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From: ultred ragnusen <ultred@ragnusen.com>
Subject: Do you see any advantage of Pinta freeware over Paint.NET screenshot-editing?
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From: ultred ragnusen <ultred@ragnusen.com>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital,alt.comp.freeware,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Do you see any advantage of Pinta freeware over Paint.NET screenshot-editing?
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Paint.NET is arguably the best free screenshot editor on Windows simply
because it does best what you do most when screenshot editing, where Pinta
is supposedly its replacement - but I just tested Pinta - and I found it
unusable - so I simply ask if you see any advantage of Pinta freeware over
Paint.NET screenshot-editing?

Example of Paint.NET: 
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/22/pintavspaintnet1.jpg

Example of Pinta:
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/22/pintavspaintnet2.jpg

For as long as I can remember, I've been using Paint.NET freeware, despite
the .NET requirement, for quick screenshot editing, simply because
Paint.NET does the key things you commonly perform on screenshots faster
and easier and more intuitively than any other of the free image editors.
 Paint.NET = https://www.getpaint.net/download.html
 Pinta = https://pinta-project.com/pintaproject/pinta/releases

Many years ago I tried an MIT Pinta beta, where Pinta was supposedly the
Microsoft-funded replacement for Paint.NET, but the version I tried didn't
even have curved arrows, so I summarily dropped the endeavor.

However, recently I re-installed Windows on a new HDD so I decided to try
the latest Microsoft-funded MIT Pinta 1.6, which is supposedly the released
version of the successor to Paint.NET 4.0.21.

After a quick test, I concluded Pinta is (still) worthless, when compared
to Paint.NET for screenshot editing because Pinta (still) doesn't do the
most important common elements in screenshot editing that Paint.NET does
well.

POSITIONAL TEXTING:
Pinta is unable to drag text after you type it, which is just untenable in
a screenshot editor, whereas Paint.NET adds text intuitively, without need
for pre-defind bounding boxes and where you can intuitively change the
font, perhaps change the size and the indentation (which Pinta does also),
and then you can drag the just-typed text to its final location (which,
inexplicably, you can't do in Pinta).

CURVED ARROWING:
Curved arrowing is a critical feature for screenshot editing, which
Paint.NET does better and easier than any other known screenshot editor on
this planet (IMHO), but Pinta's curved-arrow GUI, although similar, is both
more powerful and yet, far more cumbersome than was Paint.NET ... so that's
a wash.

OPEN SHAPES:
Drawing and then subsequently modifying open shapes such as circles,
rectangles, elipses, etc., on the fly is a common screenshot-editing need,
where both Paint.NET and Pinta are more intuitive and fewer steps than most
screenshot editors, but Pinta, while having more powerful
editing-after-the-fact stretch handles, lost the ability to move the final
location of the drawn rectangle by not having a movable anchor, so that's a
loss for Pinta.

PASTE STRETCHING:
Pinta is unable to stretch selections, and, it puts copied selections in
completely arbitrary locations when pasting them, where with Paint.NET, you
select an area, control+c, control+v, and the selection is exactly where
you want it, and you get intuitive stretch handles to stretch the pasted
selection (which Pinta is completely unable to do) ... so that flaw alone
basically kills Pinta as a useful screenshot editor.

Given that Pinta doesn't (seem to) do the three most important things
needed for a screenshot editor, I simply ask others if they see any reason
for Pinta to be used at this stage of its development?

-- 
NOTE: If you know of any freeware screenshot editor that does ALL those key
requirements more intuitively than does Paint.NET, I'm all ears, as I hate
having to use .NET Framework just to get a decent screenshot editor. 

	
From: Good Guy <hello.world@example.com>
Subject: Re: Do you see any advantage of Pinta freeware over Paint.NETscreenshot-editing?
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From: Good Guy <hello.world@example.com>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital,alt.comp.freeware
Subject: Re: Do you see any advantage of Pinta freeware over Paint.NET
screenshot-editing?
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2018 12:42:07 +0000
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On 22/02/2018 04:32, ultred ragnusen wrote:
> Pai


Can you just fuck off and stop spamming Windows 10 newsgroup.
>


-- 
With over 600 million devices now running Windows 10, customer 
satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.

--------------070904010203050407030605
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<html>
  <head>
    <meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
  </head>
  <body bgcolor="#FCFBE3" text="#000000">
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 22/02/2018 04:32, ultred ragnusen
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote cite="mid:8yp0w85ow6f4.igghgs5fa4q9.dlg@40tude.net"
      type="cite">
      <pre wrap="">Pai</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <br>
    Can you just fuck off and stop spamming Windows 10 newsgroup.<br>
    <blockquote cite="mid:8yp0w85ow6f4.igghgs5fa4q9.dlg@40tude.net"
      type="cite">
      <pre wrap="">

</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
      <div class="moz-signature">
        <div style="width: 340px;height: 290px; background-color: blue;
          color: yellow;font-weight: bolder; font-size:200%; text-align:
          center; margin: 30px 5px 30px 5px;">With over 600 million
          devices now running Windows 10, customer satisfaction is
          higher than any previous version of windows.</div>
      </div>
    </div>
  </body>
</html>

--------------070904010203050407030605-- 

	
From: Yrrah <Yrrah-acf@acf.invalid>
Subject: Re: Do you see any advantage of Pinta freeware over Paint.NET screenshot-editing?
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From: Yrrah <Yrrah-acf@acf.invalid>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital,alt.comp.freeware,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Do you see any advantage of Pinta freeware over Paint.NET screenshot-editing?
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Good Guy<hello.world@example.com>:

> </pre>
>     </blockquote>
>     <br>
>     <br>
>     <div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
>       <div class="moz-signature">
>         <div style="width: 340px;height: 290px; background-color: blue;
>           color: yellow;font-weight: bolder; font-size:200%; text-align:
>           center; margin: 30px 5px 30px 5px;">With over 600 million
>           devices now running Windows 10, customer satisfaction is
>           higher than any previous version of windows.</div>
>       </div>
>     </div>

However, on the other hand...

"When Usenet and e-mail users respond to a message, they often want to
include some context for the discussion. This is often accomplished by
quoting a portion of the original message using Usenet conventions. In
essence the convention is to communicate in plain text format (not
HTML)..."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet_quoting


Yrrah 

	
From: ultred ragnusen <ultred@ragnusen.com>
Subject: Re: Do you see any advantage of Pinta freeware over Paint.NET screenshot-editing?
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From: ultred ragnusen <ultred@ragnusen.com>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital,alt.comp.freeware
Subject: Re: Do you see any advantage of Pinta freeware over Paint.NET screenshot-editing?
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Good Guy<hello.world@example.com> wrote:

> Can you just fuck off and stop spamming Windows 10 newsgroup.

Pot, kettle, black.

Besides, it'e a relevant question and observation, with appropriate links
and well-annotated example screenshots. 

	
From: Mayayana <mayayana@invalid.nospam>
Subject: Re: Do you see any advantage of Pinta freeware over Paint.NET screenshot-editing?
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Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital,alt.comp.freeware,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Do you see any advantage of Pinta freeware over Paint.NET screenshot-editing?
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"ultred ragnusen"<ultred@ragnusen.com> wrote

| Good Guy<hello.world@example.com> wrote:
|
| Besides, it'e a relevant question and observation, with appropriate links
| and well-annotated example screenshots.

  Just filter out "Good Guy". There's no reason
anyone should have to see his posts. By answering
him you share his mean-spirited, irrelevant posts
with those of us who wouldn't normally see them at
all.

  I realize you don't personally care about .Net, but
since you're cross-posting to photo and freeware
groups, it's worth noting that Paint.Net always
requires the very latest .Net framework, which can be
an enormous hog of space if you don't have anything
else that needs it. (There's very little popular software
that does use .Net.)

 I downloaded Pinta out of curiosity. The installer tried
to go online to download .Net4, without asking me.
Then it popped up a message that there were "errors"
and it had to quit. No explanation! Only the install log
told me it was trying to install .Net4, and only my
firewall told me it was trying to go online. So add faulty
installer to your negative assessment.

 I've never tried Paint.Net because of the .Net
requirement, but also because for anyone who wants
a full-fledged graphic editor there are plenty of other
options. Paint Shop Pro 5 is online for free. The latest
version of PSP was about $50 last I checked. There's
GIMP if you absolutely won't spend money for software.

   Though
the category of "screenshot software" seems to be
unique. I've never had a desire to draw a curved
arrow on anything, but I can see how that would be
helpful if you were doing something like posting images
on a website regularly. 

	
From: ultred ragnusen <ultred@ragnusen.com>
Subject: Re: Do you see any advantage of Pinta freeware over Paint.NET screenshot-editing?
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Subject: Re: Do you see any advantage of Pinta freeware over Paint.NET screenshot-editing?
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Mayayana<mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:

>   I realize you don't personally care about .Net, but
> since you're cross-posting to photo and freeware
> groups, it's worth noting that Paint.Net always
> requires the very latest .Net framework, which can be
> an enormous hog of space if you don't have anything
> else that needs it. (There's very little popular software
> that does use .Net.)

Hi Mayayana,
I agree with you that it's terrible that Paint.NET requires the abominable
..NET Framework, where, since this is a newly installed HDD, I watched what
the Paint.NET installer installed, and what Pinta installed, which is:

- Paint.NET -> installed .NET Framework 4.7.1
- Pinta -> .NET framework 2.12.22 & GtkSharp 2.12 (whatever that is)

What's odd is that both were installed on the same day this week, where one
installs a vastly different version of .NET Framework than the other.

My main question, since we all hate .NET Framework, is why don't /other/
freeware editors do the /simplest/ of things well? Why is it only Paint.NET
that can get texting, bounding boxes, arrowing, and stretch selections
right?

The split second someone tells me of software that does those 4 things
right (as long as it doesn't do the other easy stuff terribly), I'll ditch
Paint.NET. I swear! :)

1. Add text simply without need for bounding boxes & modify easily (e.g.,
change the size, font, etc., and location in the same steps).

2. Add an "open" bounding box shape that, like the text above, is
modifiable on the fly as you're editing, using anchors for position and
stretch points for shape.

3. Add an arrow that can curve around objects in the screenshot, and, as in
the above, has colors, thicknesses, dashes, arrows, and anchor points that
can be moved on the fly at the time of drawing the arrow.

4. Copy and paste a selection on a screenshot that pastes EXACTLY where you
copied it from (which is a requirement that is mandatory) so that you can
then stretch the edges to cover up extraneous clutter inevitable in any
screenshot, along with an anchor to move the pasted object if you so wish.

I ask only for a screenshot freeware editor that can do, at least, those
four things as easily and as intuitively as does Paint.NET, but I've
searched for decades (it seems) and found none.

Even Pinta, which is intended to be a modern copy of Paint.NET, fails on
all four of those requirements.

>  I downloaded Pinta out of curiosity. The installer tried
> to go online to download .Net4, without asking me.

Yup. See above. Both Paint.NET and Pinta are Microsoft funded, where we all
suspect the entire goal is to put out a .NET Framework application that
people will use (despite the fact we hate that .NET crap).

The funny thing is that the old Paint.NET apparently uses a /newer/ .NET
framework, if the number system means anything sequential.

> Then it popped up a message that there were "errors"
> and it had to quit. No explanation! Only the install log
> told me it was trying to install .Net4, and only my
> firewall told me it was trying to go online. So add faulty
> installer to your negative assessment.

I agree with you wholeheartedly that if we could get rid of these
Microsoft-funded freeware apps, we would.

But I can't find, in decades (it seems) of looking, a better app for
screenshot editing, with respect to the four fundamentals I've described
above.

Sadly, it seems only the MIT students who designed Paint.NET actually
/understood/ screenshot editing usability!

>  I've never tried Paint.Net because of the .Net
> requirement, but also because for anyone who wants
> a full-fledged graphic editor there are plenty of other
> options.

No! Emphatically no!

I'm not going to claim to be an expert on all picture editing freeware, but
if you've ever tried to draw an open bounding box in The GIMP, you'll see
how terrible that GUI is compared to Paint.NET.

If you've ever tried to move and modify a selection in Irfanview, you'll
see how horrid Irfanview is at editing screenshots.

If you've ever tried to draw a curved arrow in ANY freeware editor other
than Paint.NET, you'll see, instantly, that only the Paint.NET MIT
developer knew how to do such simple things.

Please don't think I love only Paint.NET because I /hate/ .NET Framework. 

I love Paint.NET because it does those four things the way they /should/ be
done, where it's astounding to me how difficult, in comparison, to do all
four in other programs.

Bear in mind, other programs do one or the other (especially texting) well,
but none do all four, where all four are a requirement in almost all
screenshot edits.

> Paint Shop Pro 5 is online for free. The latest
> version of PSP was about $50 last I checked. 

Mayayana, I realize you're a coder and you're intelligent and that you know
software - but just listing a bunch of software isn't going to help anyone
because I've tried - for decades (it seems) to find something /better/ than
Paint.NET (because I hate .NET Framework).

Nobody should suggest any other freeware editor until they've /tried/ those
four things in Paint.NET that I posit are (a) done right and (b) needed in
almost all my screenshot edits.

> There's
> GIMP if you absolutely won't spend money for software.

See above. Just try to draw an open bounding box in The GIMP and you'll see
the hell it puts you through for something that is trivially simple to do
in Paint.NET.
 
> Though
> the category of "screenshot software" seems to be
> unique.

Yours is a viable observation, which I appreciate.

I use those words specifically because I'm an old hand at this type of
editing where you don't usually need to draw bounding boxes, add text,
connect them with arrows, and cover selection areas with "photo editors".

Editing screenshots is completely different than editing photos, where the
similarities are enormous, I agree - but so are the innate differences.

> I've never had a desire to draw a curved
> arrow on anything, but I can see how that would be
> helpful if you were doing something like posting images
> on a website regularly.

The curvature of the arrow is so that you can follow the basic philosophy
of your edits not obscuring the inherent data of the screenshot. You can
draw straight arrows - but you often connect text to bounding boxes where
the text has to go on an empty space on the screenshot as does the arrow.

Of course, if you spend HOURS upon HOURS creating the initial screenshot,
you can likely organize the initial screenshot such that there is space for
the text and arrow that doesn't block the underlying images, but we're
talking basics here.

If I snap a screenshot of this note, for example, and I want to arrow and
text and put a box around your comments, the ability to curve the arrows is
essential for efficiency.

http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/22/screenshots.jpg 

	
From: Mayayana <mayayana@invalid.nospam>
Subject: Re: Do you see any advantage of Pinta freeware over Paint.NET screenshot-editing?
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Subject: Re: Do you see any advantage of Pinta freeware over Paint.NET screenshot-editing?
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"ultred ragnusen"<ultred@ragnusen.com> wrote

| My main question, since we all hate .NET Framework, is why don't /other/
| freeware editors do the /simplest/ of things well? Why is it only 
Paint.NET
| that can get texting, bounding boxes, arrowing, and stretch selections
| right?
|

    It might be partly due to the same reason that
you can get free samples of cheese and crackers
at the supermarket, but you rarely see free lobster
roll samples.... You're only willing to look at free so
you're reducing your options.

  Any decent graphic editor gives you floating text.
I don't know about arrows, as I've never needed them.
You're looking for a very specific tool but what you're
looking at is graphic editors.

  As far as .Net goes: My understanding is that
Paint.Net was originally designed by a student as a
demo of what .Net can do in terms of graphics.
The same things require more work when written
as native software. .Net is a wrapper around the
more abstruse Windows API.

   Processed food is a pretty good analogy. The
other day I got some shrimp on sale and looked
online for a new shrimp recipe idea. Shrimp
alfredo... That looked interesting. What's the
recipe?..... 1 lb. shrimp, a bottle alfredo sauce.... :)
That story is true. That was the recipe!

  It's easy to make shrimp alfredo if you're just
dumping a bottle into a pan. That's why good
restaurants have 15 items on the menu and
bad restaurants have 150. The latter only need
to take something out of the freezer and
microwave it.

| > Paint Shop Pro 5 is online for free. The latest
| > version of PSP was about $50 last I checked.
|
| Mayayana, I realize you're a coder and you're intelligent and that you 
know
| software - but just listing a bunch of software isn't going to help anyone
| because I've tried - for decades (it seems) to find something /better/ 
than
| Paint.NET (because I hate .NET Framework).
|

   I'm not answering only for you. There are options
for graphic editors that are cheap or free. Not
everyone wants to draw arrows. Since this is a
public discussion it's a good chance to let people
know about options. At the same time, since PSP5
is free, even you might find it worth exploring....
even if not for arrow drawing.

| I use those words specifically because I'm an old hand at this type of
| editing where you don't usually need to draw bounding boxes, add text,
| connect them with arrows, and cover selection areas with "photo editors".
|

  I've seen people talk about drawing arrows in the photo
group. Maybe the best approach, since you have very
specific needs, would be to ask in the photo and graphics
groups for exactly the 4 things you want. But it sounds
to me like an odd question. In effect you're saying that
Paint.Net is exactly what you want, and you want to
replace it. Not only that, but the replacement must be
free. Something about gift horses comes to mind. :) 

	
From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Subject: Re: Do you see any advantage of Pinta freeware over Paint.NET screenshot-editing?
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Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital,alt.comp.freeware,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Do you see any advantage of Pinta freeware over Paint.NET screenshot-editing?
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In article <p6ms85$r7r$1@dont-email.me>, Mayayana<mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:

>     It might be partly due to the same reason that
> you can get free samples of cheese and crackers
> at the supermarket, but you rarely see free lobster
> roll samples.... You're only willing to look at free so
> you're reducing your options.

you're going to the wrong markets.



>    Processed food is a pretty good analogy. The
> other day I got some shrimp on sale and looked
> online for a new shrimp recipe idea. Shrimp
> alfredo... That looked interesting. What's the
> recipe?..... 1 lb. shrimp, a bottle alfredo sauce.... :)
> That story is true. That was the recipe!

at least it's something you could manage.

>   It's easy to make shrimp alfredo if you're just
> dumping a bottle into a pan. That's why good
> restaurants have 15 items on the menu and
> bad restaurants have 150. The latter only need
> to take something out of the freezer and
> microwave it.

the best restaurants don't have a menu. 

	
From: ultred ragnusen <ultred@ragnusen.com>
Subject: Re: Do you see any advantage of Pinta freeware over Paint.NET screenshot-editing?
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Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital,alt.comp.freeware,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Do you see any advantage of Pinta freeware over Paint.NET screenshot-editing?
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Mayayana<mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:

>  It might be partly due to the same reason that
> you can get free samples of cheese and crackers
> at the supermarket, but you rarely see free lobster
> roll samples.... You're only willing to look at free so
> you're reducing your options.

I don't think that statement is even close to true simply because of
obvious factors such as the mere fact that most payware editors won't be
"screenshot" editors - so they won't have optimized the screenshoting needs
of (a) texting (b) arrowing (c) bounding boxes, and (d) pasted selection
stretching as well as has Paint.NET.

Remember, a "photo" editor will have completely different basic needs than
a "screenshot" editor, where there are fewer payware screenshot editors, so
your statement likely doesn't hold water, unless you can find a screenshot
editor payware that does those four things as well as does Paint.NET.

>   Any decent graphic editor gives you floating text.

You need all four things, where "floating text" is the easiest and many
programs have it (and many don't), but if you pick just one thing it's like
you telling me that a one-legged race horse can win the race.

> I don't know about arrows, as I've never needed them.
> You're looking for a very specific tool but what you're
> looking at is graphic editors.

They're all graphic editors but when you edit screenshots off a computer
screen, you need a different set of features than you need when you edit
photos taken from a camera.

Four features you need which are badly done with most graphic editors are
a. texting where you just type it, modify it, and move it.
b. bounding boxes where you just draw it, modify it, and move it.
c. arrowing where you just draw it, modify it, and move it.
d. pasted selections which go back EXACTLY where they came from (which is
critical), and which can be stretched and moved as needed.

It's amazing how few graphic editors make those tasks as simple as
Paint.NET does, where I posit that ZERO graphic editors do all four as
easily and intuitively as does Paint.NET.

Mind you, I would LOVE to replace paint.net (which is why I tried Pinta
again); but those four features are critical, where no other known graphic
editor does all four as well.

>   As far as .Net goes: My understanding is that
> Paint.Net was originally designed by a student as a
> demo of what .Net can do in terms of graphics.

I think Microsoft funded the project, and I think it was at MIT.

> The same things require more work when written
> as native software. .Net is a wrapper around the
> more abstruse Windows API.

Yes. Understood.

>    Processed food is a pretty good analogy. The
> other day I got some shrimp on sale and looked
> online for a new shrimp recipe idea. Shrimp
> alfredo... That looked interesting. What's the
> recipe?..... 1 lb. shrimp, a bottle alfredo sauce.... :)
> That story is true. That was the recipe!

Good analogy.

>    I'm not answering only for you.

Good! I answer for everyone also, which is why you'll see me provide
details that most people would skip.

I also try to include a ng that is archived by Google so that the tribal
knowledge can be accessed in the future.
 http://tinyurl.com/alt-comp-freeware
 http://tinyurl.com/rec-photo-digital
 (unfortunately the Win10 ng is not archived)

>  There are options
> for graphic editors that are cheap or free. 

Not one free or payware graphics editor that I know of does the four basics
for screenshot editors as well as Paint.NET (and Lord knows, I hate
Paint.NET but I'm only looking at the functionality).

If there was an editor that did those four things as well as does
Paint.NET, I'd have known about it by now I would think since I've asked
the same question for decades (it seems).

> Not everyone wants to draw arrows. Since this is a
> public discussion it's a good chance to let people
> know about options. At the same time, since PSP5
> is free, even you might find it worth exploring....
> even if not for arrow drawing.

I have installed scores of graphics editors over the years, including PSP
when it was freely available. I didn't find it any better for screenshot
editing than Paint.NET was, where I was hoping Pinta would have gotten
things right by now.

>| I use those words specifically because I'm an old hand at this type of
>| editing where you don't usually need to draw bounding boxes, add text,
>| connect them with arrows, and cover selection areas with "photo editors".
> 
>   I've seen people talk about drawing arrows in the photo
> group.

I've asked in the past, probably once a year over the past fifteen years,
and nothing ever suggested works. On the Mac they are even less
knowledgeable than on Windows because all they seem to know on the Mac is
Adobe payware stuff.

You 'can' draw curved arrows, for example, on the mac, using the default
free editors - but they suck like you can't believe. (Try it.)

>  Maybe the best approach, since you have very
> specific needs, would be to ask in the photo and graphics
> groups for exactly the 4 things you want.

Um, this is a photo and graphics ng.

And besides, stop saying it's a 'very specific' need to text, bound,
select, and arrow. They are very /basic/ needs. Very common. Very basic. 

If you think those four tasks are complex needs, then you have completely
missed the point because they're as basic a need as it gets for a graphics
editor.

Bear in mind things like "cropping" and "resizing" and "canvas additions"
and "layer imports" and "color changes" are also basic needs, but almost
all graphics editors get those basic needs right.

I'm only bringing up the four basic things that most (if not almost all)
graphics editors get wrong. If you've never used Paint.NET, then you will
have utterly no comprehension of what I'm talking about.

It's like the difference between driving a Yugo and driving a Corvette.

> But it sounds
> to me like an odd question. In effect you're saying that
> Paint.Net is exactly what you want, and you want to
> replace it. Not only that, but the replacement must be
> free. Something about gift horses comes to mind. :)

No no no no. 

I'm simply asking if anyone else has had the same observation that Pinta
isn't ready for prime time because it doesn't even do the basics well.

I'm also saying that I hate that Paint.NET uses Net Framework, but it's a
necessary evil because nothing out there does screenshot editing well, and
particularly I point out 4 very specific things that are done weell on
Paint.NET.

Your statement is wrong because you think I'm enamored only by HOW they're
done, where I agree, texting in, say Irfanview is an abomination compared
to Paint.NET and drawing open bounding boxes in The GIMP is an abomination
compared to how Paint.NET does it.

So those examples show that the HOW is important, since the HOW must be
simple, quick, and intuitive. 

But it's also the CAN that I'm looking at, in that a program that can't
paste a selection EXACTLY on top of where it came from, simply introduces
error and extra steps for no advantage whatsoever. 

Just try this in any grapics editor and then try it in Paint.NET.
1. Select an area of any desired shape and size
2. Control + c to copy it and control + v to paste it
3. If the resulting copy isn't EXACTLY on top of the original, it's
useless.

That's a simple test of efficient functionality.

Another simple test of efficient functionality is:
1. Start texting an area (just start typing)
2. Then modify that text (e.g., add line indents, change words, fonts).
3. Then move the text to a desired location and edit it some more

If the graphics editor can't do something as simple as that, it's useless.

Again, remember I hate Paint.NET's need for .NET Framework, but I have
looked for decades (it seems) for a better more functionally intuitive
graphics editor for the dozen or so basic steps, where those 4 steps, in
particular, are done better on Paint.NET than any other graphics editor
known.

If you don't understand that statement, you have to try those four things. 

	
From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Subject: Re: Do you see any advantage of Pinta freeware over Paint.NET screenshot-editing?
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From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital,alt.comp.freeware,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Do you see any advantage of Pinta freeware over Paint.NET screenshot-editing?
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In article <7dr9mlscgjml$.1sjpryav2klf8$.dlg@40tude.net>, ultred
ragnusen<ultred@ragnusen.com> wrote:

> 
> You 'can' draw curved arrows, for example, on the mac, using the default
> free editors - but they suck like you can't believe. (Try it.)

nonsense. 

*no* additional software is needed on a mac to take and edit screen
shots, including adding arrows, text or whatever else. none. 

you've even been told how to do it, which you of course ignore, as you
do with everything that doesn't fit your fucked up view of the world. 

	
From: ultred ragnusen <ultred@ragnusen.com>
Subject: Re: Do you see any advantage of Pinta freeware over Paint.NET screenshot-editing?
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From: ultred ragnusen <ultred@ragnusen.com>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital,alt.comp.freeware,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Do you see any advantage of Pinta freeware over Paint.NET screenshot-editing?
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nospam<nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

>> You 'can' draw curved arrows, for example, on the mac, using the default
>> free editors - but they suck like you can't believe. (Try it.)
> 
> nonsense. 

You must have bought too many arguments this week because you say nonsense
above and then you agree below.

> *no* additional software is needed on a mac to take and edit screen
> shots, including adding arrows, text or whatever else. none. 

Nobody said additional software was needed.

> you've even been told how to do it, which you of course ignore, as you
> do with everything that doesn't fit your fucked up view of the world.

I know full well how to do it, and I wrote at the time and explained at the
time how atrocious it was, but I agreed at the time that it could be done.

So you must have simply bought too many arguments this week. 

	
From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Subject: Re: Do you see any advantage of Pinta freeware over Paint.NET screenshot-editing?
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From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital,alt.comp.freeware,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Do you see any advantage of Pinta freeware over Paint.NET screenshot-editing?
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In article <1j94ordxl7arf$.1vm9wx4jzuyk2$.dlg@40tude.net>, ultred
ragnusen<ultred@ragnusen.com> wrote:

> 
> >> You 'can' draw curved arrows, for example, on the mac, using the default
> >> free editors - but they suck like you can't believe. (Try it.)
> > 
> > nonsense. 
> 
> You must have bought too many arguments this week because you say nonsense
> above and then you agree below.

nope.

> > *no* additional software is needed on a mac to take and edit screen
> > shots, including adding arrows, text or whatever else. none. 
> 
> Nobody said additional software was needed.

then why are you searching for freeware (i.e., sucky) editors?

> > you've even been told how to do it, which you of course ignore, as you
> > do with everything that doesn't fit your fucked up view of the world.
> 
> I know full well how to do it, and I wrote at the time and explained at the
> time how atrocious it was, but I agreed at the time that it could be done.

it's not atrocious at all. in fact, it works exceptionally well.

on ios devices, it's even easier than on a mac, something android can't
do without a lot of clumsy workarounds. 

	
From: ultred ragnusen <ultred@ragnusen.com>
Subject: Re: Do you see any advantage of Pinta freeware over Paint.NET screenshot-editing?
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From: ultred ragnusen <ultred@ragnusen.com>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital,alt.comp.freeware,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Do you see any advantage of Pinta freeware over Paint.NET screenshot-editing?
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nospam<nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

>> Nobody said additional software was needed.
> 
> then why are you searching for freeware (i.e., sucky) editors?

You must have bought too many arguments this week because you are the one
who said "*no* additional software is needed on a mac" where I agreed with
you and never said otherwise.

> it's not atrocious at all. in fact, it works exceptionally well.

Except it's the canonical definition of bloatware and it doesn't even work
in the real world.

> on ios devices, it's even easier than on a mac, something android can't
> do without a lot of clumsy workarounds.

You play your silly child-like games trying to make a Pinta versus
Paint.NET thread into an iOS versus Android fiasco.

On Android, you just plug in the phone. That's it.
You slide files back and forth. That's it.
It just works. 
There's zero need for non-native software on either the phone or the
computer.

You can claim that the iTunes abomination is "better" but you can't claim
that it works in the real world, nor that iTunes isn't the canonical
example of bloatware.


- The unofficial guide to installing iTunes without bloatware
  http://www.zdnet.com/article/the-unofficial-guide-to-installing-itu...

- Install iTunes Without the Extra Bloatware
   https://lifehacker.com/5635089/install-itunes-10-without-the-extra-b...

- Step-by-Step Guide to Installing iTunes Without Extra Bloatware
   https://www.howtogeek.com/howto/28727/how-to-install-itunes-without-...

- How can iTunes be saved from being bloatware?
  https://www.quora.com/How-can-iTunes-be-saved-from-being-bloatware

- The Atrocious iTunes Bloatware Lives On
  http://applenapps.com/feature/wheres-itunes-11-the-atrocious-itunes...

- How to install iTunes without bloatware? 
  https://discussions.apple.com/thread/1976464

- Apple 

	
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From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
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Subject: Re: Do you see any advantage of Pinta freeware over Paint.NET screenshot-editing?
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In article <1orvoxtmwm965.1kzf8j9bfqk23$.dlg@40tude.net>, ultred
ragnusen<ultred@ragnusen.com> wrote:

> 
> > it's not atrocious at all. in fact, it works exceptionally well.
> 
> Except it's the canonical definition of bloatware and it doesn't even work
> in the real world.

there is no bloatware to draw arrows or edit screen shots on a mac or
ios for that matter. 

> > on ios devices, it's even easier than on a mac, something android can't
> > do without a lot of clumsy workarounds.
> 
> You play your silly child-like games trying to make a Pinta versus
> Paint.NET thread into an iOS versus Android fiasco.

nope. 

> On Android, you just plug in the phone. That's it.
> You slide files back and forth. That's it.
> It just works. 
> There's zero need for non-native software on either the phone or the
> computer.

exactly the same as ios, except you don't need to plug in an ios device
to transfer files.

> You can claim that the iTunes abomination is "better" but you can't claim
> that it works in the real world, nor that iTunes isn't the canonical
> example of bloatware.

once again, get it through your thick fucking skull, itunes is not
required. 

	
From: ultred ragnusen <ultred@ragnusen.com>
Subject: Re: Do you see any advantage of Pinta freeware over Paint.NET screenshot-editing?
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From: ultred ragnusen <ultred@ragnusen.com>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital,alt.comp.freeware,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Do you see any advantage of Pinta freeware over Paint.NET screenshot-editing?
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2018 11:13:09 -0800
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nospam<nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> exactly the same as ios, except you don't need to plug in an ios device
> to transfer files.

You must have bought too many arguments because I was talking about USB
where you know full well there's no need to plug in an Android device in
order to "mount" it to Windows or Linux or the Mac over your Wi-Fi LAN so
that you can slide files back and forth from and to the available part of
the file system that on the phone.

>> You can claim that the iTunes abomination is "better" but you can't claim
>> that it works in the real world, nor that iTunes isn't the canonical
>> example of bloatware.
> 
> once again, get it through your thick fucking skull, itunes is not
> required.

You must have bought too many arguments this week 

	
From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Subject: Re: Do you see any advantage of Pinta freeware over Paint.NET screenshot-editing?
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From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital,alt.comp.freeware,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Do you see any advantage of Pinta freeware over Paint.NET screenshot-editing?
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In article<gsqy8wm76srm.nyrifmnenm1m.dlg@40tude.net>, ultred ragnusen<ultred@ragnusen.com> wrote:

> 
> > exactly the same as ios, except you don't need to plug in an ios device
> > to transfer files.
> 
> You must have bought too many arguments because I was talking about USB
> where you know full well there's no need to plug in an Android device in
> order to "mount" it to Windows or Linux or the Mac over your Wi-Fi LAN so
> that you can slide files back and forth from and to the available part of
> the file system that on the phone.

no need on ios either, and you're moving the goalposts again. 

	
From: Bill W <nothing@nowhere.com>
Subject: Re: Do you see any advantage of Pinta freeware over Paint.NET screenshot-editing?
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From: Bill W <nothing@nowhere.com>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Do you see any advantage of Pinta freeware over Paint.NET screenshot-editing?
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2018 11:50:00 -0800
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On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 14:18:37 -0500, nospam<nospam@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

>In article<gsqy8wm76srm.nyrifmnenm1m.dlg@40tude.net>, ultred ragnusen
><ultred@ragnusen.com> wrote:
>
>> 
>> > exactly the same as ios, except you don't need to plug in an ios device
>> > to transfer files.
>> 
>> You must have bought too many arguments because I was talking about USB
>> where you know full well there's no need to plug in an Android device in
>> order to "mount" it to Windows or Linux or the Mac over your Wi-Fi LAN so
>> that you can slide files back and forth from and to the available part of
>> the file system that on the phone.
>
>no need on ios either, and you're moving the goalposts again.

Ummm, this guy *is* a troll, right? I see him doing the same sort of
mind-numbing posts on another NG. 

	
From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Subject: Re: Do you see any advantage of Pinta freeware over Paint.NET screenshot-editing?
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From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Do you see any advantage of Pinta freeware over Paint.NET screenshot-editing?
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In article<7l7u8dt2nnp3at5v4gd391jobi0hjbn5kq@4ax.com>, Bill W<nothing@nowhere.com> wrote:

> >In article<gsqy8wm76srm.nyrifmnenm1m.dlg@40tude.net>, ultred ragnusen
> ><ultred@ragnusen.com> wrote: 
> >> You must have bought too many arguments because I was talking about USB
> >> where you know full well there's no need to plug in an Android device in
> >> order to "mount" it to Windows or Linux or the Mac over your Wi-Fi LAN so
> >> that you can slide files back and forth from and to the available part of
> >> the file system that on the phone.
> >
> >no need on ios either, and you're moving the goalposts again.
> 
> Ummm, this guy *is* a troll, right? 

very much so.

> I see him doing the same sort of
> mind-numbing posts on another NG. 

yep, under a wide variety of nyms too. 

	
From: ultred ragnusen <ultred@ragnusen.com>
Subject: Re: Do you see any advantage of Pinta freeware over Paint.NET screenshot-editing?
Full headers:
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From: ultred ragnusen <ultred@ragnusen.com>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Subject: Re: Do you see any advantage of Pinta freeware over Paint.NET screenshot-editing?
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2018 18:18:48 -0800
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Bill W<nothing@nowhere.com> wrote:

> Ummm, this guy *is* a troll, right? I see him doing the same sort of
> mind-numbing posts on another NG.

What's sad is that this Bill W troll has trolled incessantly, providing
absolutely zero on-topic value in EVERY one of his childish posts.

This Bill W. troll is a proven man child, that can't comprehend the subject
line.

Worse, this Bill W. troll has /zero/ ability to comprehend the technical
issues.

At least nospam is cleverly duplicitious in that he's always trying to
bring in Apple products even in a thread that has absolutely nothing to do
with Apple products such as this one is.

On the other hand, this Bill W. troll is merely a well-known troll that has
never added technical value to /any/ thread.

Just watch. 

	
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From: PeterN <"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital,alt.comp.freeware,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Re: Do you see any advantage of Pinta freeware over Paint.NET
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On 2/22/2018 11:47 AM, Mayayana wrote:

<snip>

> 
>     Processed food is a pretty good analogy. The
> other day I got some shrimp on sale and looked
> online for a new shrimp recipe idea. Shrimp
> alfredo... That looked interesting. What's the
> recipe?..... 1 lb. shrimp, a bottle alfredo sauce.... :)
> That story is true. That was the recipe!
> 
>    It's easy to make shrimp alfredo if you're just
> dumping a bottle into a pan. That's why good
> restaurants have 15 items on the menu and
> bad restaurants have 150. The latter only need
> to take something out of the freezer and
> microwave it.

All shrimp are not the same. They have different taste and texture, 
depending on whether they are wild, or farmed, fresh water, or 
saltwater. Most shrimp are shipped frozen, so I am picky about shrimp 
that is not frozen. This time of the year fresh caught red Maine shrimp 
are delicious raw.
As for Alfredo sauce, there is no reason to use store bought, unless you 
are lazy. All you need is cream cheese, heavy cream, or milk, butter, 
garlic, Parmesan cheese, and salt & pepper. Just takes a couple of 
minutes, to combine them under low heat.

Bow since you got me hungry, I am making shrimp scampi & pasta for lunch.



-- 
PeterN