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From: xyzzy <xyzzy.dude@gmail.com>
Subject: Anonymous ancestry DNA chat
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Subject: Anonymous ancestry DNA chat
From: xyzzy <xyzzy.dude@gmail.com>
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gf wants to do an Ancestry DNA test. I'm opposed to it because I don't trust the privacy and
security of the data.... the terms and conditions give them permission to do basically anything they
want with it including sell it (for example in the future they could sell to life insurance
companies the ability to know if you're genetically predisposed to a short life, etc).  And even if
their terms and conditions were acceptable, if they went bankrupt and their data was sold to the
highest bidder... no thanks. 
  
So I've decided to get her one for her birthday, but with what I think are the proper security
safeguards.  After a significant search I have not found any company or service that offers this
anonymously -- most likely because their real jackpot will be in selling the information to others.
So here is my plan:

Rent a mailbox at the UPS store
Use a Visa gift card to buy the kit under a fake name using a burner email address on the ancestry
web site.
Have the kits and results shipped to that fake name at the UPS store

Think this will work? My main questions now are: 
-- What would I use for a billing address on a VISA gift card?  I'm thinking the UPS store address
ought to work since gift cards don't have billing addresses. 
-- Also I assume the UPS store would be cool with me receiving a package for "someone else" at my
mailbox since I won't have an ID with the fake name. 

Note, I'm not looking for ironclad security here, just enough so that neither her nor my name or
address show up in any Ancestry database that might later be sold or transferred for reasons I don't
like, like to insurance companies. 

	
From: The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior <iamtj4life@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Anonymous ancestry DNA chat
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Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2018 11:33:07 -0800 (PST)
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Subject: Re: Anonymous ancestry DNA chat
From: "The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior" <iamtj4life@gmail.com>
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On Tuesday, January 2, 2018 at 1:18:48 PM UTC-6, xyzzy wrote:
> gf wants to do an Ancestry DNA test. I'm opposed to it because I don't trust the privacy and
security of the data.... the terms and conditions give them permission to do basically anything they
want with it including sell it (for example in the future they could sell to life insurance
companies the ability to know if you're genetically predisposed to a short life, etc).  And even if
their terms and conditions were acceptable, if they went bankrupt and their data was sold to the
highest bidder... no thanks. 
>   
> So I've decided to get her one for her birthday, but with what I think are the proper security
safeguards.  After a significant search I have not found any company or service that offers this
anonymously -- most likely because their real jackpot will be in selling the information to others.
So here is my plan:
> 
> Rent a mailbox at the UPS store
> Use a Visa gift card to buy the kit under a fake name using a burner email address on the ancestry
web site.
> Have the kits and results shipped to that fake name at the UPS store
> 
> Think this will work? My main questions now are: 
> -- What would I use for a billing address on a VISA gift card?  I'm thinking the UPS store address
ought to work since gift cards don't have billing addresses. 
> -- Also I assume the UPS store would be cool with me receiving a package for "someone else" at my
mailbox since I won't have an ID with the fake name. 
> 
> Note, I'm not looking for ironclad security here, just enough so that neither her nor my name or
address show up in any Ancestry database that might later be sold or transferred for reasons I don't
like, like to insurance companies.

I have no idea....

But - as an aside - it is amazing the difference between us old farts and the millennials when it
comes to privacy - the cheesechildren and their cohorts are like "whatevs, old man - here's some
tinfoil for ya" 

	
From: JGibson <james.m.gibson@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Anonymous ancestry DNA chat
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Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2018 11:37:13 -0800 (PST)
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Subject: Re: Anonymous ancestry DNA chat
From: JGibson <james.m.gibson@gmail.com>
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On Tuesday, January 2, 2018 at 2:33:11 PM UTC-5, The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 2, 2018 at 1:18:48 PM UTC-6, xyzzy wrote:
> > gf wants to do an Ancestry DNA test. I'm opposed to it because I don't trust the privacy and
security of the data.... the terms and conditions give them permission to do basically anything they
want with it including sell it (for example in the future they could sell to life insurance
companies the ability to know if you're genetically predisposed to a short life, etc)..  And even if
their terms and conditions were acceptable, if they went bankrupt and their data was sold to the
highest bidder... no thanks. 
> >   
> > So I've decided to get her one for her birthday, but with what I think are the proper security
safeguards.  After a significant search I have not found any company or service that offers this
anonymously -- most likely because their real jackpot will be in selling the information to others.
So here is my plan:
> > 
> > Rent a mailbox at the UPS store
> > Use a Visa gift card to buy the kit under a fake name using a burner email address on the
ancestry web site.
> > Have the kits and results shipped to that fake name at the UPS store
> > 
> > Think this will work? My main questions now are: 
> > -- What would I use for a billing address on a VISA gift card?  I'm thinking the UPS store
address ought to work since gift cards don't have billing addresses. 
> > -- Also I assume the UPS store would be cool with me receiving a package for "someone else" at
my mailbox since I won't have an ID with the fake name. 
> > 
> > Note, I'm not looking for ironclad security here, just enough so that neither her nor my name or
address show up in any Ancestry database that might later be sold or transferred for reasons I don't
like, like to insurance companies.
> 
> I have no idea....
> 
> But - as an aside - it is amazing the difference between us old farts and the millennials when it
comes to privacy - the cheesechildren and their cohorts are like "whatevs, old man - here's some
tinfoil for ya"

Back when I was in high school, in my law class, we had to choose which 5 of the ten amendments in
the Bill of Rights we would keep if aliens took over and gave us this option.  I was big on the 4th.
 It seems purposeless with this generation. 

	
From: Thomas R. Kettler <tkettler@blownfuse.net>
Subject: Re: Anonymous ancestry DNA chat
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From: "Thomas R. Kettler" <tkettler@blownfuse.net>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Re: Anonymous ancestry DNA chat
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2018 15:02:06 -0500
Organization: I dont have to show you any stinkin organization.
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In article<742dc3ef-6f42-490c-8102-a1c5639b4574@googlegroups.com>,
 JGibson<james.m.gibson@gmail.com> wrote:

> Back when I was in high school, in my law class, we had to choose which 5 of 
> the ten amendments in the Bill of Rights we would keep if aliens took over 
> and gave us this option.  I was big on the 4th.  It seems purposeless with 
> this generation.

Businesses demanding people take unreliable blood and urine tests as a 
condition of employment say hey.
-- 
Remove blown from email address to reply. 

	
From: xyzzy <xyzzy.dude@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Anonymous ancestry DNA chat
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Subject: Re: Anonymous ancestry DNA chat
From: xyzzy <xyzzy.dude@gmail.com>
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On Tuesday, January 2, 2018 at 2:18:48 PM UTC-5, xyzzy wrote:
> gf wants to do an Ancestry DNA test. I'm opposed to it because I don't trust the privacy and
security of the data.... the terms and conditions give them permission to do basically anything they
want with it including sell it (for example in the future they could sell to life insurance
companies the ability to know if you're genetically predisposed to a short life, etc).  And even if
their terms and conditions were acceptable, if they went bankrupt and their data was sold to the
highest bidder... no thanks. 
>   
> So I've decided to get her one for her birthday, but with what I think are the proper security
safeguards.  After a significant search I have not found any company or service that offers this
anonymously -- most likely because their real jackpot will be in selling the information to others.
So here is my plan:
> 
> Rent a mailbox at the UPS store
> Use a Visa gift card to buy the kit under a fake name using a burner email address on the ancestry
web site.
> Have the kits and results shipped to that fake name at the UPS store
> 
> Think this will work? My main questions now are: 
> -- What would I use for a billing address on a VISA gift card?  I'm thinking the UPS store address
ought to work since gift cards don't have billing addresses. 
> -- Also I assume the UPS store would be cool with me receiving a package for "someone else" at my
mailbox since I won't have an ID with the fake name. 
> 
> Note, I'm not looking for ironclad security here, just enough so that neither her nor my name or
address show up in any Ancestry database that might later be sold or transferred for reasons I don't
like, like to insurance companies.

Upon further review it looks like I can buy the kit under my own name, but activate and send it in
using a fake name, and just say it was a gift.  Then I can look up the results online without having
to receive mail in the fake name.  

That might work better and raise less unnecessary suspicion than trying to pick up mail under a fake
name at a UPS store. 

	
From: Thomas R. Kettler <tkettler@blownfuse.net>
Subject: Re: Anonymous ancestry DNA chat
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From: "Thomas R. Kettler" <tkettler@blownfuse.net>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Re: Anonymous ancestry DNA chat
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2018 14:55:01 -0500
Organization: I dont have to show you any stinkin organization.
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In article<697bb311-a7c7-49d3-b532-7a24c7302a11@googlegroups.com>,
 xyzzy<xyzzy.dude@gmail.com> wrote:

> gf wants to do an Ancestry DNA test. I'm opposed to it because I don't trust 
> the privacy and security of the data.... the terms and conditions give them 
> permission to do basically anything they want with it including sell it (for 
> example in the future they could sell to life insurance companies the ability 
> to know if you're genetically predisposed to a short life, etc).  And even if 
> their terms and conditions were acceptable, if they went bankrupt and their 
> data was sold to the highest bidder... no thanks. 
>   
> So I've decided to get her one for her birthday, but with what I think are 
> the proper security safeguards.  After a significant search I have not found 
> any company or service that offers this anonymously -- most likely because 
> their real jackpot will be in selling the information to others. So here is 
> my plan:
> 
> Rent a mailbox at the UPS store
> Use a Visa gift card to buy the kit under a fake name using a burner email 
> address on the ancestry web site.
> Have the kits and results shipped to that fake name at the UPS store
> 
> Think this will work? My main questions now are: 
> -- What would I use for a billing address on a VISA gift card?  I'm thinking 
> the UPS store address ought to work since gift cards don't have billing 
> addresses. 
> -- Also I assume the UPS store would be cool with me receiving a package for 
> "someone else" at my mailbox since I won't have an ID with the fake name. 
> 
> Note, I'm not looking for ironclad security here, just enough so that neither 
> her nor my name or address show up in any Ancestry database that might later 
> be sold or transferred for reasons I don't like, like to insurance companies.

You should use the name Mr. Ulick Norman Owen to rent the box at the UPS 
Store (I'm curious to see how many will know which novel this name 
references).
-- 
Remove blown from email address to reply. 

	
From: the_andrew_smith@yahoo.com <agavinsmith@gmail.com>
Subject: Anonymous ancestry DNA chat
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Subject: Anonymous ancestry DNA chat
From: "the_andrew_smith@yahoo.com" <agavinsmith@gmail.com>
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You've probably already signed away a blood sample to your insurer. 

But, your strategy sounds workable. 

	
From: xyzzy <xyzzy.dude@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Anonymous ancestry DNA chat
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Subject: Re: Anonymous ancestry DNA chat
From: xyzzy <xyzzy.dude@gmail.com>
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On Tuesday, January 2, 2018 at 3:09:35 PM UTC-5, the_andr...@yahoo.com wrote:
> You've probably already signed away a blood sample to your insurer. 

Possibly.  But HIPAA applies to them, and not to those private DNA testing companies. 

	
From: the_andrew_smith@yahoo.com <agavinsmith@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Anonymous ancestry DNA chat
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GINA covers you. 

	
From: J. Hugh Sullivan <Eagle@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Anonymous ancestry DNA chat
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From: Eagle@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Re: Anonymous ancestry DNA chat
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2018 20:11:58 GMT
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On Tue, 2 Jan 2018 11:18:44 -0800 (PST), xyzzy<xyzzy.dude@gmail.com>
wrote:

>gf wants to do an Ancestry DNA test. I'm opposed to it because I don't trus=
>t the privacy and security of the data.... the terms and conditions give th=
>em permission to do basically anything they want with it including sell it =
>(for example in the future they could sell to life insurance companies the =
>ability to know if you're genetically predisposed to a short life, etc).  A=
>nd even if their terms and conditions were acceptable, if they went bankrup=
>t and their data was sold to the highest bidder... no thanks. 

I need to pick up my granddaughter from school - I'll get back to you.

Hugh

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Google Playboy Triplets DNA, ignore several low-hanging jokes, and save your money. 

	
From: J. Hugh Sullivan <Eagle@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Anonymous ancestry DNA chat
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From: Eagle@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Re: Anonymous ancestry DNA chat
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On Tue, 2 Jan 2018 11:18:44 -0800 (PST), xyzzy<xyzzy.dude@gmail.com>
wrote:

>gf wants to do an Ancestry DNA test. 

If she is thinking of Ancestry ( the company) I would advise against
it. They are the most commercial company around. Their ancestry data
is harvested from anyone and everyone without regard to accuracy. One
has to be a very accomplished and diligent researcher to use their
genealogy data. For example Ancestry lists 9 different sets of parents
for my great, great grandfather and no one can prove who they were.
I'll bet my data against anyone.

My YDNA was tested by Family Tree DNA. I can't say they would not sell
the data under certain conditions but they are somewhat secure. Have
you looked at Geno - the National Geographic test group?

What is her purpose? Her DNA is mtDNA and will tell who her mother was
and her mother's mother ad infinitum. It does not work with male
genealogy - she needs a CLOSE male relative for that.

I know my dad and granddad's medical history. But advances in medicine
have changed my prospects. I don't have the same physical infirmaties
as my mother who never had surgery until she broke a hip at 83 and
died.

You are at the point where a little knowledge is a very dangerous
thing. And I think you are being overcautious.

I'm not an expert but, after more than 20 years I probably know more
than the average bear.

A guy here a few years ago IS an expert. His name? Ah disremember!

Hugh




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From: xyzzy <xyzzy.dude@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Anonymous ancestry DNA chat
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Subject: Re: Anonymous ancestry DNA chat
From: xyzzy <xyzzy.dude@gmail.com>
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On Tuesday, January 2, 2018 at 4:19:33 PM UTC-5, J. Hugh Sullivan wrote:
> On Tue, 2 Jan 2018 11:18:44 -0800 (PST), xyzzy<xyzzy.dude@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
> >gf wants to do an Ancestry DNA test. 
> 
> If she is thinking of Ancestry ( the company) I would advise against
> it. They are the most commercial company around. Their ancestry data
> is harvested from anyone and everyone without regard to accuracy. One
> has to be a very accomplished and diligent researcher to use their
> genealogy data. For example Ancestry lists 9 different sets of parents
> for my great, great grandfather and no one can prove who they were.
> I'll bet my data against anyone.
> 
> My YDNA was tested by Family Tree DNA. I can't say they would not sell
> the data under certain conditions but they are somewhat secure. Have
> you looked at Geno - the National Geographic test group?
> 
> What is her purpose? Her DNA is mtDNA and will tell who her mother was
> and her mother's mother ad infinitum. It does not work with male
> genealogy - she needs a CLOSE male relative for that.
> 
> I know my dad and granddad's medical history. But advances in medicine
> have changed my prospects. I don't have the same physical infirmaties
> as my mother who never had surgery until she broke a hip at 83 and
> died.
> 
> You are at the point where a little knowledge is a very dangerous
> thing. And I think you are being overcautious.
> 
> I'm not an expert but, after more than 20 years I probably know more
> than the average bear.
> 
> A guy here a few years ago IS an expert. His name? Ah disremember!
> 

She's not interested in building a detailed family tree.  Just knowing her general heritage (i.e.,
are the family stories that they are German true).  I don't think she needs the level of precision
you are discussing.  I've seen a bunch of reviews that Ancestry is the best choice for this because
they have the most data. 

	
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Subject: Re: Anonymous ancestry DNA chat
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One cautionary warning about ancestry.com: beware of their billing department. I signed up for an
account a few years ago because I wanted access to their newspaper archive for a project I was
working on. It was a good archive, but I found that 80% or more of the newspapers were available for
free elsewhere. Also, I lost interest in the project, so after 6 months or so, I cancelled my
subscription. It took me about 18 months to get ancestry.com to stop charging my credit card every 6
months. I got most but not all of the money back, but it was a hassle. 

	
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Subject: Re: Anonymous ancestry DNA chat
From: xyzzy <xyzzy.dude@gmail.com>
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On Tuesday, January 2, 2018 at 8:29:04 PM UTC-5, plai...@gmail.com wrote:
> One cautionary warning about ancestry.com: beware of their billing department. I signed up for an
account a few years ago because I wanted access to their newspaper archive for a project I was
working on. It was a good archive, but I found that 80% or more of the newspapers were available for
free elsewhere. Also, I lost interest in the project, so after 6 months or so, I cancelled my
subscription. It took me about 18 months to get ancestry.com to stop charging my credit card every 6
months. I got most but not all of the money back, but it was a hassle.

Thanks for the heads up, but I don't plan to buy a membership. At any rate any card I use with them
will be a Visa gift card with only about $100 on it. 

	
From: J. Hugh Sullivan <Eagle@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Anonymous ancestry DNA chat
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From: Eagle@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Re: Anonymous ancestry DNA chat
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2018 12:28:14 GMT
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On Tue, 2 Jan 2018 16:43:49 -0800 (PST), xyzzy<xyzzy.dude@gmail.com>
wrote:

>She's not interested in building a detailed family tree.  Just knowing her =
>general heritage (i.e., are the family stories that they are German true). =
> I don't think she needs the level of precision you are discussing.  I've s=
>een a bunch of reviews that Ancestry is the best choice for this because th=
>ey have the most data.

If most data is the primary reason for choice I understand the
selection.

I looked for accuracy and less commercialism that often involves
security.

My idea is not to influence your selection. It is more to cause you to
make the best choices based on a very thorough investigation. I think
the mtDNA test for her would be a great gift. At the same time you
both need to be more knowledgeable about what to reasonably expect to
not be disappointed.

Foolish as it may be I am considering a second test with Geno although
I think my ancestral conclusions are as good or better than any
generalized professional opinion.

I am a male descended from a Sullivan who descended from a Sullivan,
who descended from a Sullivan back to a Haplogroup in Anglo-Saxon
Germany hundreds of years ago. No matter that my birth mother was
probably the Sullivan but probably not my birth father. My wife
(Smith) descended from a Wheat, who descended from a Homan, who
descended from a Walker, who descended from a Byars who descended
froma a Ray born just before 1800 in VA. The female surnames don't
follow making conclusions of origin very difficult.

Read about YDNA and mtDNA and learn what they can and can't tell you.

Below is one paper I wrote based on my research. The data are not
original with me - just what this amateur understood from what he
read. I suggest you research more.

DNA, or deoxyribonucleic acid, is the hereditary material in humans
and almost all other organisms. Nearly every cell in a person's body
has the same DNA. Most DNA is located in the cell nucleus (where it is
called nuclear DNA), but a small amount of DNA can also be found in
the mitochondria (where it is called mitochondrial DNA or mtDNA).
The information in DNA is stored as a code made up of four chemical
bases: adenine (A), guanine (G), cytosine (C), and thymine (T). Human
DNA consists of about 3 billion bases, and more than 99 percent of
those bases are the same in all people. The order, or sequence, of
these bases determines the information available for building and
maintaining an organism, similar to the way in which letters of the
alphabet appear in a certain order to form words and sentences.
DNA bases pair up with each other, A with T and C with G, to form
units called base pairs. Each base is also attached to a sugar
molecule and a phosphate molecule. Together, a base, sugar, and
phosphate are called a nucleotide. Nucleotides are arranged in two
long strands that form a spiral called a double helix. The structure
of the double helix is somewhat like a ladder, with the base pairs
forming the ladder's rungs and the sugar and phosphate molecules
forming the vertical sidepieces of the ladder.
An important property of DNA is that it can replicate, or make copies
of itself. Each strand of DNA in the double helix can serve as a
pattern for duplicating the sequence of bases. This is critical when
cells divide because each new cell needs to have an exact copy of the
DNA present in the old cell.

"mtDNA Tests - Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) is contained in the cytoplasm
of the cell, rather than the nucleus. This type of DNA is passed by a
mother to both male and female offspring without any mixing, so your
mtDNA is the same as your mother's mtDNA, which is the same as her
mother's mtDNA. mtDNA changes very slowly so it cannot determine close
relationships as well as it can determine general relatedness. If two
people have an exact match in their mtDNA, then there is a very good
chance they share a common maternal ancestor, but it is hard to
determine if this is a recent ancestor or one who lived hundreds of
years ago. It is important to keep in mind with this test."

A Y chromosome DNA test (Y-DNA test) is a genealogical DNA test which
is used to explore a man's patrilineal or direct father's-line
ancestry. The Y chromosome, like the patrilineal surname, passes down
virtually unchanged from father to son. Every now and then occasional
mistakes in the copying process occur, and these mutations can be used
to estimate the time frame in which the two individuals share a most
recent common ancestor or MRCA. If their test results are a perfect or
nearly perfect match, they are related within a genealogical time
frame. Each person can then look at the other's father-line
information, typically the names of each patrilineal ancestor and his
spouse, together with the dates and places of their marriage and of
both spouses' births and deaths. The two matched persons may find a
common ancestor or MRCA, as well as whatever information the other
already has about their joint patriline or father's line prior to the
MRCA. Y-DNA tests are typically co-ordinated in a surname DNA project.
And each receives the other's contact information if the other chose
to allow this. Women who wish to determine their direct paternal DNA
ancestry can ask their father, brother, paternal uncle, paternal
grandfather, or a cousin who shares the same surname lineage (the same
Y-DNA) to take a test for them. 

Tiny chemical markers on the Y chromosome create a distinctive
pattern, known as a haplotype, which distinguishes one male lineage
from another. Shared markers can indicate relatedness between two men,
though not the exact degree of the relationship. Y chromosome testing
is most often used by individuals with the same last name to learn if
they share a common ancestor. Haplogroup R is the phylogenetic name of
a major clade of Human Y-chromosome DNA haplogroups. In other words,
it is a way of grouping a significant part of all modern men according
to a shared male-line ancestor. It is common in many parts of Eurasia
and is frequently discussed in human population genetics and genetic
genealogy. One sub-clade (branch) of R, currently designated R1a1a, is
much more common than the others in all major geographical regions.
R1a1a, defined by the SNP mutation M17 or R-M198, is particularly
common in a large region extending from South Asia and Southern
Siberia to Central Europe and Scandinavia. Names of SNP mutations can
also be used to name clades or haplogroups.

Much of the above is quotes but I don't want to influence your reading
sources.

Hugh

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Subject: Re: Anonymous ancestry DNA chat
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Subject: Re: Anonymous ancestry DNA chat
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