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From: android <here@there.was>
Subject: The Race for The FF MILC is ON!
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From: android <here@there.was>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: The Race for The FF MILC is ON!
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2018 17:30:12 +0100
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We've heard 'bout the Nikon Z FF mount 16mm flange! Could be a 
winner... But now Canon seem to be entering the game with a FF EOS M!!! 
18mm flange but the concept is proven!!!

<http://www.canonrumors.com/canon-sends-invites-to-dealers-for-major... 


<http://tinyurl.com/yblyluqp>

What is "Flange"?

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flange_focal_distance>
-- 
teleportation kills 

	
From: Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com>
Subject: Re: The Race for The FF MILC is ON!
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On Jan 20, 2018, android wrote
(in article<fch94kF5gqmU1@mid.individual.net>):

> We've heard 'bout the Nikon Z FF mount 16mm flange! Could be a
> winner... But now Canon seem to be entering the game with a FF EOS M!!!
> 18mm flange but the concept is proven!!!
>
> <http://www.canonrumors.com/canon-sends-invites-to-dealers-for-major...
> s-presentation-next-month/>
>
> <http://tinyurl.com/yblyluqp>

I was happy enough with an APS-C DSLR, and I am happy enough with an APS-C 
MILC. If I ever find myself desiring a larger sensor I might as well go to 
MF.
>
>
> What is "Flange"?
>
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flange_focal_distance>

Some of us have already figured out what flange distance is.

-- 

Regards,
Savageduck 

	
From: android <here@there.was>
Subject: Re: The Race for The FF MILC is ON!
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From: android <here@there.was>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: The Race for The FF MILC is ON!
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2018 06:58:39 +0100
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On 2018-01-20 19:12:28 +0000, Savageduck said:

> On Jan 20, 2018, android wrote
> (in article<fch94kF5gqmU1@mid.individual.net>):
> 
>> We've heard 'bout the Nikon Z FF mount 16mm flange! Could be a
>> winner... But now Canon seem to be entering the game with a FF EOS M!!!
>> 18mm flange but the concept is proven!!!
>> 
>> <http://www.canonrumors.com/canon-sends-invites-to-dealers-for-major...
>> s-presentation-next-month/>
>> 
>> <http://tinyurl.com/yblyluqp>
> 
> I was happy enough with an APS-C DSLR, and I am happy enough with an APS-C
> MILC. If I ever find myself desiring a larger sensor I might as well go to
> MF.

MF as in medium format ain't no more sinze the new sensor is nowhere 
near 6x4.5cm but that said a Fuji GFX cost at least twice the dough of 
an Sony equivalence. 6k vs 3k GBP for the back only...

https://www.parkcameras.com/search/go?w=fujifilm+gfx

https://www.parkcameras.com/search/go?w=sony+a7riii
>> 
>> 
>> What is "Flange"?
>> 
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flange_focal_distance>
> 
> Some of us have already figured out what flange distance is.

Good for you!
-- 
teleportation kills 

	
From: Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com>
Subject: Re: The Race for The FF MILC is ON!
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Subject: Re: The Race for The FF MILC is ON!
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On Jan 20, 2018, android wrote
(in article<fciogfFfm5iU1@mid.individual.net>):

> On 2018-01-20 19:12:28 +0000, Savageduck said:
>
> > On Jan 20, 2018, android wrote
> > (in article<fch94kF5gqmU1@mid.individual.net>):
> >
> > > We've heard 'bout the Nikon Z FF mount 16mm flange! Could be a
> > > winner... But now Canon seem to be entering the game with a FF EOS M!!!
> > > 18mm flange but the concept is proven!!!
> > >
> > > <http://www.canonrumors.com/canon-sends-invites-to-dealers-for-major...
> > > les
> > > s-presentation-next-month/>
> > >
> > > <http://tinyurl.com/yblyluqp>
> >
> > I was happy enough with an APS-C DSLR, and I am happy enough with an APS-C
> > MILC. If I ever find myself desiring a larger sensor I might as well go to
> > MF.
>
> MF as in medium format ain't no more sinze the new sensor is nowhere
> near 6x4.5cm but that said a Fuji GFX cost at least twice the dough of
> an Sony equivalence. 6k vs 3k GBP for the back only...
>
> https://www.parkcameras.com/search/go?w=fujifilm+gfx
>
> https://www.parkcameras.com/search/go?w=sony+a7riii

Those are two very different cameras when it comes to sensor size among other 
things. The Sony a7R III has a FF 35.9mm x 24mm 42.2MP sensor. The Fujifilm 
GFX50S has an MF 43.8mm x 32.9mm 51.4MP sensor. That Sony could hardly be 
called an equivalence, it isn't.

If you are looking for a camera to compare the GFX50S with, you need to look 
to the Hasselblad X1D-50c. That camera has an MF 43.8mm x 32.9mm 50MP sensor. 
those two cameras are equivalents worthy of comparison.

....and if you compare prices of those two:

Fujifilm GFX50S (body): $6499.95

Hasselblad X1D-50c (body): $7995.00
>
> > >
> > >
> > > What is "Flange"?
> > >
> > > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flange_focal_distance>
> >
> > Some of us have already figured out what flange distance is.
>
> Good for you!

-- 

Regards,
Savageduck 

	
From: android <here@there.was>
Subject: Re: The Race for The FF MILC is ON!
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From: android <here@there.was>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: The Race for The FF MILC is ON!
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2018 10:04:11 +0100
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On 2018-01-21 07:26:02 +0000, Savageduck said:

> On Jan 20, 2018, android wrote
> (in article<fciogfFfm5iU1@mid.individual.net>):
> 
>> On 2018-01-20 19:12:28 +0000, Savageduck said:
>> 
>>> On Jan 20, 2018, android wrote
>>> (in article<fch94kF5gqmU1@mid.individual.net>):
>>> 
>>>> We've heard 'bout the Nikon Z FF mount 16mm flange! Could be a
>>>> winner... But now Canon seem to be entering the game with a FF EOS M!!!
>>>> 18mm flange but the concept is proven!!!
>>>> 
>>>> <http://www.canonrumors.com/canon-sends-invites-to-dealers-for-major...
>>>> les
>>>> s-presentation-next-month/>
>>>> 
>>>> <http://tinyurl.com/yblyluqp>
>>> 
>>> I was happy enough with an APS-C DSLR, and I am happy enough with an APS-C
>>> MILC. If I ever find myself desiring a larger sensor I might as well go to
>>> MF.
>> 
>> MF as in medium format ain't no more sinze the new sensor is nowhere
>> near 6x4.5cm but that said a Fuji GFX cost at least twice the dough of
>> an Sony equivalence. 6k vs 3k GBP for the back only...
>> 
>> https://www.parkcameras.com/search/go?w=fujifilm+gfx
>> 
>> https://www.parkcameras.com/search/go?w=sony+a7riii
> 
> Those are two very different cameras when it comes to sensor size among other
> things. The Sony a7R III has a FF 35.9mm x 24mm 42.2MP sensor. The Fujifilm
> GFX50S has an MF 43.8mm x 32.9mm 51.4MP sensor. That Sony could hardly be
> called an equivalence, it isn't.

The factor in sensor size, and that is that that make medium format 
captures their special beetween these cameras are 1.7 and not the 
classical 2.8...
> 
> If you are looking for a camera to compare the GFX50S with, you need to look
> to the Hasselblad X1D-50c. That camera has an MF 43.8mm x 32.9mm 50MP sensor.
> those two cameras are equivalents worthy of comparison.
> 
> ...and if you compare prices of those two:
> 
> Fujifilm GFX50S (body): $6499.95
> 
> Hasselblad X1D-50c (body): $7995.00

Yes, the Fuji seem to have an introductory price I lieu of their 
comeback to the "pseudo MF" market. Fuji and Hassy have shared tech 
before and I wouldn't be surprised if this is a new example of that 
cooperation.
>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> What is "Flange"?
>>>> 
>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flange_focal_distance>
>>> 
>>> Some of us have already figured out what flange distance is.
>> 
>> Good for you!


-- 
teleportation kills 

	
From: Mike Headon <porky@YCKMHWA.com>
Subject: Re: The Race for The FF MILC is ON!
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From: Mike Headon <porky@YCKMHWA.com>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: The Race for The FF MILC is ON!
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2018 10:50:14 +0000
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On 21/01/2018 05:58, android wrote:
> On 2018-01-20 19:12:28 +0000, Savageduck said:
> 
>> On Jan 20, 2018, android wrote
>> (in article<fch94kF5gqmU1@mid.individual.net>):
>>
>>> We've heard 'bout the Nikon Z FF mount 16mm flange! Could be a
>>> winner... But now Canon seem to be entering the game with a FF EOS M!!!
>>> 18mm flange but the concept is proven!!!
>>>
>>> <http://www.canonrumors.com/canon-sends-invites-to-dealers-for-major... 
>>>
>>> s-presentation-next-month/>
>>>
>>> <http://tinyurl.com/yblyluqp>
>>
>> I was happy enough with an APS-C DSLR, and I am happy enough with an 
>> APS-C
>> MILC. If I ever find myself desiring a larger sensor I might as well 
>> go to
>> MF.
> 
> MF as in medium format ain't no more sinze the new sensor is nowhere 
> near 6x4.5cm but that said a Fuji GFX cost at least twice the dough of 
> an Sony equivalence. 6k vs 3k GBP for the back only...
> 
> https://www.parkcameras.com/search/go?w=fujifilm+gfx
> 
> https://www.parkcameras.com/search/go?w=sony+a7riii
>>>
>>>
>>> What is "Flange"?
>>>
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flange_focal_distance>
>>
>> Some of us have already figured out what flange distance is.
> 
> Good for you!
I started reading this thread thinking it was  about MILFs!

-- 
Mike Headon
R69S R850R
IIIc IIIg FT FTn FT2 EOS450D
e-mail: mike dot headon at enn tee ell world dot com

---
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From: android <here@there.was>
Subject: Re: The Race for The FF MILC is ON!
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From: android <here@there.was>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: The Race for The FF MILC is ON!
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On 2018-01-21 10:50:14 +0000, Mike Headon said:

> On 21/01/2018 05:58, android wrote:
>> On 2018-01-20 19:12:28 +0000, Savageduck said:
>> 
>>> On Jan 20, 2018, android wrote
>>> (in article<fch94kF5gqmU1@mid.individual.net>):
>>> 
>>>> We've heard 'bout the Nikon Z FF mount 16mm flange! Could be a
>>>> winner... But now Canon seem to be entering the game with a FF EOS M!!!
>>>> 18mm flange but the concept is proven!!!
>>>> 
>>>> <http://www.canonrumors.com/canon-sends-invites-to-dealers-for-major...
>>>> s-presentation-next-month/>
>>>> 
>>>> <http://tinyurl.com/yblyluqp>
>>> 
>>> I was happy enough with an APS-C DSLR, and I am happy enough with an APS-C
>>> MILC. If I ever find myself desiring a larger sensor I might as well go to
>>> MF.
>> 
>> MF as in medium format ain't no more sinze the new sensor is nowhere 
>> near 6x4.5cm but that said a Fuji GFX cost at least twice the dough of 
>> an Sony equivalence. 6k vs 3k GBP for the back only...
>> 
>> https://www.parkcameras.com/search/go?w=fujifilm+gfx
>> 
>> https://www.parkcameras.com/search/go?w=sony+a7riii
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> What is "Flange"?
>>>> 
>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flange_focal_distance>
>>> 
>>> Some of us have already figured out what flange distance is.
>> 
>> Good for you!
> I started reading this thread thinking it was  about MILFs!

What's ever on your mind...
-- 
teleportation kills 

	
Subject: Re: The Race for The FF MILC is ON!
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From: David Taylor <david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: The Race for The FF MILC is ON!
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2018 10:51:17 +0000
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On 20/01/2018 16:30, android wrote:
> We've heard 'bout the Nikon Z FF mount 16mm flange! Could be a winner... 
> But now Canon seem to be entering the game with a FF EOS M!!! 18mm 
> flange but the concept is proven!!!
> 
>
<http://www.canonrumors.com/canon-sends-invites-to-dealers-for-major... 
> 
> 
> <http://tinyurl.com/yblyluqp>
> 
> What is "Flange"?
> 
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flange_focal_distance>

Personally, I don't see sufficient advantage in full-frame MILC if new 
lenses are required.  Is the size and weight reduction a significant 
gain?  What else?

For my own needs MFT is quite adequate, and I could never go back to FF.

-- 
Cheers,
David
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu 

	
From: android <here@there.was>
Subject: Re: The Race for The FF MILC is ON!
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From: android <here@there.was>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: The Race for The FF MILC is ON!
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2018 12:08:00 +0100
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On 2018-01-21 10:51:17 +0000, David Taylor said:

> On 20/01/2018 16:30, android wrote:
>> We've heard 'bout the Nikon Z FF mount 16mm flange! Could be a 
>> winner... But now Canon seem to be entering the game with a FF EOS M!!! 
>> 18mm flange but the concept is proven!!!
>> 
>>
<http://www.canonrumors.com/canon-sends-invites-to-dealers-for-major... 
>> 
>> 
>> <http://tinyurl.com/yblyluqp>
>> 
>> What is "Flange"?
>> 
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flange_focal_distance>
> 
> Personally, I don't see sufficient advantage in full-frame MILC if new 
> lenses are required.  Is the size and weight reduction a significant 
> gain?  What else?

The size and weight can be reduced  and and image quality improved 
since the nodal point can be moved closer to the sensor giving the 
enginers more options in the lens design.
> 
> For my own needs MFT is quite adequate, and I could never go back to FF.
-- 
teleportation kills 

	
Subject: Re: The Race for The FF MILC is ON!
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From: David Taylor <david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: The Race for The FF MILC is ON!
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2018 11:45:34 +0000
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On 21/01/2018 11:08, android wrote:
[]
> The size and weight can be reducedĀ  and and image quality improved since 
> the nodal point can be moved closer to the sensor giving the enginers 
> more options in the lens design.

Yes, wide-angle lenses could be better (although likely not cheaper!) 
with FF MILC, I agree.  But otherwise I see very little gain.

Had Nikon/Canon offered FF/APS-C several years back it /might/ have been 
different, but I feel they've missed the boat, now.  Unless many 
professionals are demanding MILC, that is.

-- 
Cheers,
David
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu 

	
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From: RichA <rander3128@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: The Race for The FF MILC is ON!
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Subject: Re: The Race for The FF MILC is ON!
From: RichA <rander3128@gmail.com>
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On Saturday, 20 January 2018 11:30:22 UTC-5, android  wrote:
> We've heard 'bout the Nikon Z FF mount 16mm flange! Could be a 
> winner... But now Canon seem to be entering the game with a FF EOS M!!! 
> 18mm flange but the concept is proven!!!
> 
>
<http://www.canonrumors.com/canon-sends-invites-to-dealers-for-major... 
> 
> 
> <http://tinyurl.com/yblyluqp>
> 
> What is "Flange"?
> 
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flange_focal_distance>
> -- 
> teleportation kills

One wonders if the missteps of Nikon and Canon in this area will be able to be overcome?