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From: RichA <rander3128@gmail.com>
Subject: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
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Subject: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
From: RichA <rander3128@gmail.com>
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From: Mayayana <mayayana@invalid.nospam>
Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
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From: "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
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"RichA"<rander3128@gmail.com> wrote

| https://petapixel.com/2017/12/11/sold-photo-adobe-stock-earned-penni...
|

    I wonder what rights the subscription
gives to people. There must be a difference
between $80 for a photo and $3 for a photo for
a month. But how does it work? If I print booklets
using this month's image at $3 I can still sell
those booklets next month. But what if I use
the image on a website? Do I have to subscribe
to that image every month?

  Their terms seem murky. From what I can gather
it seems to be something like an installment plan:

https://stock.adobe.com/plans
   You get use of the images for cheap and can use
a given number within a given month, but lose all
rights if you end the subscription. Still, unless I'm
missing something that looks pretty good, at least
for paper printing. Maybe not so good for Web
designers. A company that prints booklets could use,
say, 5 images this month and then switch next month,
never having to actually buy the images.

  Personally I usually find what I need for things like
website work at wikimedia.

  People need to realize that while they may love
Adobe software, the company is out to make money
and they've never displayed anything like warm
fuzzy love of artists. They price gouge for their products
because they have a near monopoly. Adobe have
distributed Acrobat Reader *very* aggressively in
an attempt to own the standard for office docs, so
that they can sell full Acrobat for a ridiculously high
price. They've done similar with Flash: Trying their best
to get it on every computer so that they could own
webpage standards. Flash has been the biggest security
risk online for years, but that doesn't stop them.
 When Flash began to lose popularity (and with it
the overpriced software they sold to Web developers to
work in flash) they came out with Adobe AIR. Like
Microsoft's Silverlight, it was another brash move to
popularize webpages in the form of compiled software
that they owned the tools for. (That's what Flash is.)

  And of course there's Photoshop. Charging 6 times the
price of Paint Shop Pro for nearly the same thing, and
now that they've got commercial artists hooked they've
forced them into rental.

   Adobe is also an active member
of the business Software Alliance (BSA). The BSA is
a sort of swat team that raids companies looking for
illegal licenses. Like the IRS, they offer rewards for tips
from disgruntled employees. There was a famous story
about BSA tactics in connection with Microsoft:

http://web.archive.org/web/20090707112937/http://news.cnet.com/2008...

  Member companies use the BSA to avoid getting their
own hands dirty in the media.

   Adobe is probably not the worst tech company. There
are plenty of dubious operations to choose from:
Microsoft, Apple, Facebook, Google, Amazon... None
of them seem to have a vision that goes beyond
money and megalomania. Adobe is no worse. But
love of their software is no reason to assume they're
nice people or good business partners. 

	
From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
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From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 11:32:35 -0500
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In article <p0rg46$1tqe$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Mayayana<mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:

> 
>   Personally I usually find what I need for things like
> website work at wikimedia.

in other words, you mooch off of other people's hard work.

>   People need to realize that while they may love
> Adobe software, the company is out to make money

all companies want to make money.

> and they've never displayed anything like warm
> fuzzy love of artists. 

nonsense. photoshop is designed by artists for artists.

> They price gouge for their products
> because they have a near monopoly. 

they do not price gouge.

just because you can't afford it doesn't mean it's gouging.

> Adobe have
> distributed Acrobat Reader *very* aggressively in
> an attempt to own the standard for office docs, so
> that they can sell full Acrobat for a ridiculously high
> price.

nonsense.

pdf is an iso standard and plenty of non-adobe apps can read and write
it. 

pdf is also a native graphics format for macos and ios, which means
there is *no* need for *any* third party software to read or write pdf
files on a mac or ios device, from adobe or anyone else. 

> They've done similar with Flash: Trying their best
> to get it on every computer so that they could own
> webpage standards.

flash began life at a company named macromedia and was at the time, one
of the only ways to include multimedia on web pages.

adobe purchased macromedia in 2005, *after* flash had become popular.

> Flash has been the biggest security
> risk online for years, but that doesn't stop them.

that's one of the main reasons apple refused to include support for
flash on the iphone. 

>  When Flash began to lose popularity

you can thank apple for that.

>  (and with it
> the overpriced software they sold to Web developers to
> work in flash) they came out with Adobe AIR. Like
> Microsoft's Silverlight, it was another brash move to
> popularize webpages in the form of compiled software
> that they owned the tools for. (That's what Flash is.)

nonsense, and flash is dead.

>   And of course there's Photoshop. Charging 6 times the
> price of Paint Shop Pro for nearly the same thing, and
> now that they've got commercial artists hooked they've
> forced them into rental.

more nonsense.

as usual, you are confusing the full photoshop with cheap consumer
software that can't do anywhere near as much or as easily. 

the consumer version of photoshop, called photoshop elements, is $99
msrp and usually $50-60ish if you shop around. it's comparable both in
price and features to paint shop pro and other similar consumer
graphics apps.

in other words, photoshop elements and paint shop pro are 'nearly the
same thing' for nearly the same price. no price gouging. 

the full photoshop does *much* more than consumer software and is
priced accordingly. pros can easily justify its price because it will
pay for itself.

>    Adobe is also an active member
> of the business Software Alliance (BSA). The BSA is
> a sort of swat team that raids companies looking for
> illegal licenses. 

in other words, you are advocating pirating software, just as you do
with images taken from other web sites.

photoshop was one of the most pirated apps, if not *the* most pirated
app, along with other adobe software, which is why adobe moved to
activation over a decade ago and a major reason why they currently only
offer it as subscription. while not impossible, it's *much* harder to
pirate now. 

	
From: sobriquet <dohduhdah@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
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Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
From: sobriquet <dohduhdah@yahoo.com>
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On Wednesday, December 13, 2017 at 5:32:45 PM UTC+1, nospam wrote:
> [..]
> in other words, you are advocating pirating software, just as you do
> with images taken from other web sites.
> 
> photoshop was one of the most pirated apps, if not *the* most pirated
> app, along with other adobe software, which is why adobe moved to
> activation over a decade ago and a major reason why they currently only
> offer it as subscription. while not impossible, it's *much* harder to
> pirate now.

How is it *much* harder?!

It's as easy as ever to pirate software, including
photoshop CC.

https://i.imgur.com/lnDloZF.png 

	
From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
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From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
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In article<d8ec4ebe-4153-448c-a71b-43f86105871c@googlegroups.com>,
sobriquet<dohduhdah@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > in other words, you are advocating pirating software, just as you do
> > with images taken from other web sites.
> > 
> > photoshop was one of the most pirated apps, if not *the* most pirated
> > app, along with other adobe software, which is why adobe moved to
> > activation over a decade ago and a major reason why they currently only
> > offer it as subscription. while not impossible, it's *much* harder to
> > pirate now.
> 
> How is it *much* harder?!

because it periodically pings adobe's servers to verify, versus
supplying a valid serial one time.

> It's as easy as ever to pirate software, including
> photoshop CC.

no it isn't.

that doesn't mean it's impossible, just that it's harder than it used
to be. 

	
From: sobriquet <dohduhdah@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
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Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
From: sobriquet <dohduhdah@yahoo.com>
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On Monday, December 18, 2017 at 10:08:23 PM UTC+1, nospam wrote:
> In article<d8ec4ebe-4153-448c-a71b-43f86105871c@googlegroups.com>,
> sobriquet<dohduhdah@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> > > in other words, you are advocating pirating software, just as you do
> > > with images taken from other web sites.
> > > 
> > > photoshop was one of the most pirated apps, if not *the* most pirated
> > > app, along with other adobe software, which is why adobe moved to
> > > activation over a decade ago and a major reason why they currently only
> > > offer it as subscription. while not impossible, it's *much* harder to
> > > pirate now.
> > 
> > How is it *much* harder?!
> 
> because it periodically pings adobe's servers to verify, versus
> supplying a valid serial one time.

Oh really, and you think people who come up with cracks and
patches can't figure out how to to prevent the software from doing
this?
If you download the software from a torrent site, you have the
software and you can use it and there is no need whatsoever for
the software to keep in touch with adobe.

> 
> > It's as easy as ever to pirate software, including
> > photoshop CC.
> 
> no it isn't.
> 
> that doesn't mean it's impossible, just that it's harder than it used
> to be.

I've been using pirated copies of photoshop for a long time and
I haven't noticed any difference in how hard it was to fetch a
copy from p2p, apply the crack and enjoy the software.

If it was hard there wouldn't be so many people downloading a
copy from filesharing sites. That photoshop CC 2018 version on
rutracker in the screenshot has been downloaded over 17000 times. 

	
From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
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From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
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In article<e2bafadf-81f6-45a2-bd23-34a8dc0ed858@googlegroups.com>,
sobriquet<dohduhdah@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > > > in other words, you are advocating pirating software, just as you do
> > > > with images taken from other web sites.
> > > > 
> > > > photoshop was one of the most pirated apps, if not *the* most pirated
> > > > app, along with other adobe software, which is why adobe moved to
> > > > activation over a decade ago and a major reason why they currently only
> > > > offer it as subscription. while not impossible, it's *much* harder to
> > > > pirate now.
> > > 
> > > How is it *much* harder?!
> > 
> > because it periodically pings adobe's servers to verify, versus
> > supplying a valid serial one time.
> 
> Oh really, and you think people who come up with cracks and
> patches can't figure out how to to prevent the software from doing
> this?

i didn't say they couldn't. i said it's harder.

> If you download the software from a torrent site, you have the
> software and you can use it and there is no need whatsoever for
> the software to keep in touch with adobe.

if you download cracked software, it's already cracked.

> > > It's as easy as ever to pirate software, including
> > > photoshop CC.
> > 
> > no it isn't.
> > 
> > that doesn't mean it's impossible, just that it's harder than it used
> > to be.
> 
> I've been using pirated copies of photoshop for a long time 

we know that.

> and
> I haven't noticed any difference in how hard it was to fetch a
> copy from p2p, apply the crack and enjoy the software.

fetching an already cracked app is not the same as figuring out the
crack.

> If it was hard there wouldn't be so many people downloading a
> copy from filesharing sites. That photoshop CC 2018 version on
> rutracker in the screenshot has been downloaded over 17000 times.

17000 is nothing. 

	
From: sobriquet <dohduhdah@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
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Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
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On Monday, December 18, 2017 at 10:31:29 PM UTC+1, nospam wrote:
> In article<e2bafadf-81f6-45a2-bd23-34a8dc0ed858@googlegroups.com>,
> sobriquet<dohduhdah@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> > > > > in other words, you are advocating pirating software, just as you do
> > > > > with images taken from other web sites.
> > > > > 
> > > > > photoshop was one of the most pirated apps, if not *the* most pirated
> > > > > app, along with other adobe software, which is why adobe moved to
> > > > > activation over a decade ago and a major reason why they currently only
> > > > > offer it as subscription. while not impossible, it's *much* harder to
> > > > > pirate now.
> > > > 
> > > > How is it *much* harder?!
> > > 
> > > because it periodically pings adobe's servers to verify, versus
> > > supplying a valid serial one time.
> > 
> > Oh really, and you think people who come up with cracks and
> > patches can't figure out how to to prevent the software from doing
> > this?
> 
> i didn't say they couldn't. i said it's harder.

Harder? You mean they had to drink an extra cup of coffee to figure
out how to crack it?

> 
> > If you download the software from a torrent site, you have the
> > software and you can use it and there is no need whatsoever for
> > the software to keep in touch with adobe.
> 
> if you download cracked software, it's already cracked.

No it's not. You install the uncracked software as a trial version
and then you apply the crack.

> 
> > > > It's as easy as ever to pirate software, including
> > > > photoshop CC.
> > > 
> > > no it isn't.
> > > 
> > > that doesn't mean it's impossible, just that it's harder than it used
> > > to be.
> > 
> > I've been using pirated copies of photoshop for a long time 
> 
> we know that.
> 
> > and
> > I haven't noticed any difference in how hard it was to fetch a
> > copy from p2p, apply the crack and enjoy the software.
> 
> fetching an already cracked app is not the same as figuring out the
> crack.

Well, that's basically the idea of filesharing as it applies to
software. Someone cracks it and then all the other people can use
that crack and they don't have to waste time and energy coming up
with their own crack.

> 
> > If it was hard there wouldn't be so many people downloading a
> > copy from filesharing sites. That photoshop CC 2018 version on
> > rutracker in the screenshot has been downloaded over 17000 times.
> 
> 17000 is nothing.

It's just the latest version.. older versions have been downloaded
nearly 100000 times (like photoshop CC 2017).
If you add it all up (rutracker is just one of the many torrent
sites out there) it's millions of people enjoying the cracked
software. So it's not hard at all to pirate photoshop CC. 

	
From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
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From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2017 16:46:32 -0500
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In article<9560d20e-5bc1-42d0-8be3-8a72bfe6bb30@googlegroups.com>,
sobriquet<dohduhdah@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > 
> > i didn't say they couldn't. i said it's harder.
> 
> Harder? You mean they had to drink an extra cup of coffee to figure
> out how to crack it?

much more than that.

photoshop 7, before adobe added activation and long before creative
cloud subscriptions, needed only a valid serial number, which were
widely distributed.

photoshop cc pings adobe's servers to verify it's active, so that check
must be spoofed somehow, which is more work than just typing in a known
valid serial number. 

	
From: sobriquet <dohduhdah@yahoo.com>
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Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
From: sobriquet <dohduhdah@yahoo.com>
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Print Article
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On Monday, December 18, 2017 at 10:46:38 PM UTC+1, nospam wrote:
> In article<9560d20e-5bc1-42d0-8be3-8a72bfe6bb30@googlegroups.com>,
> sobriquet<dohduhdah@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> > > 
> > > i didn't say they couldn't. i said it's harder.
> > 
> > Harder? You mean they had to drink an extra cup of coffee to figure
> > out how to crack it?
> 
> much more than that.
> 
> photoshop 7, before adobe added activation and long before creative
> cloud subscriptions, needed only a valid serial number, which were
> widely distributed.
> 
> photoshop cc pings adobe's servers to verify it's active, so that check
> must be spoofed somehow, which is more work than just typing in a known
> valid serial number.

Whatever. Given the numbers of people enjoying a cracked version of adobe photoshop CC, it's
obviously easy to pirate and it seems that their
anti-piracy measures aren't terribly effective at preventing this. 

	
From: Mayayana <mayayana@invalid.nospam>
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Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
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"sobriquet"<dohduhdah@yahoo.com> wrote

| I've been using pirated copies of photoshop for a long time

  I wouldn't go around talking about it if I were you.
Though I wonder how much Adobe care. Like MS Office,
they make their money by pricegouging commercial
customers for an industry-standard product. For those
customers, the high cost of using Adobe pays for itself.
Most others are unlikely to use it. (Aside from a few
suckers like nospam who think the only way to edit
photos properly is to buy the very latest version of
PS.)

  Another way of putting that: If you made money from
using PS then using it illegally wouldn't be worth the risk.
If you don't make money from it then you're not likely
to ever be an Adobe customer. I wouldn't be surprised
if a lot of college students use it illegally. And I wouldn't
be surprised if Adobe likes that. As Bill Gates once said
about China: "If they're going to steal software we'd
rather they steal our software. We'll get them to pay for
it later." 

	
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Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
From: sobriquet <dohduhdah@yahoo.com>
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On Monday, December 18, 2017 at 11:18:23 PM UTC+1, Mayayana wrote:
> "sobriquet"<dohduhdah@yahoo.com> wrote
> 
> | I've been using pirated copies of photoshop for a long time
> 
>   I wouldn't go around talking about it if I were you.

Well, we've had long discussions about the morality of copyright
vs the morality of sharing information, so you know how I feel
about the issue (i.e. all numbers belong to the public domain).

> Though I wonder how much Adobe care. Like MS Office,
> they make their money by pricegouging commercial
> customers for an industry-standard product. For those
> customers, the high cost of using Adobe pays for itself.
> Most others are unlikely to use it. (Aside from a few
> suckers like nospam who think the only way to edit
> photos properly is to buy the very latest version of
> PS.)
> 
>   Another way of putting that: If you made money from
> using PS then using it illegally wouldn't be worth the risk.
> If you don't make money from it then you're not likely
> to ever be an Adobe customer. I wouldn't be surprised
> if a lot of college students use it illegally. And I wouldn't
> be surprised if Adobe likes that. As Bill Gates once said
> about China: "If they're going to steal software we'd
> rather they steal our software. We'll get them to pay for
> it later."

In the near future all work can be done by robots anyway and
at that point when there is such an abundance of material wealth
it no longer makes sense to use money (since monetary value
indicates relative scarcity).

Some people might enjoy inequality and think it's a good thing
that there is a limited group of people enjoying a
disproportionate share of the wealth and resources, while there
is a much larger group of people living on a marginal or no
income, but I think online filesharing is a kind of omen for
the future economy where there is no longer any scarcity and
people don't ascribe great significance to outdated notions
of ownership and property.

If you have a lot of money, you can buy all software you like,
and if you barely have enough money to afford a computer and
an internet connection, you can download all software (cracked
or public domain) for free.
So filesharing kind of levels the playing field and affords
everybody an equal opportunity to enjoy an abundance of
software/content, regardless of their socio-economic status. 

	
From: Mayayana <mayayana@invalid.nospam>
Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
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"sobriquet"<dohduhdah@yahoo.com> wrote

| >   I wouldn't go around talking about it if I were you.
|
| Well, we've had long discussions about the morality of copyright
| vs the morality of sharing information, so you know how I feel
| about the issue (i.e. all numbers belong to the public domain).
|

   I wasn't making a moral statement. Just
practical. It's not wise to advertise that you're
breaking the law. Adobe has a lot more lawyers
and congressmen than you do. That's just how
it works.

| In the near future all work can be done by robots anyway and
| at that point when there is such an abundance of material wealth
| it no longer makes sense to use money (since monetary value
| indicates relative scarcity).
|

    People actually thought that back in the 50s
and 60s. Technology would mean less work to do.
We'd all get a break. One Juliet Schor wrote an
interesting book about it called The Overworked
American. She made a fascinating claim: That the
microwave is the only appliance that's reduced
work time. For instance, we used to have to scrub
our clothes clean, but we didn't wash them nearly
so often. As our lives became easier we found ways
to make them harder -- manufacturing sense of
purpose.

  She also talked about the popular idea that technology
would make our lives easier. People expected we could
all move to 3-day work weeks. But it's not that simple.

* We make our lives more busy for sense of purpose.
People get bored and most people get into trouble if
they have free time.

* Economic changes have resulted in a greater imbalance
between rich and poor. There's less work to do, yet the
standard of living has gone down. Plutocrats have bought
the gov't in many countries, including, increasingly, the US.
This week's tax bill is intended to widen that gap.

* The great reduction in the need for housework and
manual labor has meant that women can now do most
jobs and often have free time. That's resulted in profound
gender role changes. The current sexual harassment
craze is part of that, as we try to work out functional
roles and standards for child-raising with the nuclear
family no longer being critical to survival. Will we
socialize child-raising? Will women take it over, with
taxes to support them? Right now it's becoming a
pastime for the rich. Upper middle class women have
children, with or without a husband, and pay low-wage
helpers to raise them. The helpers, in turn, can't
afford to have kids.

* Changes in technology also bring changes in costs.
Cars are more expensive due to improved safety. Houses
are more expensive due to complicated permitting,
safety regulations, etc.

 That's just scratching the surface. But basically, we've
already arrived in the Golden Age of leisure and it turns
out to be not all it's cracked up to be. Lots of people
doing pointless work. Lots of poverty. Lots of planned
obsolescence. We yak about the environment yet we've
created an economy that's increasingly dependent on
disposable items. From diapers to windows -- nothing's
designed to last. Use it and throw it away.
  I grew up in the 60s and early 70s. Life was much
easier then. A janitor could own a house and raise a
family. These days a janitor will probably need to share
rent on a 4-bedroom apt with 3 other people.

  In a very basic, practical sense we no longer need to
work nearly so much. But that just hasn't panned out
in practice. 

	
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Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
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From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
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In article <p19huo$15ei$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Mayayana<mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:

>   I grew up in the 60s and early 70s. Life was much
> easier then. A janitor could own a house and raise a
> family. These days a janitor will probably need to share
> rent on a 4-bedroom apt with 3 other people.

these days, a janitor can write an ios/android app in their spare time
and likely cease being a janitor. that could *never* have happened in
the 60s or 70s. there are *so* many more opportunities than ever
before.

or they could take classes while working as a janitor:
<https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/college-game-plan/custodian-michael-...
dreuil-lands-engineering-job-after-getting-degree-54-n596336>
  A college custodian who cleaned classrooms at night and learned the
  intricacies of mechanical engineering during the day will soon hang
  up his janitor's mop for good.

  Michael Vaudreuil, 54, graduated from Worcester Polytechnic Institute
  in Massachusetts in May after eight years of taking classes in
  addition to working his graveyard shift. Now the unlikely college
  grad has another feather in his cap 

	
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Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
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On Tuesday, December 19, 2017 at 12:11:27 AM UTC+1, Mayayana wrote:
> "sobriquet"<dohduhdah@yahoo.com> wrote
> 
> | >   I wouldn't go around talking about it if I were you.
> |
> | Well, we've had long discussions about the morality of copyright
> | vs the morality of sharing information, so you know how I feel
> | about the issue (i.e. all numbers belong to the public domain).
> |
> 
>    I wasn't making a moral statement. Just
> practical. It's not wise to advertise that you're
> breaking the law. Adobe has a lot more lawyers
> and congressmen than you do. That's just how
> it works.

Lawyers and congressmen are irrelevant. They can't make
pigs fly or make water running uphill instead of downhill.
So they can pretend that numbers can be owned and sold
like tangible commodities, but the reality of the
situation will always be that people share numbers
indiscriminately, since numbers inherently have this
property of not being scarce.

> 
> | In the near future all work can be done by robots anyway and
> | at that point when there is such an abundance of material wealth
> | it no longer makes sense to use money (since monetary value
> | indicates relative scarcity).
> |
> 
>     People actually thought that back in the 50s
> and 60s. Technology would mean less work to do.
> We'd all get a break. One Juliet Schor wrote an
> interesting book about it called The Overworked
> American. She made a fascinating claim: That the
> microwave is the only appliance that's reduced
> work time. For instance, we used to have to scrub
> our clothes clean, but we didn't wash them nearly
> so often. As our lives became easier we found ways
> to make them harder -- manufacturing sense of
> purpose.
> 
>   She also talked about the popular idea that technology
> would make our lives easier. People expected we could
> all move to 3-day work weeks. But it's not that simple.
> 
> * We make our lives more busy for sense of purpose.
> People get bored and most people get into trouble if
> they have free time.
> 
> * Economic changes have resulted in a greater imbalance
> between rich and poor. There's less work to do, yet the
> standard of living has gone down. Plutocrats have bought
> the gov't in many countries, including, increasingly, the US.
> This week's tax bill is intended to widen that gap.
> 
> * The great reduction in the need for housework and
> manual labor has meant that women can now do most
> jobs and often have free time. That's resulted in profound
> gender role changes. The current sexual harassment
> craze is part of that, as we try to work out functional
> roles and standards for child-raising with the nuclear
> family no longer being critical to survival. Will we
> socialize child-raising? Will women take it over, with
> taxes to support them? Right now it's becoming a
> pastime for the rich. Upper middle class women have
> children, with or without a husband, and pay low-wage
> helpers to raise them. The helpers, in turn, can't
> afford to have kids.
> 
> * Changes in technology also bring changes in costs.
> Cars are more expensive due to improved safety. Houses
> are more expensive due to complicated permitting,
> safety regulations, etc.
> 
>  That's just scratching the surface. But basically, we've
> already arrived in the Golden Age of leisure and it turns
> out to be not all it's cracked up to be. Lots of people
> doing pointless work. Lots of poverty. Lots of planned
> obsolescence. We yak about the environment yet we've
> created an economy that's increasingly dependent on
> disposable items. From diapers to windows -- nothing's
> designed to last. Use it and throw it away.
>   I grew up in the 60s and early 70s. Life was much
> easier then. A janitor could own a house and raise a
> family. These days a janitor will probably need to share
> rent on a 4-bedroom apt with 3 other people.
> 
>   In a very basic, practical sense we no longer need to
> work nearly so much. But that just hasn't panned out
> in practice.

Ok, so we're actually engineering artificial misery and
artificial scarcity.
Hopefully we will come to our senses soon before we fuck
up the whole environment with our collective stupidity. 

	
From: Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
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From: Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
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On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 14:34:42 -0800 (PST), sobriquet<dohduhdah@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Monday, December 18, 2017 at 11:18:23 PM UTC+1, Mayayana wrote:
>> "sobriquet"<dohduhdah@yahoo.com> wrote
>> 
>> | I've been using pirated copies of photoshop for a long time
>> 
>>   I wouldn't go around talking about it if I were you.
>
>Well, we've had long discussions about the morality of copyright
>vs the morality of sharing information, so you know how I feel
>about the issue (i.e. all numbers belong to the public domain).
>
>> Though I wonder how much Adobe care. Like MS Office,
>> they make their money by pricegouging commercial
>> customers for an industry-standard product. For those
>> customers, the high cost of using Adobe pays for itself.
>> Most others are unlikely to use it. (Aside from a few
>> suckers like nospam who think the only way to edit
>> photos properly is to buy the very latest version of
>> PS.)
>> 
>>   Another way of putting that: If you made money from
>> using PS then using it illegally wouldn't be worth the risk.
>> If you don't make money from it then you're not likely
>> to ever be an Adobe customer. I wouldn't be surprised
>> if a lot of college students use it illegally. And I wouldn't
>> be surprised if Adobe likes that. As Bill Gates once said
>> about China: "If they're going to steal software we'd
>> rather they steal our software. We'll get them to pay for
>> it later."
>
>In the near future all work can be done by robots anyway and
>at that point when there is such an abundance of material wealth
>it no longer makes sense to use money (since monetary value
>indicates relative scarcity).
>
>Some people might enjoy inequality and think it's a good thing
>that there is a limited group of people enjoying a
>disproportionate share of the wealth and resources, while there
>is a much larger group of people living on a marginal or no
>income, but I think online filesharing is a kind of omen for
>the future economy where there is no longer any scarcity and
>people don't ascribe great significance to outdated notions
>of ownership and property.
>
>If you have a lot of money, you can buy all software you like,
>and if you barely have enough money to afford a computer and
>an internet connection, you can download all software (cracked
>or public domain) for free.
>So filesharing kind of levels the playing field and affords
>everybody an equal opportunity to enjoy an abundance of
>software/content, regardless of their socio-economic status.

You are a contemptible leech upon society.
-- 

Regards,

Eric Stevens 

	
From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
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From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
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In article<6rkg3ddh49uj96ual0l6ee4vddb3vnnr3u@4ax.com>, Eric Stevens<eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote:

> On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 14:34:42 -0800 (PST), sobriquet
><dohduhdah@yahoo.com> wrote:
....snip...


> You are a contemptible leech upon society.

yep. 

	
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From: PeterN <"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net>
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Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
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On 12/18/2017 6:52 PM, nospam wrote:
> In article<6rkg3ddh49uj96ual0l6ee4vddb3vnnr3u@4ax.com>, Eric Stevens
><eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote:
> 
>> On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 14:34:42 -0800 (PST), sobriquet
>><dohduhdah@yahoo.com> wrote:
> ...snip...
> 
> 
>> You are a contemptible leech upon society.
> 
> yep.
> 


OMG I agree with nospam, without reservation.

-- 
PeterN 

	
From: Mayayana <mayayana@invalid.nospam>
Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
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"PeterN" <"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net> wrote

| > yep.
| >
| OMG I agree with nospam, without reservation.
|

  That "yes" should be misspelled to accord with
cowboy movie dialect? 

	
From: Whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com>
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On Wednesday, 20 December 2017 14:28:00 UTC, Mayayana  wrote:
> "PeterN" <"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net> wrote
> 
> | > yep.
> | >
> | OMG I agree with nospam, without reservation.
> |
> 
>   That "yes" should be misspelled to accord with
> cowboy movie dialect?

Yiep ? 

	
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From: PeterN <"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net>
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On 12/20/2017 9:26 AM, Mayayana wrote:
> "PeterN" <"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net> wrote
> 
> | > yep.
> | >
> | OMG I agree with nospam, without reservation.
> |
> 
>    That "yes" should be misspelled to accord with
> cowboy movie dialect?
> 
> 

Yup! Do you feel better?

-- 
PeterN 

	
From: Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz>
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On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 11:58:25 -0500, PeterN
<"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net> wrote:

>On 12/20/2017 9:26 AM, Mayayana wrote:
>> "PeterN" <"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net> wrote
>> 
>> | > yep.
>> | >
>> | OMG I agree with nospam, without reservation.
>> |
>> 
>>    That "yes" should be misspelled to accord with
>> cowboy movie dialect?
>> 
>> 
>
>Yup! Do you feel better?

Nope.
-- 

Regards,

Eric Stevens 

	
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Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
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On Dec 18, 2017, Eric Stevens wrote
(in article<6rkg3ddh49uj96ual0l6ee4vddb3vnnr3u@4ax.com>):

> On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 14:34:42 -0800 (PST), sobriquet
><dohduhdah@yahoo.com>  wrote:
>
> > On Monday, December 18, 2017 at 11:18:23 PM UTC+1, Mayayana wrote:
> > > "sobriquet"<dohduhdah@yahoo.com> wrote
> > >
> > > > I've been using pirated copies of photoshop for a long time
> > >
> > > I wouldn't go around talking about it if I were you.
> >
> > Well, we've had long discussions about the morality of copyright
> > vs the morality of sharing information, so you know how I feel
> > about the issue (i.e. all numbers belong to the public domain).
> >
> > > Though I wonder how much Adobe care. Like MS Office,
> > > they make their money by pricegouging commercial
> > > customers for an industry-standard product. For those
> > > customers, the high cost of using Adobe pays for itself.
> > > Most others are unlikely to use it. (Aside from a few
> > > suckers like nospam who think the only way to edit
> > > photos properly is to buy the very latest version of
> > > PS.)
> > >
> > > Another way of putting that: If you made money from
> > > using PS then using it illegally wouldn't be worth the risk.
> > > If you don't make money from it then you're not likely
> > > to ever be an Adobe customer. I wouldn't be surprised
> > > if a lot of college students use it illegally. And I wouldn't
> > > be surprised if Adobe likes that. As Bill Gates once said
> > > about China: "If they're going to steal software we'd
> > > rather they steal our software. We'll get them to pay for
> > > it later."
> >
> > In the near future all work can be done by robots anyway and
> > at that point when there is such an abundance of material wealth
> > it no longer makes sense to use money (since monetary value
> > indicates relative scarcity).
> >
> > Some people might enjoy inequality and think it's a good thing
> > that there is a limited group of people enjoying a
> > disproportionate share of the wealth and resources, while there
> > is a much larger group of people living on a marginal or no
> > income, but I think online filesharing is a kind of omen for
> > the future economy where there is no longer any scarcity and
> > people don't ascribe great significance to outdated notions
> > of ownership and property.
> >
> > If you have a lot of money, you can buy all software you like,
> > and if you barely have enough money to afford a computer and
> > an internet connection, you can download all software (cracked
> > or public domain) for free.
> > So filesharing kind of levels the playing field and affords
> > everybody an equal opportunity to enjoy an abundance of
> > software/content, regardless of their socio-economic status.
>
> You are a contemptible leech upon society.

Wait for it, he is about to call you a nazi.

-- 

Regards,
Savageduck 

	
From: Mayayana <mayayana@invalid.nospam>
Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
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From: "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2017 20:43:54 -0500
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"Eric Stevens"<eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote

| >So filesharing kind of levels the playing field and affords
| >everybody an equal opportunity to enjoy an abundance of
| >software/content, regardless of their socio-economic status.
|
| You are a contemptible leech upon society.

   He's a utopian socialist. :) Probably doesn't have
to work for a living. The sad part is that the
socialists usually turn out to be the most selfish
capitalists once they get used to having a job.

   He does have a point, though. Not everyone
agreed in the early days that software should
be copyrightable. I found it very inspiring, back
in the 90s, that so many people were setting
up websites and just offering whatever they
could to "chip in". Lots of free information and
software. I did the same thing. Set up a website
and gave away things that others might find
useful. I still do. And most of the software I use
is free, written by someone who does it for the
love of it. Also, I get free information almost daily,
often provided by some anonymous person who
was just trying to be helpful.

  nospam called me a "mooch" for using wikimedia,
but that's what it's there for. Thousands of generous
people have made it possible. The same is true of
wikipedia. And Craigslist. They're all great examples
of sharing and improving peoples' lives with the Internet.
One could just as well say it's mooching to get free
info online. Yet we all do that.

   Which is not to say I think PS should be free. The
GIMP and Linux are good examples of the limits of free.
Free products are not so likely to be polished and
user-friendly, because the authors don't need to
satisfy customers. 

	
From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
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From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2017 20:47:10 -0500
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In article <p19qv4$1f8c$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Mayayana<mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:

> 
>   nospam called me a "mooch" for using wikimedia,

i never said any such thing, you lying sack of shit. 

	
From: Mayayana <mayayana@invalid.nospam>
Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
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From: "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2017 20:59:23 -0500
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"nospam"<nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote

| >   nospam called me a "mooch" for using wikimedia,
|
| i never said any such thing, you lying sack of shit.

-----------------------------------------------------
>   Personally I usually find what I need for things like
> website work at wikimedia.

in other words, you mooch off of other people's hard work.
------------------------------------------------------

  Someone seems to be using your pen name.
Interestingly, the impostor is very convincing. They
insult constantly, just like you. They talk in
circles, just like you do. They even have the same
keyboard with the broken shift key. Maybe it's
an alternate reality version of you. :) 

	
From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
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From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2017 21:23:33 -0500
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In article <p19rs6$1gce$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Mayayana<mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:

> | >   nospam called me a "mooch" for using wikimedia,
> |
> | i never said any such thing, you lying sack of shit.
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------
> >   Personally I usually find what I need for things like
> > website work at wikimedia.
> 
> in other words, you mooch off of other people's hard work.
> ------------------------------------------------------

oh yea, but that was one specific instance, not an forever
classification.

you still can redeem yourself. 

	
From: Mayayana <mayayana@invalid.nospam>
Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
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From: "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2017 08:38:16 -0500
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"nospam"<nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote

| > | >   nospam called me a "mooch" for using wikimedia,
| > |
| > | i never said any such thing, you lying sack of shit.
| >
| > -----------------------------------------------------
| > >   Personally I usually find what I need for things like
| > > website work at wikimedia.
| >
| > in other words, you mooch off of other people's hard work.
| > ------------------------------------------------------
|
| oh yea, but that was one specific instance, not an forever
| classification.
|
| you still can redeem yourself.

  Being mean to people is not a game. It's just being
mean. You demean yourself and coarsen your own
sensibility, regardless of whether it bothers the target. 

	
From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
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From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2017 11:45:29 -0500
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In article <p1b4qj$17kh$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Mayayana<mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:

> 
>   Being mean to people is not a game. It's just being
> mean. You demean yourself and coarsen your own
> sensibility, regardless of whether it bothers the target. 

think about that next time you call people 'apple seeds' and other
derogatory terms. 

	
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From: PeterN <"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
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On 12/19/2017 11:45 AM, nospam wrote:
> In article <p1b4qj$17kh$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Mayayana
><mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:
> 
>>
>>    Being mean to people is not a game. It's just being
>> mean. You demean yourself and coarsen your own
>> sensibility, regardless of whether it bothers the target.
> 
> think about that next time you call people 'apple seeds' and other
> derogatory terms.
> 

I don't consider calling someone an Appleseed if a derogatory term. I 
have some personal friends who I call Appleseeds, regularly. Yet some 
got very insulted when I mentioned I called Apple Support, instead of 
them. Also in my capacity as a stockholder, I love Appleseeds. They have 
made me and my daughters, a lot of money.

-- 
PeterN 

	
From: Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com>
Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
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Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
References: <00942a15-c476-4273-9671-c1ef61328784@googlegroups.com> <p0rg46$1tqe$1@gioia.aioe.org> <131220171132354803%nospam@nospam.invalid> <d8ec4ebe-4153-448c-a71b-43f86105871c@googlegroups.com> <181220171608156123%nospam@nospam.invalid> <e2bafadf-81f6-45a2-bd23-34a8dc0ed858@googlegroups.com> <p19er6$101g$1@gioia.aioe.org> <33e7625e-8c31-47f9-9523-6c65af05aa7c@googlegroups.com> <6rkg3ddh49uj96ual0l6ee4vddb3vnnr3u@4ax.com> <p19qv4$1f8c$1@gioia.aioe.org> <181220172047100279%nospam@nospam.invalid> <p19rs6$1gce$1@gioia.aioe.org> <181220172123331269%nospam@nospam.invalid> <p1b4qj$17kh$1@gioia.aioe.org> <191220171145292036%nospam@nospam.invalid> <p1cq8k013i9@news3.newsguy.com>
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On Dec 19, 2017, PeterN wrote
(in article<p1cq8k013i9@news3.newsguy.com>):

> On 12/19/2017 11:45 AM, nospam wrote:
> > In article<p1b4qj$17kh$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Mayayana
> ><mayayana@invalid.nospam>  wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Being mean to people is not a game. It's just being
> > > mean. You demean yourself and coarsen your own
> > > sensibility, regardless of whether it bothers the target.
> >
> > think about that next time you call people 'apple seeds' and other
> > derogatory terms.
>
> I don't consider calling someone an Appleseed if a derogatory term. I
> have some personal friends who I call Appleseeds, regularly. Yet some
> got very insulted when I mentioned I called Apple Support, instead of
> them. Also in my capacity as a stockholder, I love Appleseeds. They have
> made me and my daughters, a lot of money.

Intent on the part of the user of the term, and how it is received by the 
individual addressed are going to be the determining factors as to whether, 
or not the usage is derogatory.When I see Appleseed used, my first thought is 
that it is intended to be derogatory, and provocative.

Appleseed is not a term used by users of Apple products to describe 
themselves. It is a term used by non-Apple users to label Apple users. While 
you might not have intended your usage to be derogatory, you have used it to 
segregate/differentiate yourself from Apple users, and to establish your 
standing as somebody who uses a different OS (...and I know you own and use 
an iphone).If I were you I would stop calling your friends Appleseeds 
regardless of how good APPL has been for you.

In the case of Mayayana, and his anti-Apple bias, his usage of Appleseed is 
undoubtably, and intentionally derogatory. He has a similar anti-Adobe bias.

-- 

Regards,
Savageduck 

	
From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
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From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2017 00:29:10 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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In article<0001HW.1FEA299601123D5970000EED02CF@news.giganews.com>,
Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

> > > >
> > > > Being mean to people is not a game. It's just being
> > > > mean. You demean yourself and coarsen your own
> > > > sensibility, regardless of whether it bothers the target.
> > >
> > > think about that next time you call people 'apple seeds' and other
> > > derogatory terms.
> >
> > I don't consider calling someone an Appleseed if a derogatory term. I
> > have some personal friends who I call Appleseeds, regularly. Yet some
> > got very insulted when I mentioned I called Apple Support, instead of
> > them. Also in my capacity as a stockholder, I love Appleseeds. They have
> > made me and my daughters, a lot of money.
> 
> Intent on the part of the user of the term, and how it is received by the 
> individual addressed are going to be the determining factors as to whether, 
> or not the usage is derogatory.When I see Appleseed used, my first thought is 
> that it is intended to be derogatory, and provocative.
> 
> Appleseed is not a term used by users of Apple products to describe 
> themselves. It is a term used by non-Apple users to label Apple users. While 
> you might not have intended your usage to be derogatory, you have used it to 
> segregate/differentiate yourself from Apple users, and to establish your 
> standing as somebody who uses a different OS (...and I know you own and use 
> an iphone).If I were you I would stop calling your friends Appleseeds 
> regardless of how good APPL has been for you.
> 
> In the case of Mayayana, and his anti-Apple bias, his usage of Appleseed is 
> undoubtably, and intentionally derogatory. He has a similar anti-Adobe bias.

along with anti-microsoft, anti-google, anti-yahoo, anti-facebook,
anti-aol and many more. 

sum it up as anti-everything. 

	
From: Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com>
Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
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Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
References: <00942a15-c476-4273-9671-c1ef61328784@googlegroups.com> <p0rg46$1tqe$1@gioia.aioe.org> <131220171132354803%nospam@nospam.invalid> <d8ec4ebe-4153-448c-a71b-43f86105871c@googlegroups.com> <181220171608156123%nospam@nospam.invalid> <e2bafadf-81f6-45a2-bd23-34a8dc0ed858@googlegroups.com> <p19er6$101g$1@gioia.aioe.org> <33e7625e-8c31-47f9-9523-6c65af05aa7c@googlegroups.com> <6rkg3ddh49uj96ual0l6ee4vddb3vnnr3u@4ax.com> <p19qv4$1f8c$1@gioia.aioe.org> <181220172047100279%nospam@nospam.invalid> <p19rs6$1gce$1@gioia.aioe.org> <181220172123331269%nospam@nospam.invalid> <p1b4qj$17kh$1@gioia.aioe.org> <191220171145292036%nospam@nospam.invalid> <p1cq8k013i9@news3.newsguy.com> <0001HW.1FEA299601123D5970000EED02CF@news.giganews.com> <201220170029101376%nospam@nospam.invalid>
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On Dec 19, 2017, nospam wrote
(in article<201220170029101376%nospam@nospam.invalid>):

> In article<0001HW.1FEA299601123D5970000EED02CF@news.giganews.com>,
> Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com>  wrote:
>
> > > > >
> > > > > Being mean to people is not a game. It's just being
> > > > > mean. You demean yourself and coarsen your own
> > > > > sensibility, regardless of whether it bothers the target.
> > > >
> > > > think about that next time you call people 'apple seeds' and other
> > > > derogatory terms.
> > >
> > > I don't consider calling someone an Appleseed if a derogatory term. I
> > > have some personal friends who I call Appleseeds, regularly. Yet some
> > > got very insulted when I mentioned I called Apple Support, instead of
> > > them. Also in my capacity as a stockholder, I love Appleseeds. They have
> > > made me and my daughters, a lot of money.
> >
> > Intent on the part of the user of the term, and how it is received by the
> > individual addressed are going to be the determining factors as to whether,
> > or not the usage is derogatory.When I see Appleseed used, my first thought
> > is
> > that it is intended to be derogatory, and provocative.
> >
> > Appleseed is not a term used by users of Apple products to describe
> > themselves. It is a term used by non-Apple users to label Apple users. While
> > you might not have intended your usage to be derogatory, you have used it to
> > segregate/differentiate yourself from Apple users, and to establish your
> > standing as somebody who uses a different OS (...and I know you own and use
> > an iphone).If I were you I would stop calling your friends Appleseeds
> > regardless of how good APPL has been for you.
> >
> > In the case of Mayayana, and his anti-Apple bias, his usage of Appleseed is
> > undoubtably, and intentionally derogatory. He has a similar anti-Adobe bias.
>
> along with anti-microsoft, anti-google, anti-yahoo, anti-facebook,
> anti-aol and many more.
>
> sum it up as anti-everything.

Does that include anti-Twitter, and anti-Hupmobile?

-- 

Regards,
Savageduck 

	
From: Whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
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Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
From: Whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com>
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On Wednesday, 20 December 2017 05:39:30 UTC, Savageduck  wrote:
> On Dec 19, 2017, nospam wrote
> (in article<201220170029101376%nospam@nospam.invalid>):
> 
> > In article<0001HW.1FEA299601123D5970000EED02CF@news.giganews.com>,
> > Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com>  wrote:
> >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Being mean to people is not a game. It's just being
> > > > > > mean. You demean yourself and coarsen your own
> > > > > > sensibility, regardless of whether it bothers the target.
> > > > >
> > > > > think about that next time you call people 'apple seeds' and other
> > > > > derogatory terms.
> > > >
> > > > I don't consider calling someone an Appleseed if a derogatory term. I
> > > > have some personal friends who I call Appleseeds, regularly. Yet some
> > > > got very insulted when I mentioned I called Apple Support, instead of
> > > > them. Also in my capacity as a stockholder, I love Appleseeds. They have
> > > > made me and my daughters, a lot of money.
> > >
> > > Intent on the part of the user of the term, and how it is received by the
> > > individual addressed are going to be the determining factors as to whether,
> > > or not the usage is derogatory.When I see Appleseed used, my first thought
> > > is
> > > that it is intended to be derogatory, and provocative.
> > >
> > > Appleseed is not a term used by users of Apple products to describe
> > > themselves. It is a term used by non-Apple users to label Apple users. While
> > > you might not have intended your usage to be derogatory, you have used it to
> > > segregate/differentiate yourself from Apple users, and to establish your
> > > standing as somebody who uses a different OS (...and I know you own and use
> > > an iphone).If I were you I would stop calling your friends Appleseeds
> > > regardless of how good APPL has been for you.
> > >
> > > In the case of Mayayana, and his anti-Apple bias, his usage of Appleseed is
> > > undoubtably, and intentionally derogatory. He has a similar anti-Adobe bias.
> >
> > along with anti-microsoft, anti-google, anti-yahoo, anti-facebook,
> > anti-aol and many more.
> >
> > sum it up as anti-everything.
> 
> Does that include anti-Twitter, and anti-Hupmobile?

and what about anti-matter ! 

	
From: Mayayana <mayayana@invalid.nospam>
Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
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Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
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"Whisky-dave"<whisky.dave@gmail.com> wrote

| > Does that include anti-Twitter, and anti-Hupmobile?
|
| and what about anti-matter !
|

  Oh, dear. I wouldn't want to be against things
that matter. I've never heard of a Hupmobile.
Maybe that's some newfangled, California eco-
vehicle that SD drives? 

	
From: Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com>
Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
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On Dec 20, 2017, Mayayana wrote
(in article <p1du8k$1b98$1@gioia.aioe.org>):

> "Whisky-dave"<whisky.dave@gmail.com> wrote
>
> > > Does that include anti-Twitter, and anti-Hupmobile?
> >
> > and what about anti-matter !
>
> Oh, dear. I wouldn't want to be against things
> that matter. I've never heard of a Hupmobile.
> Maybe that's some newfangled, California eco-
> vehicle that SD drives?

So you are anti-Hupmobile. To enlighten you.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hupmobile>

-- 

Regards,
Savageduck 

	
From: Mayayana <mayayana@invalid.nospam>
Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
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Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
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"Savageduck" <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote

| <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hupmobile>
|

   Ah, your love of classic cars. I didn't think
of that. I'd thought I was joking and that
hupmobile was probably some kind of cellphone
service. 

	
From: Whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
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Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
From: Whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com>
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On Wednesday, 20 December 2017 15:06:02 UTC, Mayayana  wrote:
> "Whisky-dave"<whisky.dave@gmail.com> wrote
> 
> | > Does that include anti-Twitter, and anti-Hupmobile?
> |
> | and what about anti-matter !
> |
> 
>   Oh, dear. I wouldn't want to be against things
> that matter. 

Does anti-matter,  matter :)

>I've never heard of a Hupmobile.
> Maybe that's some newfangled, California eco-
> vehicle that SD drives?

me niether and it wasn't something I posted but I did manage to look it up as I wanted to find out
for myself.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hupmobile

It's a car that is now over 100 years old. 

	
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From: PeterN <"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net>
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Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
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On 12/20/2017 10:04 AM, Mayayana wrote:
> "Whisky-dave"<whisky.dave@gmail.com> wrote
> 
> | > Does that include anti-Twitter, and anti-Hupmobile?
> |
> | and what about anti-matter !
> |
> 
>    Oh, dear. I wouldn't want to be against things
> that matter. I've never heard of a Hupmobile.
> Maybe that's some newfangled, California eco-
> vehicle that SD drives?
> 
> 

Wish I had one today.

-- 
PeterN 

	
From: Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
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On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 03:01:12 -0800 (PST), Whisky-dave<whisky.dave@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, 20 December 2017 05:39:30 UTC, Savageduck  wrote:
>> On Dec 19, 2017, nospam wrote
>> (in article<201220170029101376%nospam@nospam.invalid>):
>> 
>> > In article<0001HW.1FEA299601123D5970000EED02CF@news.giganews.com>,
>> > Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com>  wrote:
>> >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Being mean to people is not a game. It's just being
>> > > > > > mean. You demean yourself and coarsen your own
>> > > > > > sensibility, regardless of whether it bothers the target.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > think about that next time you call people 'apple seeds' and other
>> > > > > derogatory terms.
>> > > >
>> > > > I don't consider calling someone an Appleseed if a derogatory term. I
>> > > > have some personal friends who I call Appleseeds, regularly. Yet some
>> > > > got very insulted when I mentioned I called Apple Support, instead of
>> > > > them. Also in my capacity as a stockholder, I love Appleseeds. They have
>> > > > made me and my daughters, a lot of money.
>> > >
>> > > Intent on the part of the user of the term, and how it is received by the
>> > > individual addressed are going to be the determining factors as to whether,
>> > > or not the usage is derogatory.When I see Appleseed used, my first thought
>> > > is
>> > > that it is intended to be derogatory, and provocative.
>> > >
>> > > Appleseed is not a term used by users of Apple products to describe
>> > > themselves. It is a term used by non-Apple users to label Apple users. While
>> > > you might not have intended your usage to be derogatory, you have used it to
>> > > segregate/differentiate yourself from Apple users, and to establish your
>> > > standing as somebody who uses a different OS (...and I know you own and use
>> > > an iphone).If I were you I would stop calling your friends Appleseeds
>> > > regardless of how good APPL has been for you.
>> > >
>> > > In the case of Mayayana, and his anti-Apple bias, his usage of Appleseed is
>> > > undoubtably, and intentionally derogatory. He has a similar anti-Adobe bias.
>> >
>> > along with anti-microsoft, anti-google, anti-yahoo, anti-facebook,
>> > anti-aol and many more.
>> >
>> > sum it up as anti-everything.
>> 
>> Does that include anti-Twitter, and anti-Hupmobile?
>
>and what about anti-matter !

And antidisestablishmenttarianism?

.... or antipodes?
-- 

Regards,

Eric Stevens 

	
From: Mayayana <mayayana@invalid.nospam>
Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
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"Savageduck" <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote

| In the case of Mayayana, and his anti-Apple bias, his usage of Appleseed 
is
| undoubtably, and intentionally derogatory. He has a similar anti-Adobe 
bias.
|

  No, actually, that's your bias. I just like
to call a spade a spade. Or whatever a spade would
like to be called, of course. If it wants to be called
an upside-down heart I'll humor them. But if a spade
wants to be called a club, well that's just a lie.

  These big companies spend billions to sell their
commercial propaganda and even to establish laws
in their own favor. I just try to balance the story.

  You repeatedly get ruffled by my criticism, but you
fail to notice that I say similar things about Microsoft,
Google, Amazon and Facebook. It's only your favorite
companies that you can't stand having criticized. Is
that reasonable, adult thinking, to refuse to see the
negative parts of the companies you buy from... and
to take it personally when they're criticized, just because
you own the product? I'd call such a person either a
child or a sucker.

  Fortunately, public opinion and mainstream media
are finally beginning to grasp that Big Tech is not just
some sort of whiz-bang Santa Claus bringing us more
fun toys, but are actually among the sleaziest of
companies, and have, to some extent, pulled a coup
to take over the public space and public dialogue:

https://www.wired.com/story/the-other-tech-bubble/

  The interesting thing with tech is that there's a lot
of naivety. The Google twins, Steve Jobs and his acolyte
Tim Cook, Zuck and his sidekick Sheryl... They all seem to
truly believe that they're helping society. Yet their
companies are not non-profits. (Cook threw a tantrum at
the very idea that Apple should have to pay their fair
share of corporate taxes... He's fighting with the EU even
now over his Irish cash-stashing scam, while he has his
overpriced gadgets assembled by virtual slave labor in Asia.
But the TV ads are all about a bambi-cute company
who loves you. Why should we avoid seeing those things?)

   All three companies have gone to great lengths to make
as much money as they possibly can. All three have gone
beyond basic decency to maximize the profits further.
The unique part is that they don't seem to see themselves
as hungry business competitors. They seem to honestly
believe that they're do-gooders. Then again, a do-gooder
can be the most dangerous person. They can't bear to
admit their own aggression to themselves, so in their
mind, when they wrong you it's always for your own
good.

   And yes, Microsoft have done a lot of nasty things.
Do I have to always add that qualifier when I point
out Apple's flaws? Can you also admit that Apple, and
not only Microsoft, are often sleazy? 

	
From: Whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
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On Wednesday, 20 December 2017 15:03:07 UTC, Mayayana  wrote:
> "Savageduck" <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote
> 
> | In the case of Mayayana, and his anti-Apple bias, his usage of Appleseed 
> is
> | undoubtably, and intentionally derogatory. He has a similar anti-Adobe 
> bias.
> |
> 
>   No, actually, that's your bias. I just like
> to call a spade a spade. Or whatever a spade would
> like to be called, 

A spade is a particular type of shovel with a sharpish pointed end, usually used for digging up
soil, they sometimes get confused with shovels, which have a square end.

>of course. If it wants to be called
> an upside-down heart I'll humor them. But if a spade
> wants to be called a club, well that's just a lie.

Supose it's not actually a spade do you think it wants to be called a spade ? 

	
From: Mayayana <mayayana@invalid.nospam>
Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
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Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
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"Whisky-dave"<whisky.dave@gmail.com> wrote

| >of course. If it wants to be called
| > an upside-down heart I'll humor them. But if a spade
| > wants to be called a club, well that's just a lie.
|
| Supose it's not actually a spade do you think it wants to be called a 
spade ?
|

  Who knows. I guess to be on the safe side
you should ask it its pronouns. But be careful
trying to be considerate. What if you ask a child
what he wants to be called, thinking he'll say
either Ed or Eddie, and he responds, "Thank you
for asking. I'd like to be Edward the Supreme
Space Warrior."

  Betcha might think twice about being so
considerate next time. 

	
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From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
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Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
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In article <p1e3uo$1m4k$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Mayayana<mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:

> What if you ask a child
> what he wants to be called, thinking he'll say
> either Ed or Eddie, and he responds, "Thank you
> for asking. I'd like to be Edward the Supreme
> Space Warrior."

better yet, what if he says "i'd like to be called jennifer". 

	
Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
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From: PeterN <"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2017 12:14:15 -0500
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On 12/20/2017 11:44 AM, nospam wrote:
> In article <p1e3uo$1m4k$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Mayayana
><mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:
> 
>> What if you ask a child
>> what he wants to be called, thinking he'll say
>> either Ed or Eddie, and he responds, "Thank you
>> for asking. I'd like to be Edward the Supreme
>> Space Warrior."
> 
> better yet, what if he says "i'd like to be called jennifer".
> 

I would call him Jennifer. Where's the harm.

-- 
PeterN 

	
From: Whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
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Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
From: Whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com>
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On Wednesday, 20 December 2017 16:43:09 UTC, Mayayana  wrote:
> "Whisky-dave"<whisky.dave@gmail.com> wrote
> 
> | >of course. If it wants to be called
> | > an upside-down heart I'll humor them. But if a spade
> | > wants to be called a club, well that's just a lie.
> |
> | Supose it's not actually a spade do you think it wants to be called a 
> spade ?
> |
> 
>   Who knows. 

The person you're reffering too perhaps knows or sometimes others might know.

>I guess to be on the safe side
> you should ask it its pronouns.

Some have the ability to work it out for themselves.

> But be careful
> trying to be considerate. What if you ask a child
> what he wants to be called, thinking he'll say
> either Ed or Eddie, and he responds, "Thank you
> for asking. I'd like to be Edward the Supreme
> Space Warrior."

If that's how  his friends refer to him then that'd be OK by me.
But do you think that makes him a Supreme Space Warrior.

I've had many nicknames, none of which I've given myself some are still in use I'm still called The
Doctor or tweets or admiral or cocktail dave.
 
> 
>   Betcha might think twice about being so
> considerate next time.

No. 

	
From: Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
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From: Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
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On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 07:38:04 -0800 (PST), Whisky-dave<whisky.dave@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, 20 December 2017 15:03:07 UTC, Mayayana  wrote:
>> "Savageduck" <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote
>> 
>> | In the case of Mayayana, and his anti-Apple bias, his usage of Appleseed 
>> is
>> | undoubtably, and intentionally derogatory. He has a similar anti-Adobe 
>> bias.
>> |
>> 
>>   No, actually, that's your bias. I just like
>> to call a spade a spade. Or whatever a spade would
>> like to be called, 
>
>A spade is a particular type of shovel with a sharpish pointed end, usually used for digging up
soil, they sometimes get confused with shovels, which have a square end.
>
>>of course. If it wants to be called
>> an upside-down heart I'll humor them. But if a spade
>> wants to be called a club, well that's just a lie.
>
>Supose it's not actually a spade do you think it wants to be called a spade ?
>
Both our cats are spade.
-- 

Regards,

Eric Stevens 

	
From: Whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
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On Wednesday, 20 December 2017 22:17:57 UTC, Eric Stevens  wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 07:38:04 -0800 (PST), Whisky-dave
><whisky.dave@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> >On Wednesday, 20 December 2017 15:03:07 UTC, Mayayana  wrote:
> >> "Savageduck" <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote
> >> 
> >> | In the case of Mayayana, and his anti-Apple bias, his usage of Appleseed 
> >> is
> >> | undoubtably, and intentionally derogatory. He has a similar anti-Adobe 
> >> bias.
> >> |
> >> 
> >>   No, actually, that's your bias. I just like
> >> to call a spade a spade. Or whatever a spade would
> >> like to be called, 
> >
> >A spade is a particular type of shovel with a sharpish pointed end, usually used for digging up
soil, they sometimes get confused with shovels, which have a square end.
> >
> >>of course. If it wants to be called
> >> an upside-down heart I'll humor them. But if a spade
> >> wants to be called a club, well that's just a lie.
> >
> >Supose it's not actually a spade do you think it wants to be called a spade ?
> >
> Both our cats are spade.

Strange name for two cats, is that the same reason for calling all your kids fred so you only have
to shout one name at dinner time (not that cats need calling for food)
A friends cat was called tripod because it had a leg missing due to an accident before they got it.


So now we're back on topic   tripods :-D 

	
From: Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Adobe Stock Images pays photo $0.18 for using his photo
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On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 03:32:09 -0800 (PST), Whisky-dave<whisky.dave@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, 20 December 2017 22:17:57 UTC, Eric Stevens  wrote:
>> On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 07:38:04 -0800 (PST), Whisky-dave
>><whisky.dave@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> >On Wednesday, 20 December 2017 15:03:07 UTC, Mayayana  wrote:
>> >> "Savageduck" <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote
>> >> 
>> >> | In the case of Mayayana, and his anti-Apple bias, his usage of Appleseed 
>> >> is
>> >> | undoubtably, and intentionally derogatory. He has a similar anti-Adobe 
>> >> bias.
>> >> |
>> >> 
>> >>   No, actually, that's your bias. I just like
>> >> to call a spade a spade. Or whatever a spade would
>> >> like to be called, 
>> >
>> >A spade is a particular type of shovel with a sharpish pointed end, usually used for digging up
soil, they sometimes get confused with shovels, which have a square end.
>> >
>> >>of course. If it wants to be called
>> >> an upside-down heart I'll humor them. But if a spade
>> >> wants to be called a club, well that's just a lie.
>> >
>> >Supose it's not actually a spade do you think it wants to be called a spade ?
>> >
>> Both our cats are spade.

And none of our teapots are spode.
>
>Strange name for two cats, is that the same reason for calling all your kids fred so you only have
to shout one name at dinner time (not that cats need calling for food)
>A friends cat was called tripod because it had a leg missing due to an accident before they got it.
>
>
>So now we're back on topic   tripods :-D
>
>
>
-- 

Regards,

Eric Stevens 

	
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In article <p1du31$1b0n$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Mayayana<mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:

>   These big companies spend billions to sell their
> commercial propaganda and even to establish laws
> in their own favor. I just try to balance the story.

you offer zero balance.

>   You repeatedly get ruffled by my criticism, but you
> fail to notice that I say similar things about Microsoft,
> Google, Amazon and Facebook. 

i pointed that out.

you hate *everything*.




>    All three companies have gone to great lengths to make
> as much money as they possibly can.

every company tries to do that.