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From: Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com>
Subject: OT: Photoshopping school photos
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From: Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: OT: Photoshopping school photos
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 19:40:04 -0500
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Those of us who live in the US are familiar with "school picture day".
Once a year, primary, middle, and high school students have their
photographs taken.  The photos are used in the yearbook (if the school
publishes one) and prints are available to purchased.

In my day, the students were hustled through the procedure and the
resulting photo was actually a photograph of the student.  

Today, school photographers offer editing-at-a-cost.  The local
photographer charges $20 to whiten teeth, whiten the whites of the
eyes, and remove minor blemishes.  Other, more extensive services are
available.  If all the services are taken, the amount could be as much
as $240.  That might include taking braces off, restoring missing
teeth, removal of tan lines, adjustments to the hair, etc.

I've used "Photoshopping" in the Subject line, but some other software
may be used.  Adobe, of course, discourages the use of the word
"Photoshopping", and - of course - using it as a generic term for
editing a photograph with software.  If they're reading, I apologize.
-- 
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida 

	
From: Mayayana <mayayana@invalid.nospam>
Subject: Re: Photoshopping school photos
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From: "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Photoshopping school photos
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 21:34:32 -0500
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"Tony Cooper"<tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote

| Today, school photographers offer editing-at-a-cost.  The local
| photographer charges $20 to whiten teeth, whiten the whites of the
| eyes, and remove minor blemishes.  Other, more extensive services are
| available.  If all the services are taken, the amount could be as much
| as $240.  That might include taking braces off, restoring missing
| teeth, removal of tan lines, adjustments to the hair, etc.
|
| I've used "Photoshopping" in the Subject line, but some other software
| may be used.

  I think that's not really a PS thing. There are
specific programs. When I bought PSP16
"Ultimate" version it came with Face Filter 3.
I never used it. It required me to register and I
had no interest in the functionality. But it's
one of a number of automated programs that
do what you're talking about. The difference
with PS is that these programs don't just provide
tools. They provide "wizards".

  Face Filter describes functions like so:

Create a flawless complexion... skin smoothing...
blemish removal.

 Beautifying tools. Basically graphical makeup.

Expression redefining. "Muscle based facial
morhing to create a desired expression".

   I'd guess that the school photographers are
using such tools. Not skill with PS. Just feed in
the photo and get a picture of a more attractive,
similar looking person. On the other hand, like
plastic surgery it doesn't really quite work. The
personal character is lost and that's most of
what makes someone interesting. 

	
Subject: Re: Photoshopping school photos
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From: PeterN <"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Photoshopping school photos
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 21:58:17 -0500
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On 11/29/2017 9:34 PM, Mayayana wrote:
> "Tony Cooper"<tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote
> 
> | Today, school photographers offer editing-at-a-cost.  The local
> | photographer charges $20 to whiten teeth, whiten the whites of the
> | eyes, and remove minor blemishes.  Other, more extensive services are
> | available.  If all the services are taken, the amount could be as much
> | as $240.  That might include taking braces off, restoring missing
> | teeth, removal of tan lines, adjustments to the hair, etc.
> |
> | I've used "Photoshopping" in the Subject line, but some other software
> | may be used.
> 
>    I think that's not really a PS thing. There are
> specific programs. When I bought PSP16
> "Ultimate" version it came with Face Filter 3.
> I never used it. It required me to register and I
> had no interest in the functionality. But it's
> one of a number of automated programs that
> do what you're talking about. The difference
> with PS is that these programs don't just provide
> tools. They provide "wizards".
> 
>    Face Filter describes functions like so:
> 
> Create a flawless complexion... skin smoothing...
> blemish removal.
> 
>   Beautifying tools. Basically graphical makeup.
> 
> Expression redefining. "Muscle based facial
> morhing to create a desired expression".
> 
>     I'd guess that the school photographers are
> using such tools. Not skill with PS. Just feed in
> the photo and get a picture of a more attractive,
> similar looking person. On the other hand, like
> plastic surgery it doesn't really quite work. The
> personal character is lost and that's most of
> what makes someone interesting.
> 
> 

It looks like my initial response to Tony did not get through.
Event and portrait photographers have been fixing blemishes for years. 
In the digital age a lot of people tend to regard photographers as a 
commodity, and not as craftsman and artists. Photographers are entitled 
to make an honest living. They need to eat, as do all of us. If fixing 
images of teeth helps them do so, I think that's great.

-- 
PeterN 

	
From: Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Photoshopping school photos
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From: Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Photoshopping school photos
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 22:28:47 -0500
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On Wed, 29 Nov 2017 21:58:17 -0500, PeterN
<"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net> wrote:

>On 11/29/2017 9:34 PM, Mayayana wrote:
>> "Tony Cooper"<tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote
>> 
>> | Today, school photographers offer editing-at-a-cost.  The local
>> | photographer charges $20 to whiten teeth, whiten the whites of the
>> | eyes, and remove minor blemishes.  Other, more extensive services are
>> | available.  If all the services are taken, the amount could be as much
>> | as $240.  That might include taking braces off, restoring missing
>> | teeth, removal of tan lines, adjustments to the hair, etc.
>> |
>> | I've used "Photoshopping" in the Subject line, but some other software
>> | may be used.
>> 
>>    I think that's not really a PS thing. There are
>> specific programs. When I bought PSP16
>> "Ultimate" version it came with Face Filter 3.
>> I never used it. It required me to register and I
>> had no interest in the functionality. But it's
>> one of a number of automated programs that
>> do what you're talking about. The difference
>> with PS is that these programs don't just provide
>> tools. They provide "wizards".
>> 
>>    Face Filter describes functions like so:
>> 
>> Create a flawless complexion... skin smoothing...
>> blemish removal.
>> 
>>   Beautifying tools. Basically graphical makeup.
>> 
>> Expression redefining. "Muscle based facial
>> morhing to create a desired expression".
>> 
>>     I'd guess that the school photographers are
>> using such tools. Not skill with PS. Just feed in
>> the photo and get a picture of a more attractive,
>> similar looking person. On the other hand, like
>> plastic surgery it doesn't really quite work. The
>> personal character is lost and that's most of
>> what makes someone interesting.
>> 
>> 
>
>It looks like my initial response to Tony did not get through.

It came through to me as email.

>Event and portrait photographers have been fixing blemishes for years. 
>In the digital age a lot of people tend to regard photographers as a 
>commodity, and not as craftsman and artists. Photographers are entitled 
>to make an honest living. They need to eat, as do all of us. If fixing 
>images of teeth helps them do so, I think that's great.

I don't object to photographers making money, but I do see the
practice as somewhat objectionable.  The message it gives to the kids
is that their appearance is of paramount importance to their parents. 
You're teeth aren't brilliantly white in a photo?  You don't live up
to my expectations.   You're parents didn't pay to have that gap where
the baby tooth came out filled in with a fake tooth?  They must not
love you. 

When the demand for physical perfection starts that early in life it
can have later repercussions.  

-- 
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida 

	
From: android <here@there.was>
Subject: Re: Photoshopping school photos
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From: android <here@there.was>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Photoshopping school photos
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On  2017-11-30 04:28, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Nov 2017 21:58:17 -0500, PeterN
> <"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net> wrote:
> 
>> On 11/29/2017 9:34 PM, Mayayana wrote:
>>> "Tony Cooper"<tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote
>>>
>>> | Today, school photographers offer editing-at-a-cost.  The local
>>> | photographer charges $20 to whiten teeth, whiten the whites of the
>>> | eyes, and remove minor blemishes.  Other, more extensive services are
>>> | available.  If all the services are taken, the amount could be as much
>>> | as $240.  That might include taking braces off, restoring missing
>>> | teeth, removal of tan lines, adjustments to the hair, etc.
>>> |
>>> | I've used "Photoshopping" in the Subject line, but some other software
>>> | may be used.
>>>
>>>     I think that's not really a PS thing. There are
>>> specific programs. When I bought PSP16
>>> "Ultimate" version it came with Face Filter 3.
>>> I never used it. It required me to register and I
>>> had no interest in the functionality. But it's
>>> one of a number of automated programs that
>>> do what you're talking about. The difference
>>> with PS is that these programs don't just provide
>>> tools. They provide "wizards".
>>>
>>>     Face Filter describes functions like so:
>>>
>>> Create a flawless complexion... skin smoothing...
>>> blemish removal.
>>>
>>>    Beautifying tools. Basically graphical makeup.
>>>
>>> Expression redefining. "Muscle based facial
>>> morhing to create a desired expression".
>>>
>>>      I'd guess that the school photographers are
>>> using such tools. Not skill with PS. Just feed in
>>> the photo and get a picture of a more attractive,
>>> similar looking person. On the other hand, like
>>> plastic surgery it doesn't really quite work. The
>>> personal character is lost and that's most of
>>> what makes someone interesting.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> It looks like my initial response to Tony did not get through.
> 
> It came through to me as email.
> 
>> Event and portrait photographers have been fixing blemishes for years.
>> In the digital age a lot of people tend to regard photographers as a
>> commodity, and not as craftsman and artists. Photographers are entitled
>> to make an honest living. They need to eat, as do all of us. If fixing
>> images of teeth helps them do so, I think that's great.
> 
> I don't object to photographers making money, but I do see the
> practice as somewhat objectionable.  The message it gives to the kids
> is that their appearance is of paramount importance to their parents.
> You're teeth aren't brilliantly white in a photo?  You don't live up
> to my expectations.   You're parents didn't pay to have that gap where
> the baby tooth came out filled in with a fake tooth?  They must not
> love you.
> 
> When the demand for physical perfection starts that early in life it
> can have later repercussions.
> 
If you alter the contents of a photo so that it don't reflect a 
reasonable normal perception of reality then it's not a photograph 
anymore. It's a collage! Removing blemishes like acne and such are doing 
that. Removing dust bunnies stuck on the sensor is not.

-- 
teleportation kills 

	
From: Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Photoshopping school photos
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From: Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Photoshopping school photos
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 00:42:12 -0500
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On Wed, 29 Nov 2017 22:28:47 -0500, Tony Cooper<tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 29 Nov 2017 21:58:17 -0500, PeterN
><"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net> wrote:
>
>>On 11/29/2017 9:34 PM, Mayayana wrote:
>>> "Tony Cooper"<tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote
>>> 
>>> | Today, school photographers offer editing-at-a-cost.  The local
>>> | photographer charges $20 to whiten teeth, whiten the whites of the
>>> | eyes, and remove minor blemishes.  Other, more extensive services are
>>> | available.  If all the services are taken, the amount could be as much
>>> | as $240.  That might include taking braces off, restoring missing
>>> | teeth, removal of tan lines, adjustments to the hair, etc.
>>> |
>>> | I've used "Photoshopping" in the Subject line, but some other software
>>> | may be used.
>>> 
>>>    I think that's not really a PS thing. There are
>>> specific programs. When I bought PSP16
>>> "Ultimate" version it came with Face Filter 3.
>>> I never used it. It required me to register and I
>>> had no interest in the functionality. But it's
>>> one of a number of automated programs that
>>> do what you're talking about. The difference
>>> with PS is that these programs don't just provide
>>> tools. They provide "wizards".
>>> 
>>>    Face Filter describes functions like so:
>>> 
>>> Create a flawless complexion... skin smoothing...
>>> blemish removal.
>>> 
>>>   Beautifying tools. Basically graphical makeup.
>>> 
>>> Expression redefining. "Muscle based facial
>>> morhing to create a desired expression".
>>> 
>>>     I'd guess that the school photographers are
>>> using such tools. Not skill with PS. Just feed in
>>> the photo and get a picture of a more attractive,
>>> similar looking person. On the other hand, like
>>> plastic surgery it doesn't really quite work. The
>>> personal character is lost and that's most of
>>> what makes someone interesting.
>>> 
>>> 
>>
>>It looks like my initial response to Tony did not get through.
>
>It came through to me as email.
>
>>Event and portrait photographers have been fixing blemishes for years. 
>>In the digital age a lot of people tend to regard photographers as a 
>>commodity, and not as craftsman and artists. Photographers are entitled 
>>to make an honest living. They need to eat, as do all of us. If fixing 
>>images of teeth helps them do so, I think that's great.
>
>I don't object to photographers making money, but I do see the
>practice as somewhat objectionable.  The message it gives to the kids
>is that their appearance is of paramount importance to their parents. 
>You're teeth aren't brilliantly white in a photo?  You don't live up
>to my expectations.   You're parents didn't pay to have that gap where
>the baby tooth came out filled in with a fake tooth?  They must not
>love you. 
>
>When the demand for physical perfection starts that early in life it
>can have later repercussions.  

Admission of error in writing "you're" instead of "your" in the above.
-- 
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida 

	
From: android <here@there.was>
Subject: Re: Photoshopping school photos
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From: android <here@there.was>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Photoshopping school photos
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 06:43:46 +0100
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On  2017-11-30 06:42, Tony Cooper wrote:
> Admission of error in writing "you're" instead of "your" in the above.

Sandman would have been soooo pleased...
-- 
teleportation kills 

	
From: Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Photoshopping school photos
Full headers:
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From: Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Photoshopping school photos
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 01:03:53 -0500
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On Thu, 30 Nov 2017 06:43:46 +0100, android<here@there.was> wrote:

>On  2017-11-30 06:42, Tony Cooper wrote:
>> Admission of error in writing "you're" instead of "your" in the above.
>
>Sandman would have been soooo pleased...

Some of us have no qualms about acknowledging and admitting to having
made an error.  some don't.

-- 
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida 

	
From: Whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Photoshopping school photos
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Subject: Re: Photoshopping school photos
From: Whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com>
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On Thursday, 30 November 2017 06:03:56 UTC, Tony Cooper  wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Nov 2017 06:43:46 +0100, android<here@there.was> wrote:
> 
> >On  2017-11-30 06:42, Tony Cooper wrote:
> >> Admission of error in writing "you're" instead of "your" in the above.
> >
> >Sandman would have been soooo pleased...
> 
> Some of us have no qualms about acknowledging and admitting to having
> made an error.  some don't.

Some of us can work these things out for oursleves and don't get too flustered by such and can
understand that some can think faster than they can type and may well not notice teh errors. :-)
while other those that thibnk they are cleverer won;t be able to work out what the fukc the word is
meant to be.

But it's always worth pointing out the amusing ones.





> 
> -- 
> Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida 

	
From: android <here@there.was>
Subject: Re: Photoshopping school photos
Full headers:
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From: android <here@there.was>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Photoshopping school photos
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 12:24:59 +0100
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On  2017-11-30 12:01, Whisky-dave wrote:
> On Thursday, 30 November 2017 06:03:56 UTC, Tony Cooper  wrote:
>> On Thu, 30 Nov 2017 06:43:46 +0100, android<here@there.was> wrote:
>>
>>> On  2017-11-30 06:42, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>>> Admission of error in writing "you're" instead of "your" in the above.
>>>
>>> Sandman would have been soooo pleased...
>>
>> Some of us have no qualms about acknowledging and admitting to having
>> made an error.  some don't.
> 
> Some of us can work these things out for oursleves and don't get too flustered by such and can
understand that some can think faster than they can type and may well not notice teh errors. :-)
while other those that thibnk they are cleverer won;t be able to work out what the fukc the word is
meant to be.
> 
> But it's always worth pointing out the amusing ones.
> 

Some typos makes good puns. You Sir though, are suspected to have that 
missing Enigma (TM) by your desk scrambling your masages...
-- 
teleportation kills 

	
From: Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Photoshopping school photos
Full headers:
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From: Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Photoshopping school photos
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 11:43:51 -0500
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On Thu, 30 Nov 2017 12:24:59 +0100, android<here@there.was> wrote:

>On  2017-11-30 12:01, Whisky-dave wrote:
>> On Thursday, 30 November 2017 06:03:56 UTC, Tony Cooper  wrote:
>>> On Thu, 30 Nov 2017 06:43:46 +0100, android<here@there.was> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On  2017-11-30 06:42, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>>>> Admission of error in writing "you're" instead of "your" in the above.
>>>>
>>>> Sandman would have been soooo pleased...
>>>
>>> Some of us have no qualms about acknowledging and admitting to having
>>> made an error.  some don't.
>> 
>> Some of us can work these things out for oursleves and don't get too flustered by such and can
understand that some can think faster than they can type and may well not notice teh errors. :-)
while other those that thibnk they are cleverer won;t be able to work out what the fukc the word is
meant to be.
>> 
>> But it's always worth pointing out the amusing ones.
>> 
>
>Some typos makes good puns. You Sir though, are suspected to have that 
>missing Enigma (TM) by your desk scrambling your masages...

I am of the school that says that typos in newsgroup messages should
only be noted if the response is a pun or a form of word play.
-- 
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida 

	
From: PeterN <peter.new@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Photoshopping school photos
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From: PeterN <peter.new@verizon.net>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Photoshopping school photos
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 14:44:47 -0500
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On 11/30/2017 11:43 AM, Tony Cooper wrote:

<snip>


> 
> I am of the school that says that typos in newsgroup messages should
> only be noted if the response is a pun or a form of word play.
> 

Or, alter the meaning and/or create an ambiguity.


-- 
PeterN 

	
From: android <here@there.was>
Subject: Re: Photoshopping school photos
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From: android <here@there.was>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Photoshopping school photos
Date: 30 Nov 2017 20:27:22 GMT
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On Thu, 30 Nov 2017 14:44:47 -0500, PeterN<peter.new@verizon.net> wrote
in ovpnis02b20@news6.newsguy.com:

> On 11/30/2017 11:43 AM, Tony Cooper wrote:
> 
> <snip>
> 
> 
> 
>> I am of the school that says that typos in newsgroup messages should
>> only be noted if the response is a pun or a form of word play.
>> 
>> 
> Or, alter the meaning and/or create an ambiguity.

That could be a hidden agenda among some clever, and less so typoists!

-- 
teleportation kills 

	
From: PeterN <peter.new@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Photoshopping school photos
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From: PeterN <peter.new@verizon.net>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Photoshopping school photos
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 16:22:24 -0500
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On 11/30/2017 3:27 PM, android wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Nov 2017 14:44:47 -0500, PeterN<peter.new@verizon.net> wrote
> in ovpnis02b20@news6.newsguy.com:
> 
>> On 11/30/2017 11:43 AM, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>
>>
>>> I am of the school that says that typos in newsgroup messages should
>>> only be noted if the response is a pun or a form of word play.
>>>
>>>
>> Or, alter the meaning and/or create an ambiguity.
> 
> That could be a hidden agenda among some clever, and less so typoists!
> 

You must have had a lot of carpentry practice. You hit the nail squarely 
on the head.

-- 
PeterN 

	
From: Whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Photoshopping school photos
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Subject: Re: Photoshopping school photos
From: Whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com>
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On Thursday, 30 November 2017 21:22:36 UTC, peterN  wrote:
> On 11/30/2017 3:27 PM, android wrote:
> > On Thu, 30 Nov 2017 14:44:47 -0500, PeterN<peter.new@verizon.net> wrote
> > in ovpnis02b20@news6.newsguy.com:
> > 
> >> On 11/30/2017 11:43 AM, Tony Cooper wrote:
> >>
> >> <snip>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> I am of the school that says that typos in newsgroup messages should
> >>> only be noted if the response is a pun or a form of word play.
> >>>
> >>>
> >> Or, alter the meaning and/or create an ambiguity.
> > 
> > That could be a hidden agenda among some clever, and less so typoists!
> > 
> 
> You must have had a lot of carpentry practice. You hit the nail squarely 
> on the head.
> 
> -- 
> PeterN

But most seem to believe that those that make typos are stupid because they make typos do you
seriously believe that such stupid people are capable of fooling them.
That's like saying Trunmp will post a video of a British person attacking another for Britain First
and trying to imply that the attacker is a muslim terrorist,  who would be stupid enough to fall for
such a thing and who would be stupid enough to post such a thing,  not someone with very high IQ
surely ;-) 

	
From: PeterN <peter.new@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Photoshopping school photos
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From: PeterN <peter.new@verizon.net>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Photoshopping school photos
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 16:12:27 -0500
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On 11/29/2017 10:28 PM, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Nov 2017 21:58:17 -0500, PeterN
> <"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net> wrote:
> 
>> On 11/29/2017 9:34 PM, Mayayana wrote:
>>> "Tony Cooper"<tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote
>>>
>>> | Today, school photographers offer editing-at-a-cost.  The local
>>> | photographer charges $20 to whiten teeth, whiten the whites of the
>>> | eyes, and remove minor blemishes.  Other, more extensive services are
>>> | available.  If all the services are taken, the amount could be as much
>>> | as $240.  That might include taking braces off, restoring missing
>>> | teeth, removal of tan lines, adjustments to the hair, etc.
>>> |
>>> | I've used "Photoshopping" in the Subject line, but some other software
>>> | may be used.
>>>
>>>     I think that's not really a PS thing. There are
>>> specific programs. When I bought PSP16
>>> "Ultimate" version it came with Face Filter 3.
>>> I never used it. It required me to register and I
>>> had no interest in the functionality. But it's
>>> one of a number of automated programs that
>>> do what you're talking about. The difference
>>> with PS is that these programs don't just provide
>>> tools. They provide "wizards".
>>>
>>>     Face Filter describes functions like so:
>>>
>>> Create a flawless complexion... skin smoothing...
>>> blemish removal.
>>>
>>>    Beautifying tools. Basically graphical makeup.
>>>
>>> Expression redefining. "Muscle based facial
>>> morhing to create a desired expression".
>>>
>>>      I'd guess that the school photographers are
>>> using such tools. Not skill with PS. Just feed in
>>> the photo and get a picture of a more attractive,
>>> similar looking person. On the other hand, like
>>> plastic surgery it doesn't really quite work. The
>>> personal character is lost and that's most of
>>> what makes someone interesting.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> It looks like my initial response to Tony did not get through.
> 
> It came through to me as email.
> 
>> Event and portrait photographers have been fixing blemishes for years.
>> In the digital age a lot of people tend to regard photographers as a
>> commodity, and not as craftsman and artists. Photographers are entitled
>> to make an honest living. They need to eat, as do all of us. If fixing
>> images of teeth helps them do so, I think that's great.
> 
> I don't object to photographers making money, but I do see the
> practice as somewhat objectionable.  The message it gives to the kids
> is that their appearance is of paramount importance to their parents.
> You're teeth aren't brilliantly white in a photo?  You don't live up
> to my expectations.   You're parents didn't pay to have that gap where
> the baby tooth came out filled in with a fake tooth?  They must not
> love you.
> 
> When the demand for physical perfection starts that early in life it
> can have later repercussions.
> 
That is our society. There are a lot of kids running around with braces, 
a lessor number get nose jobs, females, who can afford it get; face and 
body lifts; including, but not limited to thigh reduction, breast 
enlargement; breast reduction, etc. Doing this photographically is a lot 
less intrusive, reversible, and expensive. And as I said earlier, 
retouching of portraits and other images, is common practice.

As a practical matter if two people with equal qualifications are 
seeking a job, one is pimply faced and obese, with buck teeth, and the 
other could be a model for Myron, There is little doubt in my mind that 
the Myron model would get first dibs. I am not saying that is morally 
right, I am just saying that is how things are.
-- 
PeterN 

	
From: Whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Photoshopping school photos
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Subject: Re: Photoshopping school photos
From: Whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com>
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On Thursday, 30 November 2017 21:13:22 UTC, peterN  wrote:
> On 11/29/2017 10:28 PM, Tony Cooper wrote:

 
> > When the demand for physical perfection starts that early in life it
> > can have later repercussions.
> > 
> That is our society. There are a lot of kids running around with braces, 
> a lessor number get nose jobs, females, who can afford it get; face and 
> body lifts; including, but not limited to thigh reduction, breast 
> enlargement; breast reduction, etc. Doing this photographically is a lot 
> less intrusive, reversible, and expensive. And as I said earlier, 
> retouching of portraits and other images, is common practice.

So out of these two individuals, who would get the job as a model, would it be the buck teech girl
that had spent a large amount on hiring a photoshop toucher-up-per or the plain girl that couldnlt
afford such a thing ?
Surely most of these jobs the hirer judges who they want as a model from the pictures they present.

 

> As a practical matter if two people with equal qualifications are 
> seeking a job, one is pimply faced and obese, with buck teeth, and the 
> other could be a model for Myron, There is little doubt in my mind that 
> the Myron model would get first dibs. 

Why just supose the buck teeth girl spent a few grand on getting her photos retouched ?

>I am not saying that is morally 
> right, I am just saying that is how things are.

Do those employing models base their choices from photographs or real life meetings ?

 Have you ever watched Americans next top model,  I have. (other countries top models are availble) 

	
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Subject: Re: Photoshopping school photos
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On Fri, 01 Dec 2017 04:35:03 -0800, Whisky-dave<whisky.dave@gmail.com>
wrote in 8aaefe92-e684-4c79-95e5-e83cec4f50ad@googlegroups.com:

> On Thursday, 30 November 2017 21:13:22 UTC, peterN  wrote:
>> On 11/29/2017 10:28 PM, Tony Cooper wrote:
> 
> 
>> > When the demand for physical perfection starts that early in life it
>> > can have later repercussions.
>> > 
>> That is our society. There are a lot of kids running around with
>> braces,
>> a lessor number get nose jobs, females, who can afford it get; face and
>> body lifts; including, but not limited to thigh reduction, breast
>> enlargement; breast reduction, etc. Doing this photographically is a
>> lot less intrusive, reversible, and expensive. And as I said earlier,
>> retouching of portraits and other images, is common practice.
> 
> So out of these two individuals, who would get the job as a model, would
> it be the buck teech girl that had spent a large amount on hiring a
> photoshop toucher-up-per or the plain girl that couldnlt afford such a
> thing ?
> Surely most of these jobs the hirer judges who they want as a model from
> the pictures they present.
> 
> 
>  
>> As a practical matter if two people with equal qualifications are
>> seeking a job, one is pimply faced and obese, with buck teeth, and the
>> other could be a model for Myron, There is little doubt in my mind that
>> the Myron model would get first dibs.
> 
> Why just supose the buck teeth girl spent a few grand on getting her
> photos retouched ?

She or her boyfriend can do it. Price of admission: 10USD...

<https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/instabeauty-4-face-retouch/id1281876...

> 
>>I am not saying that is morally
>> right, I am just saying that is how things are.
> 
> Do those employing models base their choices from photographs or real
> life meetings ?

How big is the account?
> 
>  Have you ever watched Americans next top model,  I have. (other
>  countries top models are availble)

You don't say...
-- 
teleportation kills 

	
Subject: Re: Photoshopping school photos
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From: PeterN <"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Photoshopping school photos
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 21:39:37 -0500
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On 11/29/2017 10:28 PM, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Nov 2017 21:58:17 -0500, PeterN
> <"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net> wrote:
> 
>> On 11/29/2017 9:34 PM, Mayayana wrote:
>>> "Tony Cooper"<tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote
>>>
>>> | Today, school photographers offer editing-at-a-cost.  The local
>>> | photographer charges $20 to whiten teeth, whiten the whites of the
>>> | eyes, and remove minor blemishes.  Other, more extensive services are
>>> | available.  If all the services are taken, the amount could be as much
>>> | as $240.  That might include taking braces off, restoring missing
>>> | teeth, removal of tan lines, adjustments to the hair, etc.
>>> |
>>> | I've used "Photoshopping" in the Subject line, but some other software
>>> | may be used.
>>>
>>>     I think that's not really a PS thing. There are
>>> specific programs. When I bought PSP16
>>> "Ultimate" version it came with Face Filter 3.
>>> I never used it. It required me to register and I
>>> had no interest in the functionality. But it's
>>> one of a number of automated programs that
>>> do what you're talking about. The difference
>>> with PS is that these programs don't just provide
>>> tools. They provide "wizards".
>>>
>>>     Face Filter describes functions like so:
>>>
>>> Create a flawless complexion... skin smoothing...
>>> blemish removal.
>>>
>>>    Beautifying tools. Basically graphical makeup.
>>>
>>> Expression redefining. "Muscle based facial
>>> morhing to create a desired expression".
>>>
>>>      I'd guess that the school photographers are
>>> using such tools. Not skill with PS. Just feed in
>>> the photo and get a picture of a more attractive,
>>> similar looking person. On the other hand, like
>>> plastic surgery it doesn't really quite work. The
>>> personal character is lost and that's most of
>>> what makes someone interesting.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> It looks like my initial response to Tony did not get through.
> 
> It came through to me as email.
> 
>> Event and portrait photographers have been fixing blemishes for years.
>> In the digital age a lot of people tend to regard photographers as a
>> commodity, and not as craftsman and artists. Photographers are entitled
>> to make an honest living. They need to eat, as do all of us. If fixing
>> images of teeth helps them do so, I think that's great.
> 
> I don't object to photographers making money, but I do see the
> practice as somewhat objectionable.  The message it gives to the kids
> is that their appearance is of paramount importance to their parents.
> You're teeth aren't brilliantly white in a photo?  You don't live up
> to my expectations.   You're parents didn't pay to have that gap where
> the baby tooth came out filled in with a fake tooth?  They must not
> love you.

To me that seems like a stretch. If a kid thinks he is not loved because 
his parents didn't give him a material thing, I think there is a deeper 
problem with the relationship.

> 
> When the demand for physical perfection starts that early in life it
> can have later repercussions.
> 
It sounds to me that you are conflating an absolute of perfection, with 
making the best of what you are.
Lots of kids go to school wearing hand me downs. Is it a terrible thing 
for the clothes to be neat and clean? Should the use of bleach and soap 
be outlawed. If a kid stammers and stutters should he be denied speech 
therapy.
Your statement sounds to me like you are conflating unconditional 
emotional caring with making the best of the way things are.

-- 
PeterN 

	
From: Whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Photoshopping school photos
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Subject: Re: Photoshopping school photos
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On Thursday, 30 November 2017 02:59:00 UTC, PeterN  wrote:
> On 11/29/2017 9:34 PM, Mayayana wrote:
> > "Tony Cooper"<tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote
> > 
> > | Today, school photographers offer editing-at-a-cost.  The local
> > | photographer charges $20 to whiten teeth, whiten the whites of the
> > | eyes, and remove minor blemishes.  Other, more extensive services are
> > | available.  If all the services are taken, the amount could be as much
> > | as $240.  That might include taking braces off, restoring missing
> > | teeth, removal of tan lines, adjustments to the hair, etc.
> > |
> > | I've used "Photoshopping" in the Subject line, but some other software
> > | may be used.
> > 
> >    I think that's not really a PS thing. There are
> > specific programs. When I bought PSP16
> > "Ultimate" version it came with Face Filter 3.
> > I never used it. It required me to register and I
> > had no interest in the functionality. But it's
> > one of a number of automated programs that
> > do what you're talking about. The difference
> > with PS is that these programs don't just provide
> > tools. They provide "wizards".
> > 
> >    Face Filter describes functions like so:
> > 
> > Create a flawless complexion... skin smoothing...
> > blemish removal.
> > 
> >   Beautifying tools. Basically graphical makeup.
> > 
> > Expression redefining. "Muscle based facial
> > morhing to create a desired expression".
> > 
> >     I'd guess that the school photographers are
> > using such tools. Not skill with PS. Just feed in
> > the photo and get a picture of a more attractive,
> > similar looking person. On the other hand, like
> > plastic surgery it doesn't really quite work. The
> > personal character is lost and that's most of
> > what makes someone interesting.
> > 
> > 
> 
> It looks like my initial response to Tony did not get through.
> Event and portrait photographers have been fixing blemishes for years. 

Decades+,  someone I knew fixed blemishes before WWII.

> In the digital age a lot of people tend to regard photographers as a 
> commodity, and not as craftsman and artists. Photographers are entitled 
> to make an honest living. 

Ah yes as long as it's honest.

>They need to eat, as do all of us. If fixing 
> images of teeth helps them do so, I think that's great.

Well it does depend on the reason doesn't it.
Just supose you were hiring a model from a catologue of some sort.
You foudn this beautiful girl who looked  exactly right for the photo shoot you wanted so you email
her and a week later she arrives, trouble is the photoshopped image yuo based yuor assemement on
isn't quite right.
In fact this slime-sleek girl is actually over weight if not obese, only has half her teeth, her
hair is al matted and she has tatooes on her body which you didn't see in the picture, but donl;t
worry with a day or so photoshopping you can get her to look exactly like you want.

Then there's the peer pressure  your next door daughters parents gave  $500 to have her picture
taken and 'adjusted' so you should do the same.
Not that it's the photographers problem.

But I do see this as another job NOT necessarily a photographers but a graphic artists job. 

	
From: Ken Hart <kwhart1@frontier.com>
Subject: Re: Photoshopping school photos
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Subject: Re: Photoshopping school photos
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On 11/30/2017 05:56 AM, Whisky-dave wrote:
> On Thursday, 30 November 2017 02:59:00 UTC, PeterN  wrote:
>> On 11/29/2017 9:34 PM, Mayayana wrote:
>>> "Tony Cooper"<tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote
>>>
>>> | Today, school photographers offer editing-at-a-cost.  The local
>>> | photographer charges $20 to whiten teeth, whiten the whites of the
>>> | eyes, and remove minor blemishes.  Other, more extensive services are
>>> | available.  If all the services are taken, the amount could be as much
>>> | as $240.  That might include taking braces off, restoring missing
>>> | teeth, removal of tan lines, adjustments to the hair, etc.
>>> |
>>> | I've used "Photoshopping" in the Subject line, but some other software
>>> | may be used.
>>>
>>>     I think that's not really a PS thing. There are
>>> specific programs. When I bought PSP16
>>> "Ultimate" version it came with Face Filter 3.
>>> I never used it. It required me to register and I
>>> had no interest in the functionality. But it's
>>> one of a number of automated programs that
>>> do what you're talking about. The difference
>>> with PS is that these programs don't just provide
>>> tools. They provide "wizards".
>>>
>>>     Face Filter describes functions like so:
>>>
>>> Create a flawless complexion... skin smoothing...
>>> blemish removal.
>>>
>>>    Beautifying tools. Basically graphical makeup.
>>>
>>> Expression redefining. "Muscle based facial
>>> morhing to create a desired expression".
>>>
>>>      I'd guess that the school photographers are
>>> using such tools. Not skill with PS. Just feed in
>>> the photo and get a picture of a more attractive,
>>> similar looking person. On the other hand, like
>>> plastic surgery it doesn't really quite work. The
>>> personal character is lost and that's most of
>>> what makes someone interesting.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> It looks like my initial response to Tony did not get through.
>> Event and portrait photographers have been fixing blemishes for years.
> 
> Decades+,  someone I knew fixed blemishes before WWII.
> 
>> In the digital age a lot of people tend to regard photographers as a
>> commodity, and not as craftsman and artists. Photographers are entitled
>> to make an honest living.
> 
> Ah yes as long as it's honest.
> 
>> They need to eat, as do all of us. If fixing
>> images of teeth helps them do so, I think that's great.
> 
> Well it does depend on the reason doesn't it.
> Just supose you were hiring a model from a catologue of some sort.
> You foudn this beautiful girl who looked  exactly right for the photo shoot you wanted so you
email her and a week later she arrives, trouble is the photoshopped image yuo based yuor assemement
on isn't quite right.
> In fact this slime-sleek girl is actually over weight if not obese, only has half her teeth, her
hair is al matted and she has tatooes on her body which you didn't see in the picture, but donl;t
worry with a day or so photoshopping you can get her to look exactly like you want.
> 
> Then there's the peer pressure  your next door daughters parents gave  $500 to have her picture
taken and 'adjusted' so you should do the same.
> Not that it's the photographers problem.
> 
> But I do see this as another job NOT necessarily a photographers but a graphic artists job.
> 
> 
> 

In the hair salon down the street, there is a sign in the window: "I'm a 
Beautician, not a Magician."

After seeing some of the clients, I suspect the owner should invest in a 
hat and rabbit. It might be easier.


-- 
Ken Hart
kwhart1@frontier.com 

	
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From: PeterN <"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Photoshopping school photos
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On 11/30/2017 5:13 PM, Ken Hart wrote:

<snip>

>>
> 
> In the hair salon down the street, there is a sign in the window: "I'm a 
> Beautician, not a Magician."
> 
> After seeing some of the clients, I suspect the owner should invest in a 
> hat and rabbit. It might be easier.
> 
> 
Things are rarely what they seem..............
We went to a reception ans were sitting at a table with a young lady who 
was scarfing Italian pastries, at an extremely rapid rate. I didn't 
mention that she was a HIGHLY PAID salesperson for a weight loss 
company. I rarely resist temptation, and threatened to make a video of 
her desert eating habits, and put it in a competitors store window.
She had no sense of humor, and hasn't spoken to me since.

-- 
PeterN 

	
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In article<ovt4ro02opm@news3.newsguy.com>, PeterN
<"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net> wrote:

> We went to a reception ans were sitting at a table with a young lady who 
> was scarfing Italian pastries, at an extremely rapid rate.

she was hungry or the pastries were delicious. probably both.

> I didn't 
> mention that she was a HIGHLY PAID salesperson for a weight loss 
> company. 

so what? they need to eat just like everyone else.

> I rarely resist temptation, and threatened to make a video of 
> her desert eating habits, and put it in a competitors store window.
> She had no sense of humor, and hasn't spoken to me since.

incredibly smart lady. 

	
Subject: Re: Photoshopping school photos
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From: PeterN <"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Photoshopping school photos
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2017 10:52:32 -0500
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On 12/2/2017 6:46 AM, nospam wrote:
> In article<ovt4ro02opm@news3.newsguy.com>, PeterN
> <"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net> wrote:
> 
>> We went to a reception ans were sitting at a table with a young lady who
>> was scarfing Italian pastries, at an extremely rapid rate.
> 
> she was hungry or the pastries were delicious. probably both.

You have just given us tons of information regarding your understanding 
of English usage, impulse control, and regard for others.

> 
>> I didn't
>> mention that she was a HIGHLY PAID salesperson for a weight loss
>> company.
> 
> so what? they need to eat just like everyone else.



> 
>> I rarely resist temptation, and threatened to make a video of
>> her desert eating habits, and put it in a competitors store window.
>> She had no sense of humor, and hasn't spoken to me since.
> 
> incredibly smart lady.
> 

Since you consider her smart for that, following your own reasoning, 
regarding intelligence it's easy to figure out where that puts you on 
the intelligence scale. you must even think nobody noticed your context 
snip.

-- 
PeterN 

	
From: Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Photoshopping school photos
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From: Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Photoshopping school photos
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On Fri, 1 Dec 2017 21:57:57 -0500, PeterN
<"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net> wrote:

>On 11/30/2017 5:13 PM, Ken Hart wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>>>
>> 
>> In the hair salon down the street, there is a sign in the window: "I'm a 
>> Beautician, not a Magician."
>> 
>> After seeing some of the clients, I suspect the owner should invest in a 
>> hat and rabbit. It might be easier.
>> 
>> 
>Things are rarely what they seem..............
>We went to a reception ans were sitting at a table with a young lady who 
>was scarfing Italian pastries, at an extremely rapid rate. I didn't 
>mention that she was a HIGHLY PAID salesperson for a weight loss 
>company. I rarely resist temptation, and threatened to make a video of 
>her desert eating habits, and put it in a competitors store window.
>She had no sense of humor, and hasn't spoken to me since.

You shouldn't joke about food to these people.
-- 

Regards,

Eric Stevens 

	
From: PeterN <peter.new@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Photoshopping school photos
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From: PeterN <peter.new@verizon.net>
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Subject: Re: Photoshopping school photos
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2017 11:48:06 -0500
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On 12/2/2017 6:21 PM, Eric Stevens wrote:
> On Fri, 1 Dec 2017 21:57:57 -0500, PeterN
> <"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net> wrote:
> 
>> On 11/30/2017 5:13 PM, Ken Hart wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> In the hair salon down the street, there is a sign in the window: "I'm a
>>> Beautician, not a Magician."
>>>
>>> After seeing some of the clients, I suspect the owner should invest in a
>>> hat and rabbit. It might be easier.
>>>
>>>
>> Things are rarely what they seem..............
>> We went to a reception ans were sitting at a table with a young lady who
>> was scarfing Italian pastries, at an extremely rapid rate. I didn't
>> mention that she was a HIGHLY PAID salesperson for a weight loss
>> company. I rarely resist temptation, and threatened to make a video of
>> her desert eating habits, and put it in a competitors store window.
>> She had no sense of humor, and hasn't spoken to me since.
> 
> You shouldn't joke about food to these people.
> 

She knew us for over fifteen years at the time. Anyone who knew me that 
long, and would take offense at a comment like that, wasn't a real 
friend. One of my daughters is still friends with one of her sons.

-- 
PeterN 

	
From: Mayayana <mayayana@invalid.nospam>
Subject: Re: Photoshopping school photos
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From: "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Photoshopping school photos
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"PeterN" <"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net> wrote

| Event and portrait photographers have been fixing blemishes for years.
| In the digital age a lot of people tend to regard photographers as a
| commodity, and not as craftsman and artists. Photographers are entitled
| to make an honest living. They need to eat, as do all of us. If fixing
| images of teeth helps them do so, I think that's great.

  Sure. Though I was not aware that such things
were being done at the level of school photos.

   I was only pointing out that this seems to be
neither the realm of the photographer nor of the
graphic artist. Like "fixing redeye", it's become a
one-click operation. I imagine publishing companies
probably have very advanced stuff to do it, so
that only one click give a movie star hips,
bright blue eyes, and air-brushed skin, while
thinning her chin to "feminize", maybe reshaping
her nose, etc. The program I got for free with PSP
claims to do most of that. I can hardly imagine
what Cosmo must use. 

	
From: Whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Photoshopping school photos
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On Thursday, 30 November 2017 15:06:31 UTC, Mayayana  wrote:
> "PeterN" <"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net> wrote
> 
> | Event and portrait photographers have been fixing blemishes for years.
> | In the digital age a lot of people tend to regard photographers as a
> | commodity, and not as craftsman and artists. Photographers are entitled
> | to make an honest living. They need to eat, as do all of us. If fixing
> | images of teeth helps them do so, I think that's great.
> 
>   Sure. Though I was not aware that such things
> were being done at the level of school photos.

Me niether, but then again school photos have always felt like a bit of a con.
Why do we need these group photos, if the school wants them then let the school pay for them,
especailly if they want every students blemishes removed.

That's how michael jackson started wasn't it, a bit more brightness and a bit less contrast  ;-)
To me it seems wrong that anyone has to pay for photos they don't want manupulated or not.


>    I was only pointing out that this seems to be
> neither the realm of the photographer nor of the
> graphic artist. Like "fixing redeye", it's become a
> one-click operation. I imagine publishing companies
> probably have very advanced stuff to do it, so
> that only one click give a movie star hips,
> bright blue eyes, and air-brushed skin, while
> thinning her chin to "feminize", maybe reshaping
> her nose, etc. The program I got for free with PSP
> claims to do most of that. I can hardly imagine
> what Cosmo must use. 

	
From: Ken Hart <kwhart1@frontier.com>
Subject: Re: Photoshopping school photos
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From: Ken Hart <kwhart1@frontier.com>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Photoshopping school photos
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 17:16:06 -0500
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On 11/30/2017 10:05 AM, Mayayana wrote:
> "PeterN" <"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net> wrote
> 
> | Event and portrait photographers have been fixing blemishes for years.
> | In the digital age a lot of people tend to regard photographers as a
> | commodity, and not as craftsman and artists. Photographers are entitled
> | to make an honest living. They need to eat, as do all of us. If fixing
> | images of teeth helps them do so, I think that's great.
> 
>    Sure. Though I was not aware that such things
> were being done at the level of school photos.
> 
>     I was only pointing out that this seems to be
> neither the realm of the photographer nor of the
> graphic artist. Like "fixing redeye", it's become a
> one-click operation. I imagine publishing companies
> probably have very advanced stuff to do it, so
> that only one click give a movie star hips,
> bright blue eyes, and air-brushed skin, while
> thinning her chin to "feminize", maybe reshaping
> her nose, etc. The program I got for free with PSP
> claims to do most of that. I can hardly imagine
> what Cosmo must use.
> 
>   
> 
> 
Once upon a time, skilled portrait photographers could handle most of 
those things with creative lighting and posing.

-- 
Ken Hart
kwhart1@frontier.com 

	
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In article <ovpvv5$i99$2@gioia.aioe.org>, Ken Hart<kwhart1@frontier.com> wrote:

> >     I was only pointing out that this seems to be
> > neither the realm of the photographer nor of the
> > graphic artist. Like "fixing redeye", it's become a
> > one-click operation. I imagine publishing companies
> > probably have very advanced stuff to do it, so
> > that only one click give a movie star hips,
> > bright blue eyes, and air-brushed skin, while
> > thinning her chin to "feminize", maybe reshaping
> > her nose, etc. The program I got for free with PSP
> > claims to do most of that. I can hardly imagine
> > what Cosmo must use.
> > 
> > 
> Once upon a time, skilled portrait photographers could handle most of 
> those things with creative lighting and posing.

they still can. 

	
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From: PeterN <"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Photoshopping school photos
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 21:59:17 -0500
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On 11/30/2017 5:16 PM, Ken Hart wrote:
> On 11/30/2017 10:05 AM, Mayayana wrote:
>> "PeterN" <"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net> wrote
>>
>> | Event and portrait photographers have been fixing blemishes for years.
>> | In the digital age a lot of people tend to regard photographers as a
>> | commodity, and not as craftsman and artists. Photographers are entitled
>> | to make an honest living. They need to eat, as do all of us. If fixing
>> | images of teeth helps them do so, I think that's great.
>>
>>    Sure. Though I was not aware that such things
>> were being done at the level of school photos.
>>
>>     I was only pointing out that this seems to be
>> neither the realm of the photographer nor of the
>> graphic artist. Like "fixing redeye", it's become a
>> one-click operation. I imagine publishing companies
>> probably have very advanced stuff to do it, so
>> that only one click give a movie star hips,
>> bright blue eyes, and air-brushed skin, while
>> thinning her chin to "feminize", maybe reshaping
>> her nose, etc. The program I got for free with PSP
>> claims to do most of that. I can hardly imagine
>> what Cosmo must use.
>>
>>
>>
> Once upon a time, skilled portrait photographers could handle most of 
> those things with creative lighting and posing.
> 

There must be some who still can.

-- 
PeterN 

	
From: Sandman <mr@sandman.net>
Subject: Re: OT: Photoshopping school photos
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From: Sandman <mr@sandman.net>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: OT: Photoshopping school photos
Date: 1 Dec 2017 18:21:44 GMT
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In article<krju1d5e8j478cuojq3ro0opppqkoqii5f@4ax.com>, Tony Cooper wrote:

> Those of us who live in the US are familiar with "school picture
> day". Once a year, primary, middle, and high school students have
> their photographs taken. The photos are used in the yearbook (if the
> school publishes one) and prints are available to purchased.

Same in Sweden, and probably most of western civilisation. :)

> In my day, the students were hustled through the procedure and the
> resulting photo was actually a photograph of the student.

> Today, school photographers offer editing-at-a-cost. The local
> photographer charges $20 to whiten teeth, whiten the whites of the
> eyes, and remove minor blemishes. Other, more extensive services are
> available. If all the services are taken, the amount could be as
> much as $240. That might include taking braces off, restoring
> missing teeth, removal of tan lines, adjustments to the hair, etc.

Well, they've got to make money, ey? With semipro-level cameras in the hands 
of everyone, just a plain old photo is less desirable and school photo 
businesses have surely plummeted. 

In my time, you bought sheets of those photos and cut them up and traded 
photos with your class mates, and everyone had a pack of printed photos of 
their school mates.

Kids today don't have to do that, with instagram, snapchat and whatnot at 
their fingertips. So they have to appeal to the parents how may want a more 
professional looking photo of their kids, and since the rushed-through 
parameter is still the same, they aren't well-lit studio photos to begin 
with, so with a fee, they can fix the images to look more professional.

> I've used "Photoshopping" in the Subject line, but some other
> software may be used. Adobe, of course, discourages the use of the
> word "Photoshopping", and - of course - using it as a generic term
> for editing a photograph with software. If they're reading, I
> apologize.

Mind you, Adobe probably *loves* that "photoshopping" is a verb and a 
household name. Sure, it means that whenever someone uses some other software 
to retouch an image it's still called "photoshopped" and that's trademark 
degeneration (like Jeep or Kleenex), but at the same time, Google thrived on 
the "verbification" of their trademark. In the end, I think it does Adobe 
mostly good. They still discourage it in their trademark guidelines, which 
you need not adhere to :)

-- 
Sandman 

	
Subject: Re: OT: Photoshopping school photos
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From: PeterN <"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: OT: Photoshopping school photos
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 20:26:06 -0500
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On 12/1/2017 1:21 PM, Sandman wrote:

<snip>


> 
> Mind you, Adobe probably *loves* that "photoshopping" is a verb and a
> household name. Sure, it means that whenever someone uses some other software
> to retouch an image it's still called "photoshopped" and that's trademark
> degeneration (like Jeep or Kleenex), but at the same time, Google thrived on
> the "verbification" of their trademark. In the end, I think it does Adobe
> mostly good. They still discourage it in their trademark guidelines, which
> you need not adhere to :)
> 
Don't be so sure.

<http://scholarship.law.wm.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2356&...

-- 
PeterN 

	
From: Whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Photoshopping school photos
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Subject: Re: OT: Photoshopping school photos
From: Whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com>
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On Friday, 1 December 2017 18:21:53 UTC, Sandman  wrote:
> In article<krju1d5e8j478cuojq3ro0opppqkoqii5f@4ax.com>, Tony Cooper wrote:
> 
> > Those of us who live in the US are familiar with "school picture
> > day". Once a year, primary, middle, and high school students have
> > their photographs taken. The photos are used in the yearbook (if the
> > school publishes one) and prints are available to purchased.
> 
> Same in Sweden, and probably most of western civilisation. :)

Yes seems very likely, such group photos have been taken almost since the camera was invented people
have wanted group photos.

 
> > In my day, the students were hustled through the procedure and the
> > resulting photo was actually a photograph of the student.
> 
> > Today, school photographers offer editing-at-a-cost. The local
> > photographer charges $20 to whiten teeth, whiten the whites of the
> > eyes, and remove minor blemishes. Other, more extensive services are
> > available. If all the services are taken, the amount could be as
> > much as $240. That might include taking braces off, restoring
> > missing teeth, removal of tan lines, adjustments to the hair, etc.
> 
> Well, they've got to make money, ey? 

But from who, it's the school that wants the photos NOT the parents usualy as if they want a photo
of thier kid they'll take them.
Of course in the past before everyone could afford a camera in may have been differnt.
 

>With semipro-level cameras in the hands 
> of everyone, just a plain old photo is less desirable and school photo 
> businesses have surely plummeted. 

Sometimes I do see a person[1] taking pictures of kids in a shopping centre
but the customers seem to be few.
 
> 
> In my time, you bought sheets of those photos and cut them up and traded 
> photos with your class mates, and everyone had a pack of printed photos of 
> their school mates.

Nothing like that happened at my school regarding swapping photos of the class.
 
> 
> Kids today don't have to do that, with instagram, snapchat and whatnot at 
> their fingertips. So they have to appeal to the parents how may want a more 
> professional looking photo of their kids, and since the rushed-through 
> parameter is still the same, they aren't well-lit studio photos to begin 
> with, so with a fee, they can fix the images to look more professional.

They'll always be some that want this sort of thingf I just think it's less nowerdays.


> 
> > I've used "Photoshopping" in the Subject line, but some other
> > software may be used. Adobe, of course, discourages the use of the
> > word "Photoshopping", and - of course - using it as a generic term
> > for editing a photograph with software. If they're reading, I
> > apologize.
> 
> Mind you, Adobe probably *loves* that "photoshopping" is a verb and a 
> household name. Sure, it means that whenever someone uses some other software 
> to retouch an image it's still called "photoshopped" and that's trademark 
> degeneration (like Jeep or Kleenex),

or hoover is the best/most common one.

> but at the same time, Google thrived on 
> the "verbification" of their trademark. In the end, I think it does Adobe 
> mostly good. They still discourage it in their trademark guidelines, which 
> you need not adhere to :)

I agree, I can't see why adobe would be concerned by everyone advertising their product for them,
until photoshopping becomes a dirty word anyway.


> 
> -- 
> Sandman

[1] Legally,  I'm not talking about the perve in the bushes. 

	
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Subject: Re: OT: Photoshopping school photos
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Subject: Re: OT: Photoshopping school photos
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On 2017-12-04 12:01:45 +0000, Whisky-dave said:

>> Same in Sweden, and probably most of western civilisation. :)

Hi Sandy! How did ya get out of me kill file? Kille any elks lately, up 
there in the wild North East?
-- 
teleportation kills 

	
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From: Sandman <mr@sandman.net>
Subject: Re: Re: OT: Photoshopping school photos
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In article<7dec1f76-b44e-4d9d-a91f-295128f21443@googlegroups.com>, Whisky-
dave wrote:

> > > Andreas Skitsnack:
> > > In my day, the students were hustled through the procedure and
> > > the resulting photo was actually a photograph of the student.
> > > Today, school photographers offer editing-at-a-cost. The local
> > > photographer charges $20 to whiten teeth, whiten the whites of
> > > the eyes, and remove minor blemishes. Other, more extensive
> > > services are available. If all the services are taken, the
> > > amount could be as much as $240. That might include taking
> > > braces off, restoring missing teeth, removal of tan lines,
> > > adjustments to the hair, etc.
> > 
> > Sandman:
> > Well, they've got to make money, ey?
> 
> But from who, it's the school that wants the photos NOT the parents
> usualy as if they want a photo of thier kid they'll take them.

"Take them?" This has always been a service a local photo studio does for the 
school in order to make money from parents buying prints. 

> > Sandman:
> > In my time, you bought sheets of those photos and cut them up and
> > traded photos with your class mates, and everyone had a pack of
> > printed photos of their school mates.
> 
> Nothing like that happened at my school regarding swapping photos of
> the class.

Cool.

> > Sandman:
> > Kids today don't have to do that, with instagram, snapchat and
> > whatnot at their fingertips. So they have to appeal to the parents
> > how may want a more professional looking photo of their kids, and
> > since the rushed-through parameter is still the same, they aren't
> > well-lit studio photos to begin with, so with a fee, they can fix
> > the images to look more professional.
> 
> They'll always be some that want this sort of thingf I just think
> it's less nowerdays.

The kids don't, the parents may. For christmas gifts to grand parents etc.


-- 
Sandman