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From: Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com>
Subject: CC 2018 19.1.0 AI Select Subject Ruins Things
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From: Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: CC 2018 19.1.0 AI Select Subject Ruins Things
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2018 23:38:55 -0500
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Yeah.  Ruins it for those of us who have worked hard to acquire some
skills at selecting a subject the old way.  We used to be able to
create a selection with the precision that the less-skilled user
couldn't.  Now, it's dead simple for anyone.

I just updated to the new version and gave Select Subject a run in a
couple of images.  It is damned near a one-click procedure.  I tried
on a good photograph of a group of people, but with a very complex
background.  Almost perfect.

A few places to touch up after OKing it and going to Select and Mask.
Where the figures in the group overlap in part, the area between them
where they don't overlap might need revising.

I also used it on a close-up of a grandson who was wearing a
sweatshirt with two very strong colors (dark blue and yellow) and it
only selected one part of the sweatshirt.  It included the blue but
thought the yellow was background.  Again, easy to fix with the plus
tool.

I even tried on that restoration image I did for David B.  Since
that's a sepia image, the process couldn't find the edges for about
50% of the figure.  It needs demarcation to find the edge.  Still, I
could extract the figure after a little fiddling around.

Usually, when I work with a complicated* selection, I do a loose
selection, and then use my Wacom tablet and zoom way in using a Layer
Mask to add/remove.  I find that to be a quicker way than dicking
around adding/removing with the Quick Selection to.  

Using Select Subject I can make the same selection using a mouse and
not zooming in.  I just pick up the Wacom pen for the minor clean-up.

*By "complicated" I mean extracting a figure where the background is
multi-colored and contains the same or similar colors as in the
figure.  The Quick Selection tool has trouble with this.

I was a late-comer to Adobe's Subscription program, but I paid $9.99
last month, and will pay $9.99 this month and I have an upgrade that I
consider to be a major advantage.  I was just notified of my
anniversary of signing up, and the rate remains the same.



-- 
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida 

	
From: Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com>
Subject: Re: CC 2018 19.1.0 AI Select Subject Ruins Things
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Subject: Re: CC 2018 19.1.0 AI Select Subject Ruins Things
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On Jan 23, 2018, Tony Cooper wrote
(in article<4g1g6dde156p0n0tpp45l20b1lrc8vnlha@4ax.com>):

> Yeah. Ruins it for those of us who have worked hard to acquire some
> skills at selecting a subject the old way. We used to be able to
> create a selection with the precision that the less-skilled user
> couldn't. Now, it's dead simple for anyone.
>
> I just updated to the new version and gave Select Subject a run in a
> couple of images. It is damned near a one-click procedure. I tried
> on a good photograph of a group of people, but with a very complex
> background. Almost perfect.
>
> A few places to touch up after OKing it and going to Select and Mask.
> Where the figures in the group overlap in part, the area between them
> where they don't overlap might need revising.
>
> I also used it on a close-up of a grandson who was wearing a
> sweatshirt with two very strong colors (dark blue and yellow) and it
> only selected one part of the sweatshirt. It included the blue but
> thought the yellow was background. Again, easy to fix with the plus
> tool.
>
> I even tried on that restoration image I did for David B. Since
> that's a sepia image, the process couldn't find the edges for about
> 50% of the figure. It needs demarcation to find the edge. Still, I
> could extract the figure after a little fiddling around.
>
> Usually, when I work with a complicated* selection, I do a loose
> selection, and then use my Wacom tablet and zoom way in using a Layer
> Mask to add/remove. I find that to be a quicker way than dicking
> around adding/removing with the Quick Selection to.
>
> Using Select Subject I can make the same selection using a mouse and
> not zooming in. I just pick up the Wacom pen for the minor clean-up.
>
> *By "complicated" I mean extracting a figure where the background is
> multi-colored and contains the same or similar colors as in the
> figure. The Quick Selection tool has trouble with this.
>
> I was a late-comer to Adobe's Subscription program, but I paid $9.99
> last month, and will pay $9.99 this month and I have an upgrade that I
> consider to be a major advantage. I was just notified of my
> anniversary of signing up, and the rate remains the same.

Onward, and upward. I have yet to find a dissadvantage to that $9.99/month 
subscription. That is, for those of us who can actually use, or learn to use 
those tools.

-- 

Regards,
Savageduck 

	
Subject: Re: CC 2018 19.1.0 AI Select Subject Ruins Things
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From: PeterN <"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: CC 2018 19.1.0 AI Select Subject Ruins Things
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2018 16:51:34 -0500
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On 1/23/2018 11:38 PM, Tony Cooper wrote:
> Yeah.  Ruins it for those of us who have worked hard to acquire some
> skills at selecting a subject the old way.  We used to be able to
> create a selection with the precision that the less-skilled user
> couldn't.  Now, it's dead simple for anyone.
> 
> I just updated to the new version and gave Select Subject a run in a
> couple of images.  It is damned near a one-click procedure.  I tried
> on a good photograph of a group of people, but with a very complex
> background.  Almost perfect.
> 
> A few places to touch up after OKing it and going to Select and Mask.
> Where the figures in the group overlap in part, the area between them
> where they don't overlap might need revising.
> 
> I also used it on a close-up of a grandson who was wearing a
> sweatshirt with two very strong colors (dark blue and yellow) and it
> only selected one part of the sweatshirt.  It included the blue but
> thought the yellow was background.  Again, easy to fix with the plus
> tool.
> 
> I even tried on that restoration image I did for David B.  Since
> that's a sepia image, the process couldn't find the edges for about
> 50% of the figure.  It needs demarcation to find the edge.  Still, I
> could extract the figure after a little fiddling around.
> 
> Usually, when I work with a complicated* selection, I do a loose
> selection, and then use my Wacom tablet and zoom way in using a Layer
> Mask to add/remove.  I find that to be a quicker way than dicking
> around adding/removing with the Quick Selection to.
> 
> Using Select Subject I can make the same selection using a mouse and
> not zooming in.  I just pick up the Wacom pen for the minor clean-up.
> 
> *By "complicated" I mean extracting a figure where the background is
> multi-colored and contains the same or similar colors as in the
> figure.  The Quick Selection tool has trouble with this.
> 
> I was a late-comer to Adobe's Subscription program, but I paid $9.99
> last month, and will pay $9.99 this month and I have an upgrade that I
> consider to be a major advantage.  I was just notified of my
> anniversary of signing up, and the rate remains the same.
> 

As you know, here are multiple ways of doing many tasks in PS. PS is not 
without bugs. Do the task the way that makes you more comfortable. If 
the bug is bad, I call support, after checking the forums.

One that really bothers me is the refine edge brush, in select and mask. 
When I use it to clean up an edge, a previously cleaned edge needs cleaning.



-- 
PeterN 

	
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From: Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: CC 2018 19.1.0 AI Select Subject Ruins Things
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From: Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: CC 2018 19.1.0 AI Select Subject Ruins Things
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2018 17:49:36 -0500
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On Wed, 24 Jan 2018 16:51:34 -0500, PeterN
<"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net> wrote:

>On 1/23/2018 11:38 PM, Tony Cooper wrote:
>> Yeah.  Ruins it for those of us who have worked hard to acquire some
>> skills at selecting a subject the old way.  We used to be able to
>> create a selection with the precision that the less-skilled user
>> couldn't.  Now, it's dead simple for anyone.
>> 
>> I just updated to the new version and gave Select Subject a run in a
>> couple of images.  It is damned near a one-click procedure.  I tried
>> on a good photograph of a group of people, but with a very complex
>> background.  Almost perfect.
>> 
>> A few places to touch up after OKing it and going to Select and Mask.
>> Where the figures in the group overlap in part, the area between them
>> where they don't overlap might need revising.
>> 
>> I also used it on a close-up of a grandson who was wearing a
>> sweatshirt with two very strong colors (dark blue and yellow) and it
>> only selected one part of the sweatshirt.  It included the blue but
>> thought the yellow was background.  Again, easy to fix with the plus
>> tool.
>> 
>> I even tried on that restoration image I did for David B.  Since
>> that's a sepia image, the process couldn't find the edges for about
>> 50% of the figure.  It needs demarcation to find the edge.  Still, I
>> could extract the figure after a little fiddling around.
>> 
>> Usually, when I work with a complicated* selection, I do a loose
>> selection, and then use my Wacom tablet and zoom way in using a Layer
>> Mask to add/remove.  I find that to be a quicker way than dicking
>> around adding/removing with the Quick Selection to.
>> 
>> Using Select Subject I can make the same selection using a mouse and
>> not zooming in.  I just pick up the Wacom pen for the minor clean-up.
>> 
>> *By "complicated" I mean extracting a figure where the background is
>> multi-colored and contains the same or similar colors as in the
>> figure.  The Quick Selection tool has trouble with this.
>> 
>> I was a late-comer to Adobe's Subscription program, but I paid $9.99
>> last month, and will pay $9.99 this month and I have an upgrade that I
>> consider to be a major advantage.  I was just notified of my
>> anniversary of signing up, and the rate remains the same.
>> 
>
>As you know, here are multiple ways of doing many tasks in PS. PS is not 
>without bugs. Do the task the way that makes you more comfortable. If 
>the bug is bad, I call support, after checking the forums.

What bug?  There's no bug involved.  If you are referring to my
comment on the Quick Selection tool, there's no implication of a bug.
Rarely, if the background has multiple colors or similar colors to the
subject, does the QS tool make a clean selection from the first drag
around the subject. The results can be adjusted, or the subject can be
made into a clean selection using a Layer Mask.  The latter way is
quicker and easier for me.  
>
>One that really bothers me is the refine edge brush,

What bothers me is that most of the selection tutorials use a subject
with a neutral, solid-color, background.  Selections are child's play
even with stray hair.  Those are not the conditions we deal with in
actual photographs.

>in select and mask. 
>When I use it to clean up an edge, a previously cleaned edge needs cleaning.
-- 
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida