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From: David_B <David_B@nomail.afraid.org>
Subject: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
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From: David_B <David_B@nomail.afraid.org>
Subject: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
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By Thomas Fox-Brewster (Forbes)
Feb 26, 2018

=

In what appears to be a major breakthrough for law enforcement, and a 
possible privacy problem for Apple customers, a major U.S. government 
contractor claims to have found a way to unlock pretty much every iPhone 
on the market.

Cellebrite, a Petah Tikva, Israel-based vendor that's become the U.S. 
government's company of choice when it comes to unlocking mobile 
devices, is this month telling customers its engineers currently have 
the ability to get around the security of devices running iOS 11. That 
includes the iPhone X, a model that Forbes has learned was successfully 
raided for data by the Department for Homeland Security back in November 
2017, most likely with Cellebrite technology.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2018/02/26/government-ca...

FYI  ...... (I didn't know either! ;-) )


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petah_Tikva#/media/File:Peta_Tikwa.jpg

-- 
David B. 

	
From: ray carter <ray@zianet.com>
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model InExistence
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From: ray carter <ray@zianet.com>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.apps
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In
Existence
Date: 28 Feb 2018 16:16:47 GMT
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On Wed, 28 Feb 2018 08:50:53 +0000, David_B wrote:

> By Thomas Fox-Brewster (Forbes)
> Feb 26, 2018
> 
> =
> 
> In what appears to be a major breakthrough for law enforcement, and a
> possible privacy problem for Apple customers, a major U.S. government
> contractor claims to have found a way to unlock pretty much every iPhone
> on the market.
> 
> Cellebrite, a Petah Tikva, Israel-based vendor that's become the U.S.
> government's company of choice when it comes to unlocking mobile
> devices, is this month telling customers its engineers currently have
> the ability to get around the security of devices running iOS 11. That
> includes the iPhone X, a model that Forbes has learned was successfully
> raided for data by the Department for Homeland Security back in November
> 2017, most likely with Cellebrite technology.
> 
> https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2018/02/26/government-ca...
access-any-apple-iphone-cellebrite/#4ef11d00667a
> 
> FYI  ...... (I didn't know either! ;-) )
> 
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petah_Tikva#/media/File:Peta_Tikwa.jpg

Yet another good reason to use a dumb flip phone. 

	
From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
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From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
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Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
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In article<ffo2veFk7uiU3@mid.individual.net>, ray carter<ray@zianet.com> wrote:

> Yet another good reason to use a dumb flip phone.

definitely not. those are *far* easier to crack. they aren't even
encrypted. 

	
From: Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
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From: Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.apps
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
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In article <280220181127370843%nospam@nospam.invalid>,
 nospam<nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> In article<ffo2veFk7uiU3@mid.individual.net>, ray carter
><ray@zianet.com> wrote:
> 
> > Yet another good reason to use a dumb flip phone.
> 
> definitely not. those are *far* easier to crack. they aren't even
> encrypted.

But you probably don't have much incriminating data on it in the first 
place.

-- 
Barry Margolin
Arlington, MA 

	
From: ultred ragnusen <ultred@ragnusen.com>
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
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From: ultred ragnusen <ultred@ragnusen.com>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.apps
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
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Barry Margolin<barmar@alum.mit.edu> wrote:

>> 
>>> Yet another good reason to use a dumb flip phone.
>> 
>> definitely not. those are *far* easier to crack. they aren't even
>> encrypted.
> 
> But you probably don't have much incriminating data on it in the first 
> place.

I agree with the sentiment to not /put/ incriminating data on a phone,
where a dumb phone will naturally contain far less automatically generating
data in the first place.

But I bring up the sentiment that anyone who thinks /any/ phone is /safe/
is a fool, because, for a criminal anyway, the biggest incrimination is
simply the ping to the cellular tower that makes a cell phone work as a
cell phone.

Those who /feel/ safer with brand X phones versus brand Y phones because
the marketing of brand X is better than brand Y, I posit, are fools,
because the weakest set of links of all cell phones are the same. 

	
From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
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From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.apps
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
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In article<wuqbb214bj13.12wc1uwm78r8x.dlg@40tude.net>, ultred ragnusen<ultred@ragnusen.com> wrote:

> 
> But I bring up the sentiment that anyone who thinks /any/ phone is /safe/
> is a fool, because, for a criminal anyway, the biggest incrimination is
> simply the ping to the cellular tower that makes a cell phone work as a
> cell phone.

that just shows that the phone was in a given location.

if the criminal leaves the phone at home, it won't put them at the
scene of the crime.

cell tower pings *won't* get access to the data *on* the phone, which
includes photos, text messages, email, calendar, notes, financial
information, social media information and much, much more.

that stuff is *extremely* valuable, not just for investigators, but
also for other criminals, who now know where you live and what your
schedule is (i.e., when to break into your house), who your kids are
and what they look like, where they go to school, etc. 

	
From: ultred ragnusen <ultred@ragnusen.com>
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
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From: ultred ragnusen <ultred@ragnusen.com>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.apps
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
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nospam<nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> that just shows that the phone was in a given location.
> 
> if the criminal leaves the phone at home, it won't put them at the
> scene of the crime.

Lots of answers to your useless repartee, one of which is that you know
full well that they fly Cessnas over cities to gather up the location of
all phones and they use fake Harris Stingray mobile towers in vehicles to
gather up the same location data on everyone, including both criminals and
nuns.

In addition, extremely many crimes are crimes of passion, or crimes of
opportunity, where there's no chance for the criminal to shut off the phone
before they shoot that person in the car given road rage or whatever.

My main point is that /all/ cellphones have the same set of weakest links
where anyone who actually /feels/ safe because the excellent
M-A-R-K-E-T-I-N-G of the brand made them /feel/ safe, is a fool.

> cell tower pings *won't* get access to the data *on* the phone, which
> includes photos, text messages, email, calendar, notes, financial
> information, social media information and much, much more.

Since you bought too many arguments this week, I will only note in response
that I said the /set/ of weakest links on all phones is the same, where the
cell-tower ping is only one of those weak links.

For just another example, when you texted someone, and whom you texted, and
even perhaps the size of the text message, and where it was sent from and
where the person was when they received it, etc., are in that set.

My point is that the set of weakest links is the same in /all/ cellular
phones, such that anyone who /thinks/ they're safe from prying eyes because
MARKETING of brand X said so, is a fool.

> that stuff is *extremely* valuable, not just for investigators, but
> also for other criminals, who now know where you live and what your
> schedule is (i.e., when to break into your house), who your kids are
> and what they look like, where they go to school, etc.

A Harris StingRay is not all that expensive to buy and use. 

	
From: Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
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From: Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.apps
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In article <18rprvf1e3kqf.ewl8o6i04y7n$.dlg@40tude.net>,
 ultred ragnusen<ultred@ragnusen.com> wrote:

> My main point is that /all/ cellphones have the same set of weakest links
> where anyone who actually /feels/ safe because the excellent
> M-A-R-K-E-T-I-N-G of the brand made them /feel/ safe, is a fool.

Security isn't binary, it's a continuum. No one is completely safe, but 
if there's less information on your phone, the danger from the 
government cracking it is lower. And if the phone has better encryption, 
then you're more safe.

-- 
Barry Margolin
Arlington, MA 

	
From: ultred ragnusen <ultred@ragnusen.com>
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
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Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
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Barry Margolin<barmar@alum.mit.edu> wrote:

> Security isn't binary, it's a continuum. No one is completely safe, but 
> if there's less information on your phone, the danger from the 
> government cracking it is lower. And if the phone has better encryption, 
> then you're more safe.

You bring up a logical but potentially fallacious argument. 

It's sort of like saying pregnancy isn't binary, or that death isn't
binary, since there are stages to both.

More to the point, it's sort of like saying that a chain isn't only as
strong as its weakest link, where anyone who wants to break the chain will
simply attack the weakest link.

Hence, here's a philosophical question for you to ponder, given your
statement that security isn't binary.

Q: What is the relative immunity of successful penetration by an adversary
who is attacking two mobile phones, where both mobile phones have the exact
same weakest link?

Is that a binary answer, or not? 

	
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Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
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From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
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Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
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In article <1u3bhkuta2kbr$.1lof3ddtlv0ux.dlg@40tude.net>, ultred
ragnusen<ultred@ragnusen.com> wrote:

> 
> Q: What is the relative immunity of successful penetration by an adversary
> who is attacking two mobile phones, where both mobile phones have the exact
> same weakest link?

except that they aren't the same.

everything on an iphone is encrypted and for all intents, impossible to
crack.

cracking encryption on android phones is child's play. most of them
aren't even encrypted because it slows the phone down too much. 

	
From: ultred ragnusen <ultred@ragnusen.com>
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
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Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
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nospam<nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> everything on an iphone is encrypted and for all intents, impossible to
> crack.
> 
> cracking encryption on android phones is child's play. most of them
> aren't even encrypted because it slows the phone down too much.

Let's give up because you can only spout what Brand X marketing has told
you to spout, which works on the hoi polloi to make them pay more just to
/feel/ safe, but who don't realize that not every attack will be frontal. 

	
From: Davoud <star@sky.net>
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
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From: Davoud <star@sky.net>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.apps
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2018 14:09:01 -0500
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Barry Margolin:
> Security isn't binary, it's a continuum. No one is completely safe, but 
> if there's less information on your phone, the danger from the 
> government cracking it is lower. And if the phone has better encryption, 
> then you're more safe.

This conversation entirely misses the point. As I have pointed out, the
"threat" does not come from the US government, which is utterly
uninterested in what you do on-line.

Amazon, Facebook, Google, and myriad other commercial enterprises, on
the other hand, are very much interested in what you are doing on-line
and they have the means of tracking you. Got a medical condition and
using the Internet to learn more about it? Noted. Interested in buying
a car? Noted. Traveling? Location and dates noted.* In fact, anything
and everything that could conceivably enable a commercial enterprise
make a few pennies from your personal information is noted.

But it's not on a list under your name that someone prints out and has
fun reading; printer paper is not sold in 1000km rolls. The data is in
a virtually instantaneous computer-to-computer transaction in which an
intermediary enables targeted ads on your Internet-connected devices. A
few days ago I googled air fares to London. Within *seconds* web pages
that I visited were peppered with ads for airlines, rental cars, and
hotels.

*Travel: if you have an E-ZPass or equivalent the issuer knows every
time you go through a toll booth. For that matter, authorities know
when you go through a toll booth even if you choose to use a slow lane;
your license plate is read by a camera.

How it is that the paranoids ignore commercial trackers and worry about
a disinterested government, I do not know. But then, I'm not paranoid.

-- 
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm 

	
From: ultred ragnusen <ultred@ragnusen.com>
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
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From: ultred ragnusen <ultred@ragnusen.com>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.apps
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2018 18:02:39 -0800
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Davoud<star@sky.net> wrote:

> This conversation entirely misses the point. As I have pointed out, the
> "threat" does not come from the US government, which is utterly
> uninterested in what you do on-line.

You bring up a valid point, which is that the US Government is probably one
of the minor threats we US citizens face - but it's one whom we /pay/
hard-earned dollars to /protect/ us, where they take the easy way out by
surveiling us instead.

> Amazon, Facebook, Google, and myriad other commercial enterprises, on
> the other hand, are very much interested in what you are doing on-line
> and they have the means of tracking you. 

True that.

Again, the weak link in /all/ consumer mobile devices is the same in this
case in that Amazon isn't ever going to go frontal with a brute-force
attack on nospam's vaunted encryption algorithm, which forms the imaginary
basis of his entire belief system.

> Got a medical condition and
> using the Internet to learn more about it? Noted. Interested in buying
> a car? Noted. Traveling? Location and dates noted.* In fact, anything
> and everything that could conceivably enable a commercial enterprise
> make a few pennies from your personal information is noted.

True dat. 

Everything is tied together by the commercial aggregators, such that the
metadata /is/ the data, where, again, I simply posit that, despite the
brand X marketing mantra that nospam loves to spew, /all/ consumer-grade
mobile devices suffer from the same set of weak links.

> But it's not on a list under your name that someone prints out and has
> fun reading; printer paper is not sold in 1000km rolls. The data is in
> a virtually instantaneous computer-to-computer transaction in which an
> intermediary enables targeted ads on your Internet-connected devices.

True that.

And, worse, the data is /stored/ somewhere, where it makes a juicy cache
for someone /else/ to steal.

As I recall, even your debug logs to Microsoft were being intercepted and
stored, and sifted through for data such as your Ethernet MAC address (I'd
have to look that one up).

Hence, I posit, the weak link in /all/ consumer-grade computing devices is
the same, despite brand X's admittedly obvious attempt to make it's loyal
but extremely gullible customers believe that a frontal brute-force attack
is the main danger.

>  A few days ago I googled air fares to London. Within *seconds* web pages
> that I visited were peppered with ads for airlines, rental cars, and
> hotels.

True that. The solution is difficult but it's like the solution to the most
common cause of brake judder - which isn't to change the hardware or
software, but to change your browsing habits (e.g., VPN, proxy, nyms,
headers, etc.).

> *Travel: if you have an E-ZPass or equivalent the issuer knows every
> time you go through a toll booth. For that matter, authorities know
> when you go through a toll booth even if you choose to use a slow lane;
> your license plate is read by a camera.

Yup. I once got a ticket for being in a lane on i580 near Livermore that I
didn't even know was a toll lane, as the highway must be 8 lanes wide on
each side at that point, so I was just cruising along with no traffic
visible in the photo at a non-commute time. 

The ticket was based merely off my license plate since there's no way I'd
ever have those electronic payment systems in my vehicle. (I wonder, if you
have one, can you easily turn it off? Or do you have to Faraday it?)
 
> How it is that the paranoids ignore commercial trackers and worry about
> a disinterested government, I do not know. But then, I'm not paranoid.

I'm not sure whom you're speaking about, but I agree with all your
sentiments, where you have to remember almost all the responses from me
were regarding nospam's marketing-inspired allegation that Brand X phones
are safer simply because of the expense of the frontal attack, which would
only realistically be done by a gobment organization.

Outside of nospam's obvious blind allegiance to Brand X marketing mantra,
you'll see me exhibit the same sentiment you do, which is that the threat
is from a wealth of well-funded sources, such that no phone line is any
safer than any other.

All you can do to combat this threat is constant "privacy hygiene", such as
changing IP addresses, changing nyms and email addresses, changing IMEI
numbers, changing locations, providing false data, changing your
vernacular, etc.

Privacy is expensive. 

	
From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
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From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.apps
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2018 21:05:10 -0500
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In article <lydbmkqc86f3$.1p6co9jwzyn5l$.dlg@40tude.net>, ultred
ragnusen<ultred@ragnusen.com> wrote:

> 
> changing IMEI
> numbers, 

that's illegal. 

	
From: ultred ragnusen <ultred@ragnusen.com>
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
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From: ultred ragnusen <ultred@ragnusen.com>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.apps
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
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nospam<nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

>> changing IMEI
>> numbers, 
> 
> that's illegal.

Nospam's utter lack of credibility is astounding.

What you seem to forget so easily is that we've had this discussion in
spades in the past, where, on Android at least, it's trivial to
automatically change your reported IMEI number on the fly, and where it's
/not/ illegal in most of the world, and, even where it is illegal (e.g., in
the UK), something like 3 people have been convicted in something like a
dozen years, where even the authors of the bill (whatever they call a law
in Parliment) said very clearly it was simply a /symbolic/ political
gesture (aka, a cheap political trick).

Thread: IMEI number 
URL: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/42JcaOY1NOo/lxVI...

Snippet:
Mr. Denham, Hansard, Mobile Telephones (Re-programming) Bill [Lords],
House of Commons Debate, 22 July 2002 vol 389 cc706-28, column 711
(
http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/2002/jul/22/mobile-telep...
): 

	
From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
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From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.apps
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
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In article <4iy38ejpmdp6$.1onbjo4t694lx$.dlg@40tude.net>, ultred
ragnusen<ultred@ragnusen.com> wrote:

> 
> >> changing IMEI
> >> numbers, 
> > 
> > that's illegal.
> 
> Nospam's utter lack of credibility is astounding.
> 
> What you seem to forget so easily is that we've had this discussion in
> spades in the past, where, on Android at least, it's trivial to
> automatically change your reported IMEI number on the fly, 

trivial or not (and it's not), it's still illegal. it's fraud. end of
story.

your attempts to rationalize illegal activities is noted. 

	
From: ultred ragnusen <ultred@ragnusen.com>
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
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From: ultred ragnusen <ultred@ragnusen.com>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.apps
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2018 18:52:14 -0800
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nospam<nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> trivial or not (and it's not), it's still illegal. it's fraud. end of
> story.

Again, your credibility is worthless to you.

In addition, your memory is about as good as Bill Clintons, as we've many
times discussed the elements (often 5) of fraud (depending on the type of
law involved), /all/ of which must be present, in order for an act to be
fraud.

 Anyone here with real-world experience changing your IMEI on Android? 
 https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/SGfZV6wbvcM/9XQh...

Simply changing your IMEI isn't fraud in /any/ country in the world, and
even where the act of changing an IMEI is considered fraud, it's just a
cheap political trick which we have proven in the past even the originators
of the law openly admit that all they wanted to do was 'send a message' but
where, as I recall, essentially zero /successful/ prosecutions resulted in
a dozen years in force.

> your attempts to rationalize illegal activities is noted.

Your credibility is worthless to you, as your statement that it's illegal
is patently false in almost the entire world, and even where it is illegal,
the law was never intended to be anything but a symbolic gesture ... 

Worse, you have absolutely no idea what constitutes fraud.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraud
http://www.houston-opinions.com/law-fraud.html
https://quizlet.com/19041431/5-elements-of-fraud-flash-cards/
https://www.reference.com/government-politics/five-elements-fraud-f3...
etc.

All of which have the same essential elements, depending on the type of law
involved and the jurisdiction, and where changing the IMEI is /never/ going
to be fraud any more than changing your underwear constitutes rape. 

	
From: ultred ragnusen <ultred@ragnusen.com>
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
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From: ultred ragnusen <ultred@ragnusen.com>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.apps
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
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ultred ragnusen<ultred@ragnusen.com> wrote:

> Simply changing your IMEI isn't fraud in /any/ country in the world, and
> even where the act of changing an IMEI is considered fraud, it's just a
> cheap political trick which we have proven in the past even the originators
> of the law openly admit that all they wanted to do was 'send a message' but
> where, as I recall, essentially zero /successful/ prosecutions resulted in
> a dozen years in force.

Correction due to haste in responding ... 

http://www.houston-opinions.com/law-fraud.html

Change: even where the act of changing an IMEI is considered fraud
To: even where the act of changing an IMEI is considered illegal 

	
From: Wolffan <akwolffan@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
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Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital, comp.sys.mac.system, comp.sys.mac.apps
References: <O3ulC.173256$mJ1.28255@fx13.fr7> <ffo2veFk7uiU3@mid.individual.net> <280220181127370843%nospam@nospam.invalid> <barmar-14256C.11355828022018@reader.eternal-september.org> <wuqbb214bj13.12wc1uwm78r8x.dlg@40tude.net> <280220181333394546%nospam@nospam.invalid> <18rprvf1e3kqf.ewl8o6i04y7n$.dlg@40tude.net> <barmar-80C0B4.11295201032018@reader.eternal-september.org> <010320181409015883%star@sky.net> <lydbmkqc86f3$.1p6co9jwzyn5l$.dlg@40tude.net> <010320182105106491%nospam@nospam.invalid> <4iy38ejpmdp6$.1onbjo4t694lx$.dlg@40tude.net> <010320182127427585%nospam@nospam.invalid>
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On 01Mar 2018, nospam wrote
(in article<010320182127427585%nospam@nospam.invalid>):

> In article<4iy38ejpmdp6$.1onbjo4t694lx$.dlg@40tude.net>, ultred
> ragnusen<ultred@ragnusen.com>  wrote:
>
> >
> > > > changing IMEI
> > > > numbers,
> > >
> > > that's illegal.
> >
> > Nospam's utter lack of credibility is astounding.
> >
> > What you seem to forget so easily is that we've had this discussion in
> > spades in the past, where, on Android at least, it's trivial to
> > automatically change your reported IMEI number on the fly,
>
> trivial or not (and it's not), it's still illegal.

not around here it’s not.
> it's fraud.

no, it’s not. Fraud is deliberate deception to secure unfair or unlawful 
gain, or to deprive a victim of a legal right. The mere act of changing the 
IMEI does not gain someone anything whatsoever and does not deprive anyone of 
anything. Now, changing the IMEI _after stealing a device_, that hinders 
someone from locating his lawful property... but that’s not fraud, that’s 
furtherance of theft. Changing the IMEI on your own device isn’t fraud. 
You’re not gaining anything. If anything, you’re _losing_; many cellcos 
use the IMEI to track which devices can use their networks, so changing the 
IMEI may result in you not being able to access the network unless and until 
you change it back.
> end of
> story.
>
> your attempts to rationalize illegal activities is noted.

your continued, wildly successful, attempts to be a bloody twit are noted. 

	
From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
Full headers:
Path: news.netfront.net!goblin3!goblin1!goblin.stu.neva.ru!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.apps
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2018 08:10:25 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <020320180810250809%nospam@nospam.invalid>
References: <O3ulC.173256$mJ1.28255@fx13.fr7> <ffo2veFk7uiU3@mid.individual.net> <280220181127370843%nospam@nospam.invalid> <barmar-14256C.11355828022018@reader.eternal-september.org> <wuqbb214bj13.12wc1uwm78r8x.dlg@40tude.net> <280220181333394546%nospam@nospam.invalid> <18rprvf1e3kqf.ewl8o6i04y7n$.dlg@40tude.net> <barmar-80C0B4.11295201032018@reader.eternal-september.org> <010320181409015883%star@sky.net> <lydbmkqc86f3$.1p6co9jwzyn5l$.dlg@40tude.net> <010320182105106491%nospam@nospam.invalid> <4iy38ejpmdp6$.1onbjo4t694lx$.dlg@40tude.net> <010320182127427585%nospam@nospam.invalid> <0001HW.2049645602DBA353700007E892CF@news.supernews.com>
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In article<0001HW.2049645602DBA353700007E892CF@news.supernews.com>,
Wolffan<akwolffan@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > > > changing IMEI
> > > > > numbers,
> > > >
> > > > that's illegal.
> > >
> > > Nospam's utter lack of credibility is astounding.
> > >
> > > What you seem to forget so easily is that we've had this discussion in
> > > spades in the past, where, on Android at least, it's trivial to
> > > automatically change your reported IMEI number on the fly,
> >
> > trivial or not (and it's not), it's still illegal.
> 
> not around here it 

	
From: ultred ragnusen <ultred@ragnusen.com>
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
Full headers:
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From: ultred ragnusen <ultred@ragnusen.com>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.apps
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2018 15:04:36 -0800
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Wolffan<akwolffan@gmail.com> wrote:

> Fraud is deliberate deception to secure unfair or unlawful 
> gain, or to deprive a victim of a legal right.

The readers will note that nospam has been told many times that fraud
contains /multiple/ elements, /all/ of which must be present for it to be
considered fraud.

(1) A material representation was made; 
(2) the representation was false; 
(3) the speaker knew it was false;
(4) the speaker intended the other party should act upon it; 
(5) the party acted in reliance on the representation; 
(6) the party thereby suffered injury.
http://www.houston-opinions.com/law-fraud.html

Simply changing your IMEI isn't and never was fraud, and, even in the UK,
where it is an illegal act, it's only symbolic in that the law is almost
completely never enforced in the dozen years it has been in existence (and
it was never intended to be enforced because it was clearly stated to
simply "send a message" by the originators themselves).

Nonetheless, nospam, because of the strange way his mind works, has no
concept of privacy, where he thinks every action anyone takes is to cause
someone harm and yet - when Apple causes harm - he defends Apple's actions
with his very life. 

Odd chap that nospam seems to be. 

	
From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
Full headers:
Path: news.netfront.net!goblin1!goblin2!goblin.stu.neva.ru!news.unit0.net!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.apps
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2018 18:14:24 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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In article <wyleuwp5xa6o$.90v1b8hoxxtu$.dlg@40tude.net>, ultred
ragnusen<ultred@ragnusen.com> wrote:

> 
> > Fraud is deliberate deception to secure unfair or unlawful 
> > gain, or to deprive a victim of a legal right.
> 
> The readers will note that nospam has been told many times that fraud
> contains /multiple/ elements, /all/ of which must be present for it to be
> considered fraud.

altering an imei meets all of them.

> (1) A material representation was made; 

the altered imei.

> (2) the representation was false; 

the imei is not the original, therefore false.

> (3) the speaker knew it was false;

it was knowingly altered. 

> (4) the speaker intended the other party should act upon it; 

the other party being the cellular carrier.

> (5) the party acted in reliance on the representation; 

and they did, thinking you had a different phone than the one you
actually had.

> (6) the party thereby suffered injury.

providing service to which you are not entitled.

fraud. 

	
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model InExistence
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From: PeterN <"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.apps
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In
Existence
Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2018 14:44:44 -0500
Organization: NewsGuy.com
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On 3/2/2018 6:04 PM, ultred ragnusen wrote:
> Wolffan<akwolffan@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Fraud is deliberate deception to secure unfair or unlawful
>> gain, or to deprive a victim of a legal right.
> 
> The readers will note that nospam has been told many times that fraud
> contains /multiple/ elements, /all/ of which must be present for it to be
> considered fraud.
> 
> (1) A material representation was made;
> (2) the representation was false;
> (3) the speaker knew it was false;
> (4) the speaker intended the other party should act upon it;
> (5) the party acted in reliance on the representation;
> (6) the party thereby suffered injury.
> http://www.houston-opinions.com/law-fraud.html
> 
> Simply changing your IMEI isn't and never was fraud, and, even in the UK,
> where it is an illegal act, it's only symbolic in that the law is almost
> completely never enforced in the dozen years it has been in existence (and
> it was never intended to be enforced because it was clearly stated to
> simply "send a message" by the originators themselves).

In the US, it may very well be fraud, however, I will not go into the 
details, as to why, because that is off topic.
As I said earlier, get back to photography. I suspect that the The vast 
majority here do not want to listen to you commenting on what kind of a 
person nospam, or anyone else is. That applies to nospam's responses 
claiming what kind of a person you, are.

> 
> Nonetheless, nospam, because of the strange way his mind works, has no
> concept of privacy, where he thinks every action anyone takes is to cause
> someone harm and yet - when Apple causes harm - he defends Apple's actions
> with his very life.
> 
> Odd chap that nospam seems to be.
> 


-- 
PeterN 

	
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model InExistence
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From: PeterN <"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.apps
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In
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On 3/1/2018 9:27 PM, nospam wrote:
> In article <4iy38ejpmdp6$.1onbjo4t694lx$.dlg@40tude.net>, ultred
> ragnusen<ultred@ragnusen.com> wrote:
> 
>>
>>>> changing IMEI
>>>> numbers,
>>>
>>> that's illegal.
>>
>> Nospam's utter lack of credibility is astounding.
>>
>> What you seem to forget so easily is that we've had this discussion in
>> spades in the past, where, on Android at least, it's trivial to
>> automatically change your reported IMEI number on the fly,
> 
> trivial or not (and it's not), it's still illegal. it's fraud. end of
> story.

Murder is also illegal. According to your statements, there are no 
murders, or robberies, because they are illegal.


-- 
PeterN 

	
From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
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From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.apps
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2018 10:18:17 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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In article<p7bp7001gql@news4.newsguy.com>, PeterN
<"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net> wrote:

> >>>> changing IMEI
> >>>> numbers,
> >>>
> >>> that's illegal.
> >>
> >> Nospam's utter lack of credibility is astounding.
> >>
> >> What you seem to forget so easily is that we've had this discussion in
> >> spades in the past, where, on Android at least, it's trivial to
> >> automatically change your reported IMEI number on the fly,
> > 
> > trivial or not (and it's not), it's still illegal. it's fraud. end of
> > story.
> 
> Murder is also illegal. According to your statements, there are no 
> murders, or robberies, because they are illegal.

i never said any such thing. 

	
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model InExistence
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From: PeterN <"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.apps
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In
Existence
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2018 12:54:30 -0500
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On 3/2/2018 10:18 AM, nospam wrote:
> In article<p7bp7001gql@news4.newsguy.com>, PeterN
> <"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net> wrote:
> 
>>>>>> changing IMEI
>>>>>> numbers,
>>>>>
>>>>> that's illegal.
>>>>
>>>> Nospam's utter lack of credibility is astounding.
>>>>
>>>> What you seem to forget so easily is that we've had this discussion in
>>>> spades in the past, where, on Android at least, it's trivial to
>>>> automatically change your reported IMEI number on the fly,
>>>
>>> trivial or not (and it's not), it's still illegal. it's fraud. end of
>>> story.
>>
>> Murder is also illegal. According to your statements, there are no
>> murders, or robberies, because they are illegal.
> 
> i never said any such thing.
> 

Of course not. Sorry, I forgot. I am not permitted to show you wrong by 
drawing a logical parallel.


-- 
PeterN 

	
From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
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From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.apps
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2018 13:14:08 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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In article<p7c2l901keq@news7.newsguy.com>, PeterN
<"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net> wrote:

> >>>>>> changing IMEI
> >>>>>> numbers,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> that's illegal.
> >>>>
> >>>> Nospam's utter lack of credibility is astounding.
> >>>>
> >>>> What you seem to forget so easily is that we've had this discussion in
> >>>> spades in the past, where, on Android at least, it's trivial to
> >>>> automatically change your reported IMEI number on the fly,
> >>>
> >>> trivial or not (and it's not), it's still illegal. it's fraud. end of
> >>> story.
> >>
> >> Murder is also illegal. According to your statements, there are no
> >> murders, or robberies, because they are illegal.
> > 
> > i never said any such thing.
> 
> Of course not. Sorry, I forgot. I am not permitted to show you wrong by 
> drawing a logical parallel.

it's not a logical parallel.

a logical parallel would be changing the serial number of a gun:
<https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/5861>
  It shall be unlawful for any person 

	
From: Ken Hart <kwhart1@frontier.com>
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model InExistence
Full headers:
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From: Ken Hart <kwhart1@frontier.com>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.apps
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In
Existence
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2018 14:06:22 -0500
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On 03/02/2018 01:14 PM, nospam wrote:
> In article<p7c2l901keq@news7.newsguy.com>, PeterN
> <"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net> wrote:
> 
>>>>>>>> changing IMEI
>>>>>>>> numbers,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> that's illegal.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nospam's utter lack of credibility is astounding.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What you seem to forget so easily is that we've had this discussion in
>>>>>> spades in the past, where, on Android at least, it's trivial to
>>>>>> automatically change your reported IMEI number on the fly,
>>>>>
>>>>> trivial or not (and it's not), it's still illegal. it's fraud. end of
>>>>> story.
>>>>
>>>> Murder is also illegal. According to your statements, there are no
>>>> murders, or robberies, because they are illegal.
>>>
>>> i never said any such thing.
>>
>> Of course not. Sorry, I forgot. I am not permitted to show you wrong by
>> drawing a logical parallel.
> 
> it's not a logical parallel.
> 
> a logical parallel would be changing the serial number of a gun:
> <https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/5861>
>    It shall be unlawful for any person‹
> ...
>    (g) to obliterate, remove, change, or alter the serial number or
>    other identification of a firearm required by this chapter; or
>    (h) to receive or possess a firearm having the serial number or other
>    identification required by this chapter obliterated, removed,
>    changed, or altered; or
>    (i) to receive or possess a firearm which is not identified by a
>    serial number as required by this chapter; or
> 
> another logical parallel would be changing the vin on a car:
> <https://www.justice.gov/usam/criminal-resource-manual-1364-altering-...
> removing-motor-vehicle-identification-numbers>
>    Section 511(a) of Title 18 makes it a felony knowingly to remove,
>    obliterate, tamper with, or alter an identification number for a road
>    motor vehicle or a road motor vehicle part. Section 511(b) of Title
>    18 creates exceptions for certain persons who engage in lawful
>    conduct that may result in removal or alteration of an identification
>    number. The legislative history is abundantly clear that subsection
>    (b) is not intended to create a loophole for the operators of "chop
>    shops." See H.R.Rep. No. 1087 on H.R. 6257, 98th Congress, 2d Sess.
>    23-25 (1984).
> 
> yet another logical parallel would be to swap license plates. see how
> well that works out for you when a cop runs the plates and sees it
> doesn't match the vehicle.
> 

Committing an illegal act is one thing, enforcement is another.

I have a pistol laying on the shelf right now. I could take it into my 
garage and remove the serial number. So long as I don't get caught with 
that un-numbered firearm, nothing will happen to me.
(For the record, my pistol has it's serial number intact, and I have a 
concealed carry permit for it.)

A couple months ago, I was stopped for speeding, eight miles over the 
posted speed limit, an illegal action. (A fairly deserted straight 
stretch of county road.) The officer took my paperwork, ran my plates 
and license, came back to my truck, and told me to watch my speed in the 
future. He choose not to enforce.

In the real world, where the rest of us live, illegal things happen all 
the time, and sometimes without consequence.



-- 
Ken Hart
kwhart1@frontier.com 

	
From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
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From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.apps
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2018 15:57:59 -0500
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In article <p7c7bd$9k0$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Ken Hart<kwhart1@frontier.com> wrote:

> Committing an illegal act is one thing, enforcement is another.

obviously, but lax enforcement doesn't change an illegal act into a
legal one.

> I have a pistol laying on the shelf right now. I could take it into my 
> garage and remove the serial number. So long as I don't get caught with 
> that un-numbered firearm, nothing will happen to me.
> (For the record, my pistol has it's serial number intact, and I have a 
> concealed carry permit for it.)
> 
> A couple months ago, I was stopped for speeding, eight miles over the 
> posted speed limit, an illegal action. (A fairly deserted straight 
> stretch of county road.) The officer took my paperwork, ran my plates 
> and license, came back to my truck, and told me to watch my speed in the 
> future. He choose not to enforce.

he *did* enforce the law, which is why you were detained. 

police have the discretion to issue a verbal warning, a written
warning, a written citation or even arrest you if it's considered
reckless.

regardless of what they decide, the contact is on your record (at least
as far as the police goes), and should you be pulled over again, that
officer will see the previous warning (and any other contacts) and may
decide another warning is not sufficient.

> In the real world, where the rest of us live, illegal things happen all 
> the time, and sometimes without consequence.

nobody said otherwise. however, that doesn't make it legal.

look no further than the clowns in washington d.c. for examples. there
are also those who literally get away with murder, some even profiting
from it. 

	
From: ultred ragnusen <ultred@ragnusen.com>
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
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From: ultred ragnusen <ultred@ragnusen.com>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.apps
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2018 14:15:18 -0800
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Ken Hart<kwhart1@frontier.com> wrote:

> I have a pistol laying on the shelf right now. I could take it into my 
> garage and remove the serial number. So long as I don't get caught with 
> that un-numbered firearm, nothing will happen to me.
> (For the record, my pistol has it's serial number intact, and I have a 
> concealed carry permit for it.)

We already had this discussion ages ago on the Android and iOS newsgroups,
where I posited that the mere fact that a law exists against a number (such
as that of your pistol or a VIN law or that UK law) is /already/ an
admission that something has gone very wrong with the system.

Hear me out, since this is a philosophical argument that the mere fact that
the UK has created a law that isn't even intended to be enforced so much as
it's really intended to "send a message" means, in and of itself, that
something is wrong with the system.

The same parallel holds for your gun serial number. It's actually illegal,
I think, in the USA, to erase the serial number, is it not? Why might you
ask is there a law, essentially, against a number?

It's because the system uses that cheap trick, just as they got Al Capone
on tax evasion or racketeering (whatever they got him on - it wasn't for
murder), because they can't catch people doing the real criminal acts. 

The system is broken - so - as a cheap political trick - they make a law
against a number.

The same law-against-a-number does NOT happen in the USA with cars, or with
license plates, but, many people (like nospam) /think/ it happens with cars
and license plates.

For example, I have a large private property and a car. 
It's perfectly legal for me to change my VIN or change my license plate,
and drive around my private property. 

What's illegal is to change them and then drive on a public road, but
that's a different law than simply changing the VIN.

So, my parallel is that changing an IMEI and /then/ selling a stolen phone
whose IMEI you changed, has a series of illegal acts, where the act of
selling the stolen phone is the illegality, not the act of changing the
IMEI (in the USA).

If you change your IMEI on your spare phone in your drawer, which I've
done, that's not illegal except in the UK, where I posit that the system
has broken down such that they felt the /need/ for such a silly law in the
UK, where even they don't enforce it in the UK. 

	
From: Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz>
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
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From: Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz>
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Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
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On Thu, 1 Mar 2018 18:02:39 -0800, ultred ragnusen<ultred@ragnusen.com> wrote:

>Davoud<star@sky.net> wrote:
>
>> This conversation entirely misses the point. As I have pointed out, the
>> "threat" does not come from the US government, which is utterly
>> uninterested in what you do on-line.
>
>You bring up a valid point, which is that the US Government is probably one
>of the minor threats we US citizens face - but it's one whom we /pay/
>hard-earned dollars to /protect/ us, where they take the easy way out by
>surveiling us instead.
>
>> Amazon, Facebook, Google, and myriad other commercial enterprises, on
>> the other hand, are very much interested in what you are doing on-line
>> and they have the means of tracking you. 
>
>True that.
>
>Again, the weak link in /all/ consumer mobile devices is the same in this
>case in that Amazon isn't ever going to go frontal with a brute-force
>attack on nospam's vaunted encryption algorithm, which forms the imaginary
>basis of his entire belief system.
>
>> Got a medical condition and
>> using the Internet to learn more about it? Noted. Interested in buying
>> a car? Noted. Traveling? Location and dates noted.* In fact, anything
>> and everything that could conceivably enable a commercial enterprise
>> make a few pennies from your personal information is noted.
>
>True dat. 
>
>Everything is tied together by the commercial aggregators, such that the
>metadata /is/ the data, where, again, I simply posit that, despite the
>brand X marketing mantra that nospam loves to spew, /all/ consumer-grade
>mobile devices suffer from the same set of weak links.

You keep saying that but I'm not sure that you are entirely correct.
All of Qualcomm's more advanced processors make use of embedded
hardware to protect against side channel and other attacks. I believe
Apple may employ their own hardware for similar protection. Qualcom
are still selling their lower grade processors so it is inevitable
that there are many devices out there which are relatively
unprotected.
>
>> But it's not on a list under your name that someone prints out and has
>> fun reading; printer paper is not sold in 1000km rolls. The data is in
>> a virtually instantaneous computer-to-computer transaction in which an
>> intermediary enables targeted ads on your Internet-connected devices.
>
>True that.
>
>And, worse, the data is /stored/ somewhere, where it makes a juicy cache
>for someone /else/ to steal.
>
>As I recall, even your debug logs to Microsoft were being intercepted and
>stored, and sifted through for data such as your Ethernet MAC address (I'd
>have to look that one up).
>
>Hence, I posit, the weak link in /all/ consumer-grade computing devices is
>the same, despite brand X's admittedly obvious attempt to make it's loyal
>but extremely gullible customers believe that a frontal brute-force attack
>is the main danger.
>
>>  A few days ago I googled air fares to London. Within *seconds* web pages
>> that I visited were peppered with ads for airlines, rental cars, and
>> hotels.
>
>True that. The solution is difficult but it's like the solution to the most
>common cause of brake judder - which isn't to change the hardware or
>software, but to change your browsing habits (e.g., VPN, proxy, nyms,
>headers, etc.).
>
>> *Travel: if you have an E-ZPass or equivalent the issuer knows every
>> time you go through a toll booth. For that matter, authorities know
>> when you go through a toll booth even if you choose to use a slow lane;
>> your license plate is read by a camera.
>
>Yup. I once got a ticket for being in a lane on i580 near Livermore that I
>didn't even know was a toll lane, as the highway must be 8 lanes wide on
>each side at that point, so I was just cruising along with no traffic
>visible in the photo at a non-commute time. 
>
>The ticket was based merely off my license plate since there's no way I'd
>ever have those electronic payment systems in my vehicle. (I wonder, if you
>have one, can you easily turn it off? Or do you have to Faraday it?)
> 
>> How it is that the paranoids ignore commercial trackers and worry about
>> a disinterested government, I do not know. But then, I'm not paranoid.
>
>I'm not sure whom you're speaking about, but I agree with all your
>sentiments, where you have to remember almost all the responses from me
>were regarding nospam's marketing-inspired allegation that Brand X phones
>are safer simply because of the expense of the frontal attack, which would
>only realistically be done by a gobment organization.
>
>Outside of nospam's obvious blind allegiance to Brand X marketing mantra,
>you'll see me exhibit the same sentiment you do, which is that the threat
>is from a wealth of well-funded sources, such that no phone line is any
>safer than any other.
>
>All you can do to combat this threat is constant "privacy hygiene", such as
>changing IP addresses, changing nyms and email addresses, changing IMEI
>numbers, changing locations, providing false data, changing your
>vernacular, etc.
>
>Privacy is expensive.
-- 

Regards,

Eric Stevens 

	
From: Davoud <star@sky.net>
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
Full headers:
Path: news.netfront.net!goblin1!goblin.stu.neva.ru!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Davoud <star@sky.net>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.apps
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2018 23:41:37 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 32
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Davoud:
> >> *Travel: if you have an E-ZPass or equivalent the issuer knows every
> >> time you go through a toll booth. For that matter, authorities know
> >> when you go through a toll booth even if you choose to use a slow lane;
> >> your license plate is read by a camera.

ultred ragnusen:
> >The ticket was based merely off my license plate since there's no way I'd
> >ever have those electronic payment systems in my vehicle. (I wonder, if you
> >have one, can you easily turn it off? Or do you have to Faraday it?)

If you're not a paranoid conspiracy theorist you don't do anything with
it; you just use it to make travel more convenient.

> >All you can do to combat this threat is constant "privacy hygiene", such as
> >changing IP addresses, changing nyms and email addresses, changing IMEI
> >numbers, changing locations, providing false data, changing your
> >vernacular, etc.

If you're not a paranoid conspiracy theorist you don't do any of that.
It wouldn't hide you from a determined surveillant, anyway. 

I have a lot of friends and acquaintances around the world. It might
amuse you to know that I try to make myself easy to find on the
Internet. That's why this post, for example, carries my true name with
my valid email address.

-- 
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm 

	
From: David_B <David_B@nomail.afraid.org>
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model InExistence
Full headers:
Path: news.netfront.net!goblin2!goblin.stu.neva.ru!peer03.am4!peer.am4.highwinds-media.com!peer04.fr7!futter-mich.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!fx31.fr7.POSTED!not-for-mail
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In
Existence
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.apps
References: <O3ulC.173256$mJ1.28255@fx13.fr7>
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From: David_B <David_B@nomail.afraid.org>
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Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2018 10:45:16 +0000
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Print Article
Forward Article
On 02/03/2018 04:41, Davoud wrote:
> Davoud:
>>>> *Travel: if you have an E-ZPass or equivalent the issuer knows every
>>>> time you go through a toll booth. For that matter, authorities know
>>>> when you go through a toll booth even if you choose to use a slow lane;
>>>> your license plate is read by a camera.
> 
> ultred ragnusen:
>>> The ticket was based merely off my license plate since there's no way I'd
>>> ever have those electronic payment systems in my vehicle. (I wonder, if you
>>> have one, can you easily turn it off? Or do you have to Faraday it?)
> 
> If you're not a paranoid conspiracy theorist you don't do anything with
> it; you just use it to make travel more convenient.
> 
>>> All you can do to combat this threat is constant "privacy hygiene", such as
>>> changing IP addresses, changing nyms and email addresses, changing IMEI
>>> numbers, changing locations, providing false data, changing your
>>> vernacular, etc.
> 
> If you're not a paranoid conspiracy theorist you don't do any of that.
> It wouldn't hide you from a determined surveillant, anyway.
> 
> I have a lot of friends and acquaintances around the world. It might
> amuse you to know that I try to make myself easy to find on the
> Internet. That's why this post, for example, carries my true name with
> my valid email address.

I've thoroughly enjoyed exploring your web site. Your photographic skill 
is truly amazing, especially now that I'm using my new 27 inch iMac with 
Retina 5K display

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/dei

-- 
David B. 

	
From: David_B <David_B@nomail.afraid.org>
Subject: Photography at its best! (was - Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably)Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence)
Full headers:
Path: news.netfront.net!goblin1!goblin3!goblin2!goblin.stu.neva.ru!peer03.am4!peer.am4.highwinds-media.com!peer01.fr7!futter-mich.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!fx02.fr7.POSTED!not-for-mail
Subject: Photography at its best! (was - Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably)
Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.apps
References: <O3ulC.173256$mJ1.28255@fx13.fr7>
<ffo2veFk7uiU3@mid.individual.net> <280220181127370843%nospam@nospam.invalid>
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From: David_B <David_B@nomail.afraid.org>
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Print Article
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On 02/03/2018 10:45, David_B wrote:
[....]
> I've thoroughly enjoyed exploring your web site. Your photographic skill 
> is truly amazing, especially now that I'm using my new 27 inch iMac with 
> Retina 5K display
> 
> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/dei

Here's a 'taster' for anyone not familiar with your work:-

http://www.primordial-light.com/aves.html

Absolutely superb! :-) Thank you so much for sharing with others.

-- 
David B. 

	
From: Diesel <me@privacy.net>
Subject: Re: Photography at its best! (was - Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence)
Full headers:
Path: news.netfront.net!goblin2!goblin.stu.neva.ru!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed8.news.xs4all.nl!feeder.erje.net!2.eu.feeder.erje.net!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Diesel <me@privacy.net>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.apps,alt.computer.workshop
Subject: Re: Photography at its best! (was - Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence)
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2018 21:44:35 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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David_B<David_B@nomail.afraid.org> news:kmbmC.8578$18.5664@fx02.fr7
Fri, 02 Mar 2018 12:22:39 GMT in rec.photo.digital, wrote: 

> On 02/03/2018 10:45, David_B wrote:
> [....]
>> I've thoroughly enjoyed exploring your web site. Your
>> photographic skill is truly amazing, especially now that I'm
>> using my new 27 inch iMac with Retina 5K display
>> 
>> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/dei
> 
> Here's a 'taster' for anyone not familiar with your work:-
> 
> http://www.primordial-light.com/aves.html
> 
> Absolutely superb! :-) Thank you so much for sharing with others.

Concerning sharing with others.. Have you removed my unauthorized 
picture from your dropbox account yet David? It's my picture and I've 
officially told you several times now that you don't have permission 
to keep a copy and/or host/publish it elsewhere. Have you complied 
with my requests, yet, David?
 
I'm asking you this pointed question because it assists me in 
exposing you to this newsgroup for the type of stalking, copyright 
infringing, scumbag, you actually are. As the url below clearly 
states, you will copy other peoples things without their permission 
and do whatever the hell you want with them. It's only fair the 
individual you're stalking now is made aware of this. That and I 
can't help but notice your strong desire to 'make friends' here. 

They should all know what it is they'll be dealing with in the event 
they decide to befriend you. 

Don't become the next David Brooks cyberstalking victim! 
Visit https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php (10/10 WOT)  
to learn more. 

-- 
Don't become the next David Brooks cyberstalking victim! 
Visit https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php (10/10 WOT)  
to learn more. If you've already become a victim or know someone who 
has, you can provide the following information to them, your lawyer, 
local law enforcement, etc.
https://www.devon-cornwall.police.uk - His local police. Report?
David Brooks (BoaterDave)
Jersey Cottage 86 Granary Lane
Budleigh Salterton Devon EX9 6ER United Kingdom 
Phone: 44-1395-443340 (H) 07974-193550 (M) 
Email(s): davidandtrishab@btinternet.com, boaterdavetj@aol.com 

	
From: BurfordTJustice <burford/associate@uk.MI15>
Subject: Re: Photography at its best! (was - Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence)
Full headers:
Path: news.netfront.net!goblin2!goblin1!goblin.stu.neva.ru!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: "BurfordTJustice" <burford/associate@uk.MI15>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.apps,alt.computer.workshop
Subject: Re: Photography at its best! (was - Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence)
Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2018 06:51:30 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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the errand boi pops up again.






"Diesel"<me@privacy.net> wrote in message 
news:XnsA899AB18D566CHT1@qad51nTEAK.HucAEO2qYp688z0rz6P1kNo1.DMTI0lc...
: David_B<David_B@nomail.afraid.org> news:kmbmC.8578$18.5664@fx02.fr7
: Fri, 02 Mar 2018 12:22:39 GMT in rec.photo.digital, wrote:
:
: > On 02/03/2018 10:45, David_B wrote:
: > [....]
: >> I've thoroughly enjoyed exploring your web site. Your
: >> photographic skill is truly amazing, especially now that I'm
: >> using my new 27 inch iMac with Retina 5K display
: >>
: >> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/dei
: >
: > Here's a 'taster' for anyone not familiar with your work:-
: >
: > http://www.primordial-light.com/aves.html
: >
: > Absolutely superb! :-) Thank you so much for sharing with others.
:
: Concerning sharing with others.. Have you removed my unauthorized
: picture from your dropbox account yet David? It's my picture and I've
: officially told you several times now that you don't have permission
: to keep a copy and/or host/publish it elsewhere. Have you complied
: with my requests, yet, David?
:
: I'm asking you this pointed question because it assists me in
: exposing you to this newsgroup for the type of stalking, copyright
: infringing, scumbag, you actually are. As the url below clearly
: states, you will copy other peoples things without their permission
: and do whatever the hell you want with them. It's only fair the
: individual you're stalking now is made aware of this. That and I
: can't help but notice your strong desire to 'make friends' here.
:
: They should all know what it is they'll be dealing with in the event
: they decide to befriend you.
:
: Don't become the next David Brooks cyberstalking victim!
: Visit https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php (10/10 WOT)
: to learn more.
:
: -- 
: Don't become the next David Brooks cyberstalking victim!
: Visit https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php (10/10 WOT)
: to learn more. If you've already become a victim or know someone who
: has, you can provide the following information to them, your lawyer,
: local law enforcement, etc.
: https://www.devon-cornwall.police.uk - His local police. Report?
: David Brooks (BoaterDave)
: Jersey Cottage 86 Granary Lane
: Budleigh Salterton Devon EX9 6ER United Kingdom
: Phone: 44-1395-443340 (H) 07974-193550 (M)
: Email(s): davidandtrishab@btinternet.com, boaterdavetj@aol.com 

	
From: Diesel <me@privacy.net>
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
Full headers:
Path: news.netfront.net!goblin2!goblin.stu.neva.ru!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed9.news.xs4all.nl!2a00:1d38:fa:feed::184.MISMATCH!feed.usenet.farm!feeder4.feed.usenet.farm!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Diesel <me@privacy.net>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.apps
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2018 21:44:35 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 60
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David_B<David_B@nomail.afraid.org>
news:3X9mC.57523$nz6.10068@fx31.fr7 Fri, 02 Mar 2018 10:45:16 GMT in
rec.photo.digital, wrote: 

> On 02/03/2018 04:41, Davoud wrote:
>> Davoud:
>>>>> *Travel: if you have an E-ZPass or equivalent the issuer knows
>>>>> every time you go through a toll booth. For that matter,
>>>>> authorities know when you go through a toll booth even if you
>>>>> choose to use a slow lane; your license plate is read by a
>>>>> camera. 
>> 
>> ultred ragnusen:
>>>> The ticket was based merely off my license plate since there's
>>>> no way I'd ever have those electronic payment systems in my
>>>> vehicle. (I wonder, if you have one, can you easily turn it
>>>> off? Or do you have to Faraday it?) 
>> 
>> If you're not a paranoid conspiracy theorist you don't do
>> anything with it; you just use it to make travel more convenient.
>> 
>>>> All you can do to combat this threat is constant "privacy
>>>> hygiene", such as changing IP addresses, changing nyms and
>>>> email addresses, changing IMEI numbers, changing locations,
>>>> providing false data, changing your vernacular, etc.
>> 
>> If you're not a paranoid conspiracy theorist you don't do any of
>> that. It wouldn't hide you from a determined surveillant, anyway.
>> 
>> I have a lot of friends and acquaintances around the world. It
>> might amuse you to know that I try to make myself easy to find on
>> the Internet. That's why this post, for example, carries my true
>> name with my valid email address.
> 
> I've thoroughly enjoyed exploring your web site. Your photographic
> skill is truly amazing, especially now that I'm using my new 27
> inch iMac with Retina 5K display
> 
> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/dei
> 

Oh cripes. You've found another potential stalking victim. And, 
sadly, they don't presently know what your gesture actually means for 
them. Hopefully they read this reply and checkout the links provided 
in my signature before responding to any emails/online form queries 
you've filled out.


-- 
Don't become the next David Brooks cyberstalking victim! 
Visit https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php (10/10 WOT)  
to learn more. If you've already become a victim or know someone who 
has, you can provide the following information to them, your lawyer, 
local law enforcement, etc.
https://www.devon-cornwall.police.uk - His local police. Report?
David Brooks (BoaterDave)
Jersey Cottage 86 Granary Lane
Budleigh Salterton Devon EX9 6ER United Kingdom 
Phone: 44-1395-443340 (H) 07974-193550 (M) 
Email(s): davidandtrishab@btinternet.com, boaterdavetj@aol.com 

	
From: Richard L. Hamilton <rlhamil@smart.net>
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
Full headers:
Path: news.netfront.net!goblin2!goblin.stu.neva.ru!weretis.net!feeder4.news.weretis.net!border2.nntp.ams1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!peer03.ams1!peer.ams1.xlned.com!news.xlned.com!peer03.am4!peer.am4.highwinds-media.com!peer02.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!post02.iad!fx22.iad.POSTED!not-for-mail
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From: rlhamil@smart.net (Richard L. Hamilton)
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.apps
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In article<wuqbb214bj13.12wc1uwm78r8x.dlg@40tude.net>,
	ultred ragnusen<ultred@ragnusen.com> writes:
> Barry Margolin<barmar@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
> 
>>> 
>>>> Yet another good reason to use a dumb flip phone.
>>> 
>>> definitely not. those are *far* easier to crack. they aren't even
>>> encrypted.
>> 
>> But you probably don't have much incriminating data on it in the first 
>> place.
> 
> I agree with the sentiment to not /put/ incriminating data on a phone,
> where a dumb phone will naturally contain far less automatically generating
> data in the first place.
> 
> But I bring up the sentiment that anyone who thinks /any/ phone is /safe/
> is a fool, because, for a criminal anyway, the biggest incrimination is
> simply the ping to the cellular tower that makes a cell phone work as a
> cell phone.
> 
> Those who /feel/ safer with brand X phones versus brand Y phones because
> the marketing of brand X is better than brand Y, I posit, are fools,
> because the weakest set of links of all cell phones are the same.

The weakest part of any device is the wetware - the person operating it. 

	
From: David_B <David_B@nomail.afraid.org>
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model InExistence
Full headers:
Path: news.netfront.net!goblin2!goblin.stu.neva.ru!news.fcku.it!peer01.fr7!futter-mich.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!fx03.fr7.POSTED!not-for-mail
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In
Existence
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.apps
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Print Article
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On 06/03/2018 21:05, Richard L. Hamilton wrote:
> In article<wuqbb214bj13.12wc1uwm78r8x.dlg@40tude.net>,
> 	ultred ragnusen<ultred@ragnusen.com> writes:
>> Barry Margolin<barmar@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>>> Yet another good reason to use a dumb flip phone.
>>>>
>>>> definitely not. those are *far* easier to crack. they aren't even
>>>> encrypted.
>>>
>>> But you probably don't have much incriminating data on it in the first
>>> place.
>>
>> I agree with the sentiment to not /put/ incriminating data on a phone,
>> where a dumb phone will naturally contain far less automatically generating
>> data in the first place.
>>
>> But I bring up the sentiment that anyone who thinks /any/ phone is /safe/
>> is a fool, because, for a criminal anyway, the biggest incrimination is
>> simply the ping to the cellular tower that makes a cell phone work as a
>> cell phone.
>>
>> Those who /feel/ safer with brand X phones versus brand Y phones because
>> the marketing of brand X is better than brand Y, I posit, are fools,
>> because the weakest set of links of all cell phones are the same.
> 
> The weakest part of any device is the wetware - the person operating it.

True!

Listen here:  	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhZv3QjmbdA

Enjoy!  :-) 

	
From: David_B <David_B@nomail.afraid.org>
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model InExistence
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Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In
Existence
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.apps
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Print Article
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On 07/03/2018 11:45, David_B wrote:
> On 06/03/2018 21:05, Richard L. Hamilton wrote:
>> In article<wuqbb214bj13.12wc1uwm78r8x.dlg@40tude.net>,
>>     ultred ragnusen<ultred@ragnusen.com> writes:
>>> Barry Margolin<barmar@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Yet another good reason to use a dumb flip phone.
>>>>>
>>>>> definitely not. those are *far* easier to crack. they aren't even
>>>>> encrypted.
>>>>
>>>> But you probably don't have much incriminating data on it in the first
>>>> place.
>>>
>>> I agree with the sentiment to not /put/ incriminating data on a phone,
>>> where a dumb phone will naturally contain far less automatically 
>>> generating
>>> data in the first place.
>>>
>>> But I bring up the sentiment that anyone who thinks /any/ phone is 
>>> /safe/
>>> is a fool, because, for a criminal anyway, the biggest incrimination is
>>> simply the ping to the cellular tower that makes a cell phone work as a
>>> cell phone.
>>>
>>> Those who /feel/ safer with brand X phones versus brand Y phones because
>>> the marketing of brand X is better than brand Y, I posit, are fools,
>>> because the weakest set of links of all cell phones are the same.
>>
>> The weakest part of any device is the wetware - the person operating it.
> 
> True!
> 
> Listen here:      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhZv3QjmbdA
> 
> Enjoy!  :-)

The woman in this video looks like she is completely at home outside in 
the winter snow. Three-time bronze medalist and Olympic alternate 
Elizabeth Putnam may have spent much of her life practicing and 
competing on the world’s best rinks, but she’s most comfortable skating 
on a frozen lake in the middle of the wilderness.

The stark, stunning beauty of the mountains of British Columbia is the 
perfect backdrop for her exceptional skating talent. The ice of the 
frozen lake is not perfectly groomed, and the outdoor temperature is not 
carefully maintained, but Elizabeth skates as if she is competing for a 
gold medal — perhaps even better. Without the pressure of competition, 
she can embrace the grace and emotion that accompanies her skating.

This particular frozen lake is at an elevation of 2,500 feet and can 
only be reached by helicopter. Pilot Bradley Friesen not only delivers 
her, but it is from his helicopter that this uniquely stunning video is 
captured.

http://videostory.dkn.tv/life/woman-skates-frozen-lake-camera-zooms...

Enjoy! 

	
From: Davoud <star@sky.net>
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
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From: Davoud <star@sky.net>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.apps
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2018 13:11:41 -0500
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Barry Margolin:
> But you probably don't have much incriminating data on it in the first 
> place.

As I am not a criminal, I have no incriminating data, digital or other.

As a professional who has a deep understanding of SIGINT and
surveillance after 32 years in the business, my fear that the US
government might want to crack my iPhone ranks well below my fear that
I will be pecked to death by marauding peacocks that I disturbed while
fleeing an incoming asteroid.
<https://www.flickr.com/photos/primeval/13024995215>

-- 
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm 

	
From: ultred ragnusen <ultred@ragnusen.com>
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
Full headers:
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From: ultred ragnusen <ultred@ragnusen.com>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.apps
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2018 13:38:15 -0800
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Davoud<star@sky.net> wrote:

> As a professional who has a deep understanding of SIGINT and
> surveillance after 32 years in the business, my fear that the US
> government might want to crack my iPhone ranks well below my fear that
> I will be pecked to death by marauding peacocks that I disturbed while
> fleeing an incoming asteroid.

I think we all have a relatively deep understanding of SIGINT where anyone
who wishes to put the bits together can piece together rather easily our
actions.

For example, let's say you're not a criminal, but that you want to run for
office, but you visited that lady of ill repute or that young man on Friday
afternoon, or even that doctor who specializes in venereal diseases last
Saturday or maybe just that you recently searched on your phone for a size
10 dress when your wife has a size 0 frame.

The point of those imaginary examples is just that there are lots of things
that aren't illegal that people do that should still be kept private from
prying eyes. 

	
From: Davoud <star@sky.net>
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
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From: Davoud <star@sky.net>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.apps
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
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Davoud:
> > As a professional who has a deep understanding of SIGINT and
> > surveillance after 32 years in the business, my fear that the US
> > government might want to crack my iPhone ranks well below my fear that
> > I will be pecked to death by marauding peacocks that I disturbed while
> > fleeing an incoming asteroid.

ultred ragnusen:
> I think we all have a relatively deep understanding of SIGINT where anyone
> who wishes to put the bits together can piece together rather easily our
> actions.

If you think that you are delusional. You haven't even got a very
shallow understanding of SIGINT collection and processing. Persons
outside the community know as much about SIGINT as they do about
neurosurgery. Less, potentially, as the entire body of knowledge on
neurosurgery is publicly available.

-- 
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm 

	
From: ultred ragnusen <ultred@ragnusen.com>
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
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From: ultred ragnusen <ultred@ragnusen.com>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.apps
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
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Davoud<star@sky.net> wrote:

> If you think that you are delusional. You haven't even got a very
> shallow understanding of SIGINT collection and processing. Persons
> outside the community know as much about SIGINT as they do about
> neurosurgery. Less, potentially, as the entire body of knowledge on
> neurosurgery is publicly available.

Are you trying to say that all phones are safe then?
Or that some consumer grade phones are safe?
Or that none are safe?

Get to the point. 

	
From: David_B <David_B@nomail.afraid.org>
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model InExistence
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On 01/03/2018 05:10, ultred ragnusen wrote:
> Davoud<star@sky.net> wrote:
> 
>> If you think that you are delusional. You haven't even got a very
>> shallow understanding of SIGINT collection and processing. Persons
>> outside the community know as much about SIGINT as they do about
>> neurosurgery. Less, potentially, as the entire body of knowledge on
>> neurosurgery is publicly available.
> 
> Are you trying to say that all phones are safe then?
> Or that some consumer grade phones are safe?
> Or that none are safe?
> 
> Get to the point.

No doubt you have read here .....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signals_intelligence

The point, I'm sure, is that *NO* 'phone is 'safe' from the eyes and 
ears of those who are tasked to monitor us.

HTH

-- 
David B. 

	
From: nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
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In article <r7OlC.4403$_S7.2371@fx20.fr7>, David_B<David_B@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:

> The point, I'm sure, is that *NO* 'phone is 'safe' from the eyes and 
> ears of those who are tasked to monitor us.

some are. 

	
From: ultred ragnusen <ultred@ragnusen.com>
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
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From: ultred ragnusen <ultred@ragnusen.com>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.apps
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2018 00:52:36 -0800
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David_B<David_B@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:

> The point, I'm sure, is that *NO* 'phone is 'safe' from the eyes and 
> ears of those who are tasked to monitor us.

I know that, and you know that, and anyone who is a logical thinker knows
that, but you'll hear /plenty/ of the owners of brand X scream out that
their wonderful brand X marketing organization makes them /feel/ safe from
those prying eyes.

Feelings are all that matter to they who will pay dearly for those wondrous
feeling of safety.

I liken it to the marketing mother telling the young scared child that the
monster can't get out of the closet if she just closes the closet door.

That makes the child /feel/ safe. 

	
From: David_B <David_B@nomail.afraid.org>
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model InExistence
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Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In
Existence
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On 01/03/2018 08:52, ultred ragnusen wrote:
> David_B<David_B@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
> 
>> The point, I'm sure, is that *NO* 'phone is 'safe' from the eyes and
>> ears of those who are tasked to monitor us.
> 
> I know that, and you know that, and anyone who is a logical thinker knows
> that, but you'll hear /plenty/ of the owners of brand X scream out that
> their wonderful brand X marketing organization makes them /feel/ safe from
> those prying eyes.
> 
> Feelings are all that matter to they who will pay dearly for those wondrous
> feeling of safety.
> 
> I liken it to the marketing mother telling the young scared child that the
> monster can't get out of the closet if she just closes the closet door.
> 
> That makes the child /feel/ safe.

:-D

FYI 
https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2018/02/28/if-any-phone-can-be-hack...

-- 
David B. 

	
From: Diesel <me@privacy.net>
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
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From: Diesel <me@privacy.net>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.apps
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
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David_B<David_B@nomail.afraid.org> news:r7OlC.4403$_S7.2371@fx20.fr7 
Thu, 01 Mar 2018 07:40:06 GMT in rec.photo.digital, wrote:

> The point, I'm sure, is that *NO* 'phone is 'safe' from the eyes and 
> ears of those who are tasked to monitor us.

Not true. 


-- 
Don't become the next David Brooks cyberstalking victim! 
Visit https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php (10/10 WOT)  
to learn more. If you've already become a victim or know someone who 
has, you can provide the following information to them, your lawyer, 
local law enforcement, etc.
https://www.devon-cornwall.police.uk - His local police. Report?
David Brooks (BoaterDave)
Jersey Cottage 86 Granary Lane
Budleigh Salterton Devon EX9 6ER United Kingdom 
Phone: 44-1395-443340 (H) 07974-193550 (M) 
Email(s): davidandtrishab@btinternet.com, boaterdavetj@aol.com 

	
From: Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz>
Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
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From: Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz>
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Subject: Re: The Feds Can Now (Probably) Unlock Every iPhone Model In Existence
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On Fri, 2 Mar 2018 21:44:36 -0000 (UTC), Diesel<me@privacy.net>
wrote:

>David_B<David_B@nomail.afraid.org> news:r7OlC.4403$_S7.2371@fx20.fr7 
>Thu, 01 Mar 2018 07:40:06 GMT in rec.photo.digital, wrote:
>
>> The point, I'm sure, is that *NO* 'phone is 'safe' from the eyes and 
>> ears of those who are tasked to monitor us.
>
>Not true. 

I think it is true.

The first piece of information which can be gained from a phone is
that it exists.

The next is the when and where of its existence.

Who it communicates with (or vice versa) is another piece of
information.
-- 

Regards,

Eric Stevens