tony Cooper<tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:

> 
> For those who are interested in learning more about market research
> and market survey techniques, you will be pleased to know that nospam
> and Delta Air Lines have announced a series of in-flight seminars on
> the subject.  Dates and routes to be announced.

more of your repeated attacks. 

	
From: Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
Full headers:
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Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2017 13:12:25 -0500
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On Sat, 11 Nov 2017 12:41:30 -0500, nospam<nospam@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

>In article<7sce0d5je08v6dn99n1pkrrov5k7ich6an@4ax.com>, Tony Cooper
><tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> 
>> For those who are interested in learning more about market research
>> and market survey techniques, you will be pleased to know that nospam
>> and Delta Air Lines have announced a series of in-flight seminars on
>> the subject.  Dates and routes to be announced.
>
>more of your repeated attacks.

nope
-- 
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida 

	
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Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
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From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2017 13:27:01 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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In article<ubfe0dd8u3m6u0dct38qpes9978kfrc6sg@4ax.com>, Tony Cooper<tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:

> >> For those who are interested in learning more about market research
> >> and market survey techniques, you will be pleased to know that nospam
> >> and Delta Air Lines have announced a series of in-flight seminars on
> >> the subject.  Dates and routes to be announced.
> >
> >more of your repeated attacks.
> 
> nope

more of your lies. 

	
From: Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
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From: Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2017 20:06:41 -0500
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On Sat, 11 Nov 2017 13:27:01 -0500, nospam<nospam@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

>In article<ubfe0dd8u3m6u0dct38qpes9978kfrc6sg@4ax.com>, Tony Cooper
><tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> >> For those who are interested in learning more about market research
>> >> and market survey techniques, you will be pleased to know that nospam
>> >> and Delta Air Lines have announced a series of in-flight seminars on
>> >> the subject.  Dates and routes to be announced.
>> >
>> >more of your repeated attacks.
>> 
>> nope
>
>more of your lies.

nonsense
-- 
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida 

	
Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
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From: PeterN <"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2017 17:02:26 -0500
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On 11/11/2017 12:31 PM, Tony Cooper wrote:


<SNIP>

> 
> In related news, Snopes has debunked the rumor that nospam was the
> passenger whose camera battery exploded in the Orlando airport
> yesterday.  There is no indication that nospam owns a camera.
> 

There is a difference between having and using.
In defense of nospam, he probably has an iPhone, which has a built in 
camera.


-- 
PeterN 

	
From: Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
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From: Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz>
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Subject: Re: Ripe Apples
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On Sat, 11 Nov 2017 09:49:05 -0500, nospam<nospam@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

>In article<6qsc0dppgdntejnp2nbk8132e0s2qb2u2c@4ax.com>, Eric Stevens
><eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote:
>
>> >> >> We were originally comparing Apple and
>> >> >> Dell who of the latter you wrote (above) "assemblers, including HP and
>> >> >> Dell are run by stupid people .... pretty much, and a very accurate
>> >> >> assessment of dell." We were not discussing the overall PC market.
>> >> >
>> >> >yes we were. 
>> >> >
>> >> >just what do you think market share is about, if not the pc market?
>> >> >
>> >> >hp, dell and apple are all part of the overall pc market.
>> >> 
>> >> But the data, the link to which you deleted showed that the "stupid
>> >> people" who run Dell have achieved twice the PC market share of Apple.
>> >
>> >dell targets a different market segment than apple. the bulk of dell's
>> >sales are corporate contracts, not end user sales. apple's sales are
>> >mostly consumer, a segment dell is extremely weak. for retail sales,
>> >apple owns it. how many dell stores do you see? zero. they were closed
>> >long ago.
>> >
>> >but as i said, apple isn't chasing market share. 
>> >
>> >also, despite apple's supposedly low (and entirely meaningless) market
>> >share, apple is raking in the bucks, more than hp and dell *combined*:
>> ><http://www.asymco.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Screen-Shot-2013-0...
>> >at-4-16-4.16.46-PM.png>
>> 
>> Wiggle wiggle (also squirm). 
>
>nope.
>
>> Why don't you continue to talk about the
>> relative competence of Apple and Dell in the PC market, which is where
>> you started off?
>
>that's exactly what i have been talking about all along.

Are you really saying Apple is raking in all those bucks in the PC
market?

>
>> >as i said:
>> >> >> >> >if anyone is doing something right, it's apple.
>> >
>> >> No wonder you deleted the link and are now trying to change the
>> >> subject.
>> >
>> >nope. i'm exactly on subject, and understand apple *far* better than
>> >you do.
>> 
>> And I understand the subject where this started off better than you
>> seem prepared for.
>
>nope. you clearly do not. 
>
>you are fixated on market share being the only metric of success.
>
>that's a fundamental misunderstanding.
>
>you also don't understand what the market share numbers even mean. 

I do know how to tell which number is the largest of the two.
>
>
>> >> >> >> >also keep in mind that most of hp and dell sales are corporate
>> >> >> >> >contracts, not end users, which is a totally different market
>> >> >> >> >segment,
>> >> >> >> >something those who mindlessly spout market share numbers fail to
>> >> >> >> >understand.
>> >> >> >> 
>> >> >> >> A desktop computer sold is a desktop computer sold. It doesn't really
>> >> >> >> matter who the buyer is.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >absolutely wrong.
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> Why?
>> >> >
>> >> >common sense.
>> >> >
>> >> >do you really think those who buy a $200 netbook, a $1000 laptop, a
>> >> >$2000 midrange system and a $5000 high end workstation are the same
>> >> >sort of customers? 
>> >> >
>> >> >not only are the customers different, but the product specs will also
>> >> >be different as well as the types of tasks done on them.
>> >> 
>> >> And their money is all equally good.
>> >
>> >whoosh.
>> 
>> Can't answer that, can you.
>
>i already did, and more than once.

I bet you won't tell me where.
-- 

Regards,

Eric Stevens